why do liberals ALWAYS take the side of the vile?

[Christian Liberty]

Neither would I. But I'm sure you're convinced paying your taxes is the same thing as someone putting a gun to your head.

Wrong. FORCING PEOPLE to pay taxes is putting a gun to their head. Think this through logically. Think about what happens if you don't pay.

Also, I don't care for Ayn Rand, and I think those who voluntarily give to charity are acting far more morally than those who don't. I'm not a Randian. I am a Christian.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I think the mandatory part is what trips a lot of people up. I don't have any problem with it. It's the mandatory part that makes it work. Less than a dollar per hour of my earnings is a small price to pay not to have my grandparents starving to death or be forced to move in with my aunts and uncles (hypothetical, as I don't have any living grandparents, but their SS checks did exactly this while they were with us).

I agree with you, its a small price to pay and you should be willing to do that rather than let them starve. The question is whether its OK to force other people to be generous. Granite clearly says HE wouldn't force people to be generous, but he not only has no problem with "government" doing so, but he actually thinks arguing otherwise is equivalent to wanting people to starve to death. So basically, you both are elevating this one group of people and saying they don't have to play by the same moral rules as the rest of us. At least you guys are atheists so you'd have no consistent basis to say that would be wrong. But realize that I'm not going from a godless framework.

 

[Granite]

I agree with you, its a small price to pay and you should be willing to do that rather than let them starve. The question is whether its OK to force other people to be generous. Granite clearly says HE wouldn't force people to be generous, but he not only has no problem with "government" doing so, but he actually thinks arguing otherwise is equivalent to wanting people to starve to death. So basically, you both are elevating this one group of people and saying they don't have to play by the same moral rules as the rest of us. At least you guys are atheists so you'd have no consistent basis to say that would be wrong. But realize that I'm not going from a godless framework.

No, I said I wouldn't mug someone. If you're going to insist otherwise we shouldn't waste time trying to have a conversation.

 

[Caledvwlch]

Think this through logically. Think about what happens if you don't pay.

You are not allowed to partake of the benefits of a society that you've chosen not to support. Benefits like freedom. Refusing to pay taxes is an act of aggression against your neighbors.

 

[Quincy]

I think the mandatory part is what trips a lot of people up. I don't have any problem with it. It's the mandatory part that makes it work. Less than a dollar per hour of my earnings is a small price to pay not to have my grandparents starving to death or be forced to move in with my aunts and uncles (hypothetical, as I don't have any living grandparents, but their SS checks did exactly this while they were with us).

But it wasn't originally a mandate for all workers. It worked well. My grandparents benefited from it, too. My grandfather earned good money during his life, though. Is $700 from a low income worker worth taking? It might be better to just let them have it now. Taxing them seems counter productive.

 

[Granite]

Wrong. FORCING PEOPLE to pay taxes is putting a gun to their head.

Taxing people is also known as "civilization," CL, and way to be late to the party.

Your problem is your selfishness, not any kind of liberty-loving nobility.

 

[Town Heretic]

Wrong. FORCING PEOPLE to pay taxes is putting a gun to their head. Think this through logically. Think about what happens if you don't pay.

You don't get to stay and watch the movie. If you think of it as a property issue you'll come to oppose yourself on the point.

Also, I don't care for Ayn Rand, and I think those who voluntarily give to charity are acting far more morally than those who don't.

Not if they have the same heart on the matter. That is, if I promote and believe in a government whereby a good bit of my charity is accomplished paying into it then it's really not functionally different than your giving coin to a different large charitable institution.

Or do you feed and cloth people personally, literally?

 

[Caledvwlch]

But it wasn't originally a mandate for all workers. It worked well. My grandparents benefited from it, too. My grandfather earned good money during his life, though. Is $700 from a low income worker worth taking? It might be better to just let them have it now. That seems counter productive.

Which actually sounds like a good argument for expanding social welfare programs.

 

[Quincy]

Which actually sounds like a good argument for expanding social welfare programs.

Perhaps, but people who earn under the poverty line should be allowed to opt out of all but the most necessary taxes. Same for self employed people who barely break even or worse.

 

[Rusha]

Wrong. FORCING PEOPLE to pay taxes is putting a gun to their head. Think this through logically. Think about what happens if you don't pay.

You get shot ... with imaginary bullets. Great argument.

 

[Town Heretic]

You get shot ... with imaginary bullets. Great argument.

It's hard to have a conversation that amounts to anything if you're having it with someone who reserves the right to rewrite the dictionary. oly: No, neither property nor taxes can be rightly called theft.

Or, our compact provides a great many protections and benefits. Anyone who finds the exchange unfair or undesirable can, at the age by which they'd be taxed to pay their part for the benefits, renounce their part in the compact and leave it. What they can't do is remain and keep the benefits they aren't contributing to/paying for. Attempting to do that would amount to...stealing.

 

[resodko]

Wrong. FORCING PEOPLE to pay taxes is putting a gun to their head.

i can understand why you might think that's so



but then, i used to work with handicapped children :idunno:

 

[genuineoriginal]

SS is mandatory for all US wage earners

I see you have identified the problem.
lain:

 

[genuineoriginal]

if I promote and believe in a government whereby a good bit of my charity is accomplished paying into it then it's really not functionally different than your giving coin to a different large charitable institution.

Or do you feed and cloth people personally, literally?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No, I said I wouldn't mug someone. If you're going to insist otherwise we shouldn't waste time trying to have a conversation.

You just now figured this out???

 

[republicanchick]

how utterly SUBJECTIVE

but then, what do we expect... it was posted by a LIBERAL

when u use the word Objective w/ a liberal, they have to run to their dictionary:luigi::luigi:

 

[republicanchick]

I meant to say, Liberals... have to run

poor grammar. See, I even grammatically correct myself

 

[Granite]

You just now figured this out???

That I need to knock off mugging folks? I know, I know. Must work on that.:devil:

 

[Caledvwlch]

I meant to say, Liberals... have to run

poor grammar. See, I even grammatically correct myself

Not too big on correct capitalization though.

 

[TracerBullet]

The government has stolen trillions.
Social security is not sustainable.

Sustainable