Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 3

[aCultureWarrior]

Barbarian observes, regarding scientific research cited:
Gave you a cite for it. Did you know you could look it up directly?

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I did it for others. I must say that I'm surprised that your link didn't come from The Advocate .

Never heard of it. If you start cruising advocacy websites for scientific evidence, you're going to be continuously misled. No matter which advocacy.

You never heard of the popular fag rag that gave your liberal pope their most prestigious award?

You secular Catholics must be proud of Frankie.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Then you understand that same sex desires can be changed.

People are pretty plastic in behavior. But I notice no one's come up with anything that has anything remotely like a system that works in changing orientation. You can change behavior, of course. Straight guys in prison, for example. But they revert to straight when they leave.

You haven't been paying attention in class when it comes to therapy that helps those with homosexual desires rid themselves of them nor when I talked about homosexuality in a prison setting.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4252852&postcount=6215

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Tell us that those people who have changed their same sex desires either through spiritual guidance or secular therapy are just a bunch of LIARS! LIARS! LIARS! barbarian.

Barbarian observes:
You mean like the programs once pushed by Exodus International? What do they say about it?

Exodus International (1978): The ministry selected 30 of their 800 members as having changed from exclusively homosexual to exclusively heterosexual in orientation. Two outside psychiatrists interviewed the 30 and found that only three were actually heterosexual.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
So 3 were able to change?

Not quite four percent, if the psychiatrists got it right.

So much for your recent study on homosexuality being "permanent".

Also remember that we're in a society where perversion is promoted and glamourized, so those brave men and women who seek SOCE therapy aren't encouraged by society to seek change.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I feel sorry for Alan Chambers, undoubtedly he was passing by a public restroom toilet stall one day and his past life got the best of him.

Sorry, I don't get that. What is it about public restrooms for you guys?

There you go playing naïve again barbarian. Surely you're aware that part of the 'gay' culture is to have sex where normal people go to dispose of body waste?

Quote: Originally posted by a CultureWarrior
That being said: Shall we discuss the numerous other EX Gay organizations that still exist and still are helping people overcome homosexual desires?

Yep. Show us some checkable research that shows something actually works.

Why post numbers when you can hear it from people themselves:

For now, 200 of them.

200 EXhomosexual video testimonies
http://www.gcmwatch.com/exhomosexual-videos

On a side note: I must say barbarian, it is nice when you don't incessantly promote the legalization of incest (the sexual anarchists "new frontier").

 

[alwight]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
As I've mentioned many times before Al, it's so very important for the LGBTQueer movement to find that elusive 'gay' gene for the simple fact that without it there would be no justification for HATE CRIME LEGISLATION (if homosexuality is indeed a changeable behavior, then special protection isn't needed for those who choose not to change).

I think somewhat typically you rather choose to miss the actual point aCW.
Of course acting on one's innate sexuality is something that conscious choice can negate unless perhaps someone has no mental capacity for self restraint.
The real point here though is whether those with same sex desires actually should be controlling them in that way.
If gay people have no particular overriding religious concerns then why on earth should they have to abstain from their particular sexuality if it only involves other consenting adults?
Because you say they should?
Because someone else's religion says they should?
Because some people are recklessly unsafe with their sexual activities?

I think you'll find aCW, that many active and reasonably responsible gay people won't think that sort of thing and your claimed absolute morality comes even remotely close to good enough reasoning why they should have to desist from what they think comes naturally.

A guy who goes by the name of "Wal Ford" wrote an interesting article on Facebook acknowledging what I and many others have said:

"Because if homosexuality is not a preference, a sexual dysfunction/fetish, an explicit violation of religious principles or even an acquired taste, then what one does in bed and with whom one does it attains the legal status of a protected demographic -- and as such, enjoys the same accord as any ethnic group [that is designated as Victim]."
https://www.facebook.com/wralford/posts/10152730299641933

Hence the reason the LGBTQueer movement (as seen in their playbook "After the Ball: How America will conquer it's fear and hatred of gays in the 90's") always plays the victim, when in reality they are the aggressor.

I simply think that whatever two people choose to do in bed in private together, even if they are the same gender, is something for other people to just butt out of and mind their own business instead.

The particular activists from either side will no doubt continue to argue the toss while the other side does the same. Clearly in the past homosexuals have been the ones victimised, not the Christian or "righteous" majority.
If some religious folk these days don't like getting back what they have dished out to gay people in the past then oh dear, how sad, never mind, get used to it. lain:

Btw "Walford" is a fictitious area of London in the BBC soap "Eastenders", since you might not be an avid fan aCW. I don't really watch it myself but they often have gay characters and story lines I believe, where gay people are just part of society, far fetched or what? :shocked:

 

[TracerBullet]

So 3 were able to change?

that is an unsupported assumption. they found three of the people involved in the study conducted by Exodus international were heterosexual. No report on is they had always been so

Quote: Originally posted by a CultureWarrior
That being said: Shall we discuss the numerous other EX Gay organizations that still exist and still are helping people overcome homosexual desires?

by all means. We can start by looking at their definition of "success" and then look at their statistics of those in their program before looking at the evidence for their theoretical model of orientation.

Oh wait...No ex-gay organization has ever published any of these things

 

[TracerBullet]

Why post numbers when you can hear it from people themselves:

For now, 200 of them.

200 EXhomosexual video testimonies
http://www.gcmwatch.com/exhomosexual-videos

and here are 250 testimonies of people abducted by aliens

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
As I've mentioned many times before Al, it's so very important for the LGBTQueer movement to find that elusive 'gay' gene for the simple fact that without it there would be no justification for HATE CRIME LEGISLATION (if homosexuality is indeed a changeable behavior, then special protection isn't needed for those who choose not to change).

I think somewhat typically you rather choose to miss the actual point aCW.

The point is this Al: As a political movement, Hate Crime legislation, which was created for and backed by the LGBTQueer movement, is necessary to quash any opposition to LGBTQueer supposed "rights". We've seen that recently in places like Indiana and I've covered it extensively throughout this 3 part thread, in fact I dedicated the first segment in Part 1 to it: "Silencing the Christians".

Of course acting on one's innate sexuality is something that conscious choice can negate unless perhaps someone has no mental capacity for self restraint.

A couple of pages ago you were saying that homosexual desires "just happen"; which is it Al, are people born with same sex desires (i.e. they're innate) or do they "just happen" sometime during one's development in the womb or later in life?

The real point here though is whether those with same sex desires actually should be controlling them in that way.
If gay people have no particular overriding religious concerns then why on earth should they have to abstain from their particular sexuality if it only involves other consenting adults?
Because you say they should?
Because someone else's religion says they should?
Because some people are recklessly unsafe with their sexual activities?

This 3 part thread has not only shown how destructive homosexual behavior is to individuals that partake in it, but how destructive it's been to society since decriminalization and the LGBTQueer movement and their agenda has been able to march through our society like the jackbooted thugs that they are.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
So 3 were able to change?

that is an unsupported assumption. they found three of the people involved in the study conducted by Exodus international were heterosexual. No report on is they had always been so

Let's learn more about Exodus International shall we?

"Exodus International was a non-profit, interdenominational ex-gay Christian umbrella network connecting organizations that sought to help people who wished to limit their homosexual desires. It was founded in 1976, but the umbrella organization ceased activities in June 2013. The closure of the umbrella organization had no direct impact on the member ministries which continue to operate. Many have joined together to form two new networks; while others continue to operate independently.[3]

Exodus International asserted that reorientation of same-sex attraction is possible,[4] but warned its members not to go to counselors who claim they could help eliminate all attractions to the same gender.[5] It did not conduct clinical treatment but held the position that, "reparative therapy - a holistic, counseling approach to addressing unwanted same-sex attraction - can be a beneficial tool."[6] Techniques could "include abstinence, lessening of homosexual temptations, strengthening their sense of masculine or feminine identity, correcting distorted styles of relating with members of the same and opposite gender."[7]

Founded in 1976, Exodus was an umbrella organization which grew to include over 250 local ministries in the United States and Canada and over 150 ministries in 17 other countries.[8] Although Exodus was formally an interdenominational Christian entity, it was most closely associated with Protestant and evangelical denominations. The Exodus Global Alliance
http://exodusglobalalliance.org/

was formed out of Exodus International in 1995 and continues to operate in support of Exodus networks outside of the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International

So Exodus International existed for 37 years and had over 250 local ministries in the United States and Canada and over 150 ministries in 17 other countries and Exodus Global Alliance still is going strong outside of the US and your LGBTQueer/NAMBLA movement claims that few people were/are helped by therapy?


Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by a CultureWarrior
That being said: Shall we discuss the numerous other EX Gay organizations that still exist and still are helping people overcome homosexual desires?

by all means. We can start by looking at their definition of "success" and then look at their statistics of those in their program before looking at the evidence for their theoretical model of orientation.

Success is a subjective term, i.e. it depends on what the person who partakes in the therapy wants out of it. When it comes to homosexuality, some want to rid themselves of all unnatural desires, while others simply want to rid themselves of engaging in an unnatural disease ridden behavior.

I'd recommend that you review all 250 testimonies on the GCW website, but you're probably already green with envy that so many people have been able to change, but not you.
http://www.gcmwatch.com/exhomosexual-videos

Oh wait...No ex-gay organization has ever published any of these things

Do other organizations that exist to help people overcome unwanted behaviors and desires (Alcoholics Anonymous, Pornaddiction.com, etc.) publish their results?

I want to talk more about the former head of Exodus International: Alan Chambers and his ever so twisted view of Christianity.

Time for a Change of Leadership at Exodus?
Alan Chambers Assures “Gay Christians” That Unrepentant Homosexual Practice Is No Barrier to Salvation … among Other Gospel Distortions and Bad Moves
http://www.robgagnon.net/articles/homosexAlanChambersAtlanticInterview.pdf

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4300979&postcount=7485

Care to engage in that discussion TB?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

and here are 250 testimonies of people abducted by aliens

Here's another one of the 200 testimonies by EX homosexuals.
http://www.gcmwatch.com/exhomosexual-videos

Note what Thomas Hunter says about being physically abused (raped by a Scout Master) as a child and growing up in a fatherless home at the 5:20 minute mark.

What causes homosexual desire?

If homosexual impulses are not inherited, what kinds of influences do cause strong homosexual desires? No one answer is acceptable to all researchers in the field. Important factors, however, seem to fall into four categories. As with so many other odd sexual proclivities, males appear especially susceptible:


1. Homosexual experience:
•any homosexual experience in childhood, especially if it is a first sexual experience or with an adult
•any homosexual contact with an adult, particularly with a relative or authority figure (in a random survey, 5% of adult homosexuals vs 0.8% of heterosexuals reported childhood sexual involvements with elementary or secondary school teachers (5).

2. Family abnormality, including the following:
•a dominant, possessive, or rejecting mother
•an absent, distant, or rejecting father
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3393262&postcount=17

 

[Quetzal]

Note what Thomas Hunter says about being physically abused (raped by a Scout Master) as a child and growing up in a fatherless home at the 5:20 minute mark.

What causes homosexual desire?

If homosexual impulses are not inherited, what kinds of influences do cause strong homosexual desires? No one answer is acceptable to all researchers in the field. Important factors, however, seem to fall into four categories. As with so many other odd sexual proclivities, males appear especially susceptible:


1. Homosexual experience:
•any homosexual experience in childhood, especially if it is a first sexual experience or with an adult
•any homosexual contact with an adult, particularly with a relative or authority figure (in a random survey, 5% of adult homosexuals vs 0.8% of heterosexuals reported childhood sexual involvements with elementary or secondary school teachers (5).

2. Family abnormality, including the following:
•a dominant, possessive, or rejecting mother
•an absent, distant, or rejecting father
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3393262&postcount=17

The problem with this is that there is so a lot more evidence to the contrary conducted by more reputable parties. If I want information on something like this, I tend to look for studies done by multiple experts or universities. Not some random guy on YouTube.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

The problem with this is that there is so a lot more evidence to the contrary conducted by more reputable parties. If I want information on something like this, I tend to look for studies done by multiple experts or universities.

I've exposed those "reputable parties" and "experts" throughout this 3 part thread.

Frank Kameny and his fellow homosexual activists of the American Psychiatric Association

Not some random guy on YouTube.

Oh gullible me, I actually believe a guy when he is brave enough to go public and share why he had homosexual desires that started as a boy and later engaged in them as a teen and adult and what he did to overcome them.

 

[TracerBullet]

Let's learn more about Exodus International shall we?

"Exodus International was a non-profit, interdenominational ex-gay Christian umbrella network connecting organizations that sought to help people who wished to limit their homosexual desires. It was founded in 1976, but the umbrella organization ceased activities in June 2013. The closure of the umbrella organization had no direct impact on the member ministries which continue to operate. Many have joined together to form two new networks; while others continue to operate independently.[3]

Exodus International asserted that reorientation of same-sex attraction is possible,[4] but warned its members not to go to counselors who claim they could help eliminate all attractions to the same gender.[5] It did not conduct clinical treatment but held the position that, "reparative therapy - a holistic, counseling approach to addressing unwanted same-sex attraction - can be a beneficial tool."[6] Techniques could "include abstinence, lessening of homosexual temptations, strengthening their sense of masculine or feminine identity, correcting distorted styles of relating with members of the same and opposite gender."[7]

Founded in 1976, Exodus was an umbrella organization which grew to include over 250 local ministries in the United States and Canada and over 150 ministries in 17 other countries.[8] Although Exodus was formally an interdenominational Christian entity, it was most closely associated with Protestant and evangelical denominations. The Exodus Global Alliance
http://exodusglobalalliance.org/

was formed out of Exodus International in 1995 and continues to operate in support of Exodus networks outside of the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International

So Exodus International existed for 37 years and had over 250 local ministries in the United States and Canada and over 150 ministries in 17 other countries and Exodus Global Alliance still is going strong outside of the US and your LGBTQueer/NAMBLA movement claims that few people were/are helped by therapy?

they shut down after admitting that reparative therapy is a fraud and apologized for the harm they caused...what else is there to know

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDiYeJ_bsQo

Success is a subjective term, i.e. it depends on what the person who partakes in the therapy wants out of it. When it comes to homosexuality, some want to rid themselves of all unnatural desires, while others simply want to rid themselves of engaging in an unnatural disease ridden behavior.

and it is a term reparative therapists refuse to define for their own work.

I'd recommend that you review all 250 testimonies on the GCW website, but you're probably already green with envy that so many people have been able to change, but not you.

To busy reviewing all the testimonies from people who acknowledge the fact they were abducted by UFO's. With so many testimonies it must be true

Do other organizations that exist to help people overcome unwanted behaviors and desires (Alcoholics Anonymous, Pornaddiction.com, etc.) publish their results?

AA doesn't claim to be a therapy. And yes AA has published statistics and maintains records for researches.

Care to engage in that discussion TB?

of course

 

[alwight]

The point is this Al: As a political movement, Hate Crime legislation, which was created for and backed by the LGBTQueer movement, is necessary to quash any opposition to LGBTQueer supposed "rights". We've seen that recently in places like Indiana and I've covered it extensively throughout this 3 part thread, in fact I dedicated the first segment in Part 1 to it: "Silencing the Christians".

Actually I'm not particularly worried aCW if your Christian backed right wing homophobic organisation has met with an opposition capable of using whatever means are at their disposal. I think the expression is "reaping what you sow". After all, you want them locked up, right? Do you expect them to feel good about that?

A couple of pages ago you were saying that homosexual desires "just happen"; which is it Al, are people born with same sex desires (i.e. they're innate) or do they "just happen" sometime during one's development in the womb or later in life?

I realise that you aren't the sharpest tool in the box aCW, but it really isn't that difficult. :nono:
There are none so blind as those who will not see perhaps?

I don't really know here if you are simply being deliberately obtuse or perhaps that you genuinely don't understand the difference between consciously not acting on an innate sexuality and the notion that a sexual orientation can somehow be eradicated or turned into the opposite one. Please do try to clarify.

If I agree that homosexuals can, and on occasion actually do, consciously change their behaviour or simply forgo a sex life altogether, it isn't also saying that I accept that they no longer have exactly the same innate sexual desires they had before.
In fact I would be very surprised indeed if any exclusively gay person has ever genuinely succeeded in mentally converting to being exclusively mentally heterosexuality, even if their partner is now of the opposite gender.
I simply don't believe any devoutly Christian "converted" gay person if they try to claim otherwise because they are imo perhaps rather more concerned with adhering to their religious beliefs and doctrine than anything else. lain:

 

[TracerBullet]

1. Homosexual experience:
•any homosexual experience in childhood, especially if it is a first sexual experience or with an adult
•any homosexual contact with an adult, particularly with a relative or authority figure (in a random survey, 5% of adult homosexuals vs 0.8% of heterosexuals reported childhood sexual involvements with elementary or secondary school teachers (5).

more of the fake claims of Paul Cameron...Cameron was expelled from the APA when he was caught making up fake data...This claim comes from that very same fake data.

 

[IHaveGodInMe]

God Himself makes the Law and the faggots oppose the Law and brake it with their ways. This is clear as a sky is blue! each:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Let's learn more about Exodus International shall we?

"Exodus International was a non-profit, interdenominational ex-gay Christian umbrella network connecting organizations that sought to help people who wished to limit their homosexual desires. It was founded in 1976, but the umbrella organization ceased activities in June 2013. The closure of the umbrella organization had no direct impact on the member ministries which continue to operate. Many have joined together to form two new networks; while others continue to operate independently.[3]

Exodus International asserted that reorientation of same-sex attraction is possible,[4] but warned its members not to go to counselors who claim they could help eliminate all attractions to the same gender.[5] It did not conduct clinical treatment but held the position that, "reparative therapy - a holistic, counseling approach to addressing unwanted same-sex attraction - can be a beneficial tool."[6] Techniques could "include abstinence, lessening of homosexual temptations, strengthening their sense of masculine or feminine identity, correcting distorted styles of relating with members of the same and opposite gender."[7]

Founded in 1976, Exodus was an umbrella organization which grew to include over 250 local ministries in the United States and Canada and over 150 ministries in 17 other countries.[8] Although Exodus was formally an interdenominational Christian entity, it was most closely associated with Protestant and evangelical denominations. The Exodus Global Alliance
http://exodusglobalalliance.org/

was formed out of Exodus International in 1995 and continues to operate in support of Exodus networks outside of the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International

So Exodus International existed for 37 years and had over 250 local ministries in the United States and Canada and over 150 ministries in 17 other countries and Exodus Global Alliance still is going strong outside of the US and your LGBTQueer/NAMBLA movement claims that few people were/are helped by therapy?

they shut down after admitting that reparative therapy is a fraud and apologized for the harm they caused...what else is there to know

What you really mean TB is that an organization that successfully operated for 37 years and had over 250 local ministries in the US and Canada and over 150 ministries in 17 other countries and still operates under the name of "Exodus Global Alliance" shut down after intense pressure from the LGBTQueer/NAMBLA movement and it's supposed leader (Alan Chambers) realized that since therapy didn't work for him, it couldn't have worked for anyone else?

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Success is a subjective term, i.e. it depends on what the person who partakes in the therapy wants out of it. When it comes to homosexuality, some want to rid themselves of all unnatural desires, while others simply want to rid themselves of engaging in an unnatural disease ridden behavior.

and it is a term reparative therapists refuse to define for their own work.

Again, success is defined by what the patient wants out of the therapy.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I'd recommend that you review all 250 testimonies on the GCW website, but you're probably already green with envy that so many people have been able to change, but not you.

To busy reviewing all the testimonies from people who acknowledge the fact they were abducted by UFO's. With so many testimonies it must be true

I just can't imagine the pain that you're going through TB when you hear about all of those people who have successfully changed their desires and behavior. Tell us a little bit about your unsuccessful attempts in doing so and why you just didn't keep on trying until you found the right therapy.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Do other organizations that exist to help people overcome unwanted behaviors and desires (Alcoholics Anonymous, Pornaddiction.com, etc.) publish their results?

AA doesn't claim to be a therapy.

What would you call an organization that attempts to help people overcome destructive behaviors and unwanted desires?

And yes AA has published statistics and maintains records for researches.

As has the previous head of NARTH, Dr. Joseph Nicolosi
http://josephnicolosi.com/


Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Care to engage in that discussion TB?

of course

Good. Let's start off by talking about how the former head of the largest homosexual therapy organization in the world (Alan Chambers) doesn't think repentance of sin is something that needs to be done by those who engage in homosexual behavior. What are your thoughts on that subject TB?

http://www.robgagnon.net/articles/homosexAlanChambersAtlanticInterview.pdf

 

[IHaveGodInMe]

As has the previous head of NARTH, Dr. Joseph Nicolosi
http://josephnicolosi.com/

Yes brother! I know of this man as well and his hand in the homosexual agenda that corrupts us. Until we stop them from spreading we can never regain God's favor as a nation! each:

http://www.robgagnon.net/articles/homosexAlanChambersAtlanticInterview.pdf

You can see how homosexual he is in this picture... faggot.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
The point is this Al: As a political movement, Hate Crime legislation, which was created for and backed by the LGBTQueer movement, is necessary to quash any opposition to LGBTQueer supposed "rights". We've seen that recently in places like Indiana and I've covered it extensively throughout this 3 part thread, in fact I dedicated the first segment in Part 1 to it: "Silencing the Christians".

Actually I'm not particularly worried aCW if your Christian backed right wing homophobic organisation has met with an opposition capable of using whatever means are at their disposal. I think the expression is "reaping what you sow". After all, you want them locked up, right? Do you expect them to feel good about that?

Have I mentioned that I like it when you're honest about the culture war Al? Now keep that honesty for another minute and admit that one side is going to win and the other side is going to lose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
A couple of pages ago you were saying that homosexual desires "just happen"; which is it Al, are people born with same sex desires (i.e. they're innate) or do they "just happen" sometime during one's development in the womb or later in life?

I realise that you aren't the sharpest tool in the box aCW, but it really isn't that difficult.
There are none so blind as those who will not see perhaps?

And here I was so looking forward to learning about the "just happens" gene Al.

Now that Al has gotten his latest rant out of his system: back later with a very revealing video by Ryan Sorba (you remember Ryan Sorba, he was attempting to give a speech on the "Born Gay Hoax" at Smith College when a bunch of tolerant loving homosexual activists decided otherwise).

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
As has the previous head of NARTH, Dr. Joseph Nicolosi
http://josephnicolosi.com/

Yes brother! I know of this man as well and his hand in the homosexual agenda that corrupts us...

I smell a fraud.

 

[IHaveGodInMe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
As has the previous head of NARTH, Dr. Joseph Nicolosi
http://josephnicolosi.com/



I smell a fraud.

Amen.

I don't think he's a fraud. Just mislead. It takes the knowledge of God to keep from straying. each:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Amen.

I don't think he's a fraud. Just mislead. It takes the knowledge of God to keep from straying. each:

I was talking about you. How has Dr. Joseph Nicolosi had "his hand in the homosexual agenda that corrupts us"?

 

[IHaveGodInMe]

I was talking about you. How has Dr. Joseph Nicolosi had "his hand in the homosexual agenda that corrupts us"?

How many times have you read the Bible? I have read it five times. Yet you call me a fraud?

Why are you defending homosexuals and saying you're of God? Step aside and let us throw stones upon the homosexual. This is His Will.