Why do some women want to abort their children?

Town Heretic

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The reasoning is irrelevant.
I'd love to have seen you apply that philosophy to a term paper.

Women have the right to choose whether or not to carry a pregnancy through to term,
Up to a point, yes. Whether it's a right they should have is another thing.

and that right has been bolstered by the strength of law.
Created, not bolstered. Unless by right you only mean they could always commit an act without regard to the law or any particular moral code.

No one, male or female, has the right to take that choice away from them.
That's just wrong headed, Buzz. What happened to some people in WWII was legal. The German state gave itself the right to do it. It doesn't follow that ability equals the actual right or that taking away that choice was or in this case is wrong.

All the appeals to emotion in the world are nothing compared to a woman's fundamental right to decide whether or not to give birth.
You should take a look at my argument. It's not rooted in emotion at all, though I don't have a problem with anyone feeling strongly on the point. I'd be concerned if they didn't.

Medical advances have freed women from the prison of pregnancy,
Medical advances have eliminated the need for women to risk a state they don't want to experience.

when in yesteryear a victim of rape or a forced marriage (or rape within an ordinary marriage) would be forced by limitations in scientific knowledge to carry her pregnancy to full term, even if it meant she died from a tubal ligation, uteran toxicity, or simply died in childbirth.
I certainly wouldn't disagree that there are any number of horrible beginnings for a sliver of most pregnancies or that there aren't dangers inherent in any...and I'd note a woman has the same right to self defense that you do.

Whether you agree with the reasoning or the choice is irrelevant.
That's simply not true. It was the agreement of others that provided her the legal means, by way of.

She has the right to make the choice, has always had the right if not the ability, and will always have the right and the ability no matter what pastors or politicians vomit from their pulpits on the subject.
Simply not true, again, unless you conflate the ability to do or have a thing done without regard for law or code. Vomit? I think you're leaning to heavily into the emotional on the point, Buzz.
 

PureX

Well-known member
I don't believe you have to think women are stupid to understand that people inclined to a thing will find that distance comforting and that society can grease the wheels of the decision making process by minimizing everything short of the choice, which then becomes the truly important thing, sadly.
That "grease" can help people slide in any direction. One might easily view religion as a "grease" that helps people slide toward judgment, condemnation, and the desire to to see other people punished for their "sins", for example.

What I noted with that was that I live in an area where that sort of shaming would be most likely to occur and it simply isn't on the plate. Maybe within some families, but as a rule or concerning social stigma, no.
Well, you are fooling yourself. Because I have little doubt that your community disdains young single mothers (and their need of public support) just as much as any other community in America, does. And being in a "red state" what will be all the more true. Not to mention the religious inclination to view sex outside of wedlock as a sin, and therefor to view young single mothers as easily identifiable "sinners", being punished for their sins by having to endure the consequences.

I don't doubt it happens. But so does nearly anything that's possible. The rule is another matter.
How much the shaming "rules" is not the issue. The issue is that it does occur, regularly enough that women have died on a regular basis from back-alley abortions and killed their babies in secret births, trying to avoid it. Thus showing just how powerful that sort of shaming, is.

That's why shotgun weddings are mostly nothing more than a tale told to the next generation. There's no feeling that marriage is a requirement or that a child out of wedlock is a particularly big deal among the majority.
The truth be told; "shotgun weddings" are not the shammer's first choice in the face of the young, pregnant, female. The shame and stress and difficulty of the pregnancy, itself, is their first choice of recourse. Because they want to see the "hussy" punished, through her difficult circumstances, for her wanton behavior.

If you really listen closely to these religious conservatives when they talk about women who get pregnant out of wedlock, you will hear the essence of their reaction. And that is that she should be punished for having sex without God's permission (or their permission, it's all the same, to them). That's the real reason why many of them are so dead-set against abortion when they are so easily inclined to end the lives of other human beings in most other instances. They are really far more concerned about punishing the sinner than they are about saving human lives.
 
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Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
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You would be amazed at what gets posted in the comments section at Yahoo News. I looked close at baseball bats and tried to figure how they were used and was horrified both ways.

An interesting aspect to add to your thread would be ... why do men wish to have their unborn babies aborted? IMO, the most important emotional support and positive reinforcement an already emotional pregnant woman can have is that of her unborn baby's father.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
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That "grease" can help people slide in any direction.
Freedom allows movement in any direction. But giving someone the means to make emotional distance easier and couching it in terms that denies something fundamental about the process makes that choice easier and more likely.

Well, you are fooling yourself. Because I have little doubt that your community disdains
You know my community better, do you? Remarkable. I omit the rest of that hubris wrapped in assumption.

How much the shaming "rules" is not the issue.
It really is within the point of its impact, which was my point. :plain:

The issue is that it does occur, regularly enough that women have died on a regular basis from back-alley abortions and killed their babies in secret births, trying to avoid it. Thus showing just how powerful that sort of shaming, is.
Who knows what regularly enough means. It's tragic when it happens.

The truth be told; "shotgun weddings" are not the shammer's first choice in the face of the young, pregnant, female.
You should do a little research on the point. They absolutely were when public shame attended the outcome...When unwed mothers were routinely shamed and the stigma attached it was a busy business. These days? These days we have celebrities like Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russel and idealized sports heroes like Brady with a baby here and a baby there. It's a different world. Tom and Goldie would have been ruined by the scandal attached to what is now viewed with a collective shrug. It would be a silly notion to assume that indifference isn't part of the larger cultural landscape, that it isn't reflected there.

If you really listen closely to these religious conservatives when they talk about women who get pregnant out of wedlock, you will hear the essence of their reaction.
I think there are two sorts or religious responses and for the most part the response is compassion mingled with regret aimed at the life choices.

And that is that she should be punished for having sex without God's permission (or their permission, it's all the same, to them). That's the real reason why many of them are so dead-set against abortion when they are so easily inclined to end the lives of other human beings in most other instances. They are really far more concerned about punishing the sinner than they are about saving human lives.
All I hear in that noise is how much contempt and hostility you have toward an impression of conservative Christians. I don't think you see the larger part of them at all, that you focus on a few angry voices and rest your bias there...it's not an argument I'm interested in because I don't believe that you or anyone can be reasoned out of a position that isn't the product of reason or sustained by it.
 

katiecrna

New member
I think that "brutally murder their own child" is a bit of a stretch. Women gets abortions because they think completely different than you. It's not right or wrong it's just different.
What you think of as a child, they see it as a fetus, or even a cluster of cells.
What you see as murder, they see it as preventing a lifetime of struggle of that potential baby.

These women who get abortions are not evil people. They truly believe they are helping that baby by not allowing it to ever be born, even though that might sound super twisted to you.
 

serpentdove

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Banned
I'm not a woman, and so, I don't know what it's like to have a child and then raise it. From a males perspective, it's baffling that a person would brutally murder their own child, no matter what kind of ghetto life you live or what the state of the world is.

The following is a readers comment on Yahoo News about trumps recent abortion comments:



"When there is an abortion now it is performed by a certified doctor who creates a safe and clean environment for the pregnant woman. When the woman does finally have a child, the child is brought up without resent and in a better financial state than an unwanted child.
If abortion is banned, then instead of doctors, it will be unclean black market locations performing abortions, or even worse, baseball bats. Or, if the woman does have the child, she may throw it into the woods to die. She may get depressed from the kid she didn't want and commit suicide rather than care for it, or abuse it.
Whether you believe a fetus is alive or not, abortions will happen. So the question becomes - do you value the life and the safety of the mother or not?"

This kind of thinking is horrifying.
It is (Pr 8:36). You're going to lynch a black so give him a clean rope. :idunno: You're going to gas a Jew so provide him a friendly pesticide. :dizzy:
 

patrick jane

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I think that "brutally murder their own child" is a bit of a stretch. Women gets abortions because they think completely different than you. It's not right or wrong it's just different.
What you think of as a child, they see it as a fetus, or even a cluster of cells.
What you see as murder, they see it as preventing a lifetime of struggle of that potential baby.

These women who get abortions are not evil people. They truly believe they are helping that baby by not allowing it to ever be born, even though that might sound super twisted to you.
It is super twisted -

Jeremiah 1:5 KJV -
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
I know this sounds terrible, but it's true . Abortion has actually PREVENTED an enormous amount of child abuse . And child malnutrition . And poverty and crime .
Because if those children HAD been born, they would have grown up poor, hungry, malnourished, physical and sexually abused , poorly educated , denied a chance to earn a decent living once they grew up etc. You can ban me for saying this, but it's true .
Maybe that wouldn't be the case if you accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).
 

Rusha

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An interesting aspect to add to your thread would be ... why do men wish to have their unborn babies aborted? IMO, the most important emotional support and positive reinforcement an already emotional pregnant woman can have is that of her unborn baby's father.

:thumb:

*and family.

Absolutely ... pregnant women need emotional support both during the pregnancy and after giving birth.

They need it their whole life :rotfl:

There are plenty of other threads for you to go off topic and trash women. This particular thread is to discuss the reasons for abortion.
 

katiecrna

New member
Most people who get abortions are not as educated, and as blessed as the typical member of TAM and these forums. They also have a very very bad family situation that luckily most of us never experienced.

The reason why people don't understand something (I.e. How women can have abortions), is because they are ignorant. I don't say this to be mean but it's the truth. You don't have to agree with something to understand it. I 100% understand why women would get an abortion. I am a nurse anesthetist and I have taken care of women who have gotten abortions, I have worked with underprivileged, underserved populations and have gotten to know some of these women that have it so bad it breaks my heart that anyone would judge them or be unkind to them.
You do not have to agree to understand why someone does something. It's called empathy. We all need to take our judgmental hats off and really try to understand these women and learn how to love and serve them. Just like Jesus walked with the sinners. These people need the most love.
 

ClimateSanity

New member
An interesting aspect to add to your thread would be ... why do men wish to have their unborn babies aborted? IMO, the most important emotional support and positive reinforcement an already emotional pregnant woman can have is that of her unborn baby's father.

These men want no responsibility. They are not ready to be a father and all that entails. A woman will have her life completely changed. Perhaps, she isn't receiving support as you say...the father is gone. Perhaps she cannot imagine ever living with the father. These are all legitimate concerns.

Adoption satisfies all of these fears. Why would a woman refuse adoption?

If an abortion happens, most likely, both parties are not willing to be responsible for their actions.
 

ClimateSanity

New member
Most people who get abortions are not as educated, and as blessed as the typical member of TAM and these forums. They also have a very very bad family situation that luckily most of us never experienced.

The reason why people don't understand something (I.e. How women can have abortions), is because they are ignorant. I don't say this to be mean but it's the truth. You don't have to agree with something to understand it. I 100% understand why women would get an abortion. I am a nurse anesthetist and I have taken care of women who have gotten abortions, I have worked with underprivileged, underserved populations and have gotten to know some of these women that have it so bad it breaks my heart that anyone would judge them or be unkind to them.
You do not have to agree to understand why someone does something. It's called empathy. We all need to take our judgmental hats off and really try to understand these women and learn how to love and serve them. Just like Jesus walked with the sinners. These people need the most love.

If you understand it completely, why not share with us your insight?
 
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