Kit the Coyote
New member
Oh? you just enjoy hurting people you don't like. Got it. Nice to know about you then but it adds nothing to the subject of the debate.
Why "Conversion Therapy" Should Be Illegal
- Thread starter Arthur Brain
- Start date
Oh? you just enjoy hurting people you don't like. Got it. Nice to know about you then but it adds nothing to the subject of the debate.
Extremists tend to do that.
Their Identity confusion cannot but compel that in them.
They confuse their extremist extreme right as being "Conservative."
Or as Scripture so aptly describes such...
Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Rom. 5:6-8.
Kit the Coyote
New member
A very relevant observation, particularly in light of his next reply. Thank you.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Kit the Coyote
New member
I am quite likely misunderstanding your meaning, if so I do apologize. Regardless of the reason though, if it does not work what is the point?
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Hi Danoh.
For starters, you might want to re-read that chapter on Commitment and Consistency in your pdf copy of Cialdini's classic work "Influence."
Rom. 5:6-8
I'm familiar with it, thanks. I'm not seeing that it would apply in such a way, since it's more likely parents coming to the realization (more so in past generations) that their son is gay are likely to fight, deny, downplay, fear, etc. the realization rather than have an early and strong commitment to acceptance. The cultural pressures are difficult - family can be hurtful and divisive, there's religious condemnation, and of course the mental and emotional minefields that person has to cross.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
it works towards removing an infectious cancer from society
but all of this is moot - to address artie's OP question:
"Why "Conversion Therapy" Should Be Illegal" is a poorly worded question - it would be better written "Why "Conversion Therapy" Should Be Unnecessary"
and the answer would be that homosexuality should be a capital crime
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Kit the Coyote
New member
I see.
Not really a viable solution for 21st Century America and based on history really wouldn't solve anything either.
Haven't read up on Dianetics in quite some time.
NLP is a Behavioral Modeling technology.
If someone is a perfect speller, for example, through a series of Modeling questions, the NLP Modeler attempts to build a model of how such an individual uses his neurology, its language and his body, and so on, to create that result.
He then takes this Model that he has unpacked, for Modeling or Replication at will, by anyone desirous of that skill.
Over the years the Model has resulted in many useful Models and Patterns and from many areas of life.
Case in point as to one of those Patterns, some time ago, a friend of mine was trying to quit a decades old, five pack a day, chain smoking habit.
The guy would light up one cigarette just as his last one was at its very end. He'd go through two or three cigarettes, or more, each time he'd smoke.
Using a Pattern modeled from people who've succeeded in redirecting such a powerful compulsion, I was able to help him with his problem after just 20 minutes with him over the phone.
Absent of any crankiness, absent of any withdrawal, and of his later replacing of that negative habit with another, and absent of his ending up gaining much weight (his weight merely stabilized), and so on.
Years later, he is still free of that nasty habit.
Interestly, he once said to me some time later " I no longer see myself as...a smoker."
Which is a statement about Identity and what that often automatically results in, or compels - Behavior in line with said sense of...Identity *.
At that same time, all this Behavioral Modeling is, is an aspect of the following "invisible" all human beings manifest in their resulting "visible" behavior...
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made...
Although the above is actually a very small part of where I view temptation / compulsion issues from.
I mean such things are much more "holistic" (involve much more of an individual than a mere compulsion).
In the end, overall perspectives on these kinds of things tend to end up slightly different in perspective for each individual looking at such things - always, it depends on the whole of each person's own experiences, understandings, awarenesses and or lack, thereof, and so on.
_______________
* Cialdini's classic book "Influence" contains a fascinating chapter on how sense of Identity or Self...compels Behavior, I found great points of agreement with. The chapter titled "Consistency and Commitment."
You should be able to find an older edition of it on Google in pdf form.
Kit the Coyote
New member
It does sound interesting.
Hi Danoh.
I'm familiar with it, thanks. I'm not seeing that it would apply in such a way, since it's more likely parents coming to the realization (more so in past generations) that their son is gay are likely to fight, deny, downplay, fear, etc. the realization rather than have an early and strong commitment to acceptance. The cultural pressures are difficult - family can be hurtful and divisive, there's religious condemnation, and of course the mental and emotional minefields that person has to cross.
I was thinking more along the line of its solid findings on how Sense of Self compels our drives our Behaviors.
As in the following, which is an example of how sense of Identity is meant to impact or compel...Behavior.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Those females on those two fascinating videos I posted earlier on this thread base much of their dealings with temptation as Believers on those kinds of Sense of Identity Based passages.
Those passages are two thousand years old.
Well, some have figured out something similar regarding these kinds of Identity driven Behavior connections, within the secular world.
What's missing? The last twelve words in a passage like the following...
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Anyway, to finish this post, you'll recall that at one point Cialdini's book goes into some really fascinating examples of what our U.S. Military found the Chinese had done to many of our G.I. P.O.W.s returning home from the North Korean conflict - how that so many of them - once proud, strong "name, rank, and serial number" Red, White and Blue American G.I.s to their core - returned home Communist sympathizers without so much as an insult having been used on them. *
Robbins lays out how to consciously build a Model of much of that in his book "Awaken the Giant Within" (lol, gotta love these secular titles) that one can use at will to impact one's Behavior at the level of Sense of Identity.
_______________
* Yeah, right, trust that repeatedly professed "too smart to read Intel Reports" Trump, of all people, had even the remotest of a clue as to who he was actually dealing with, in the Chinese and the North Koreans.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Just a bit of a heads up here, "okdoser" is a long time troll and will say any outlandish thing in the hopes of getting him some attention. He's had about 78 usernames on here and been banned off the boards about as much. Don't expect to get any sort of reasoned debate with the guy cos it ain't his "MO". Feel free to find out for yourself though.
Just a bit of a heads up here, "okdoser" is a long time troll and will say any outlandish thing in the hopes of getting him some attention. He's had about 78 usernames on here and been banned off the boards about as much. Don't expect to get any sort of reasoned debate with the guy cos it ain't his "MO". Feel free to find out for yourself though.
Yep - the guy is definitely way overdue for what is known in NLP as a "Compulsion Blowout" intervention - long over due.
:chuckle:
Kit the Coyote
New member
Just a bit of a heads up here, "okdoser" is a long time troll and will say any outlandish thing in the hopes of getting him some attention. He's had about 78 usernames on here and been banned off the boards about as much. Don't expect to get any sort of reasoned debate with the guy cos it ain't his "MO". Feel free to find out for yourself though.
Yea sort of gathered that when he went full Sharia on the next reply. *laughs* He still provided a good illustration of the point.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
kit - quick question, then I'm back to work
In general, is societal acceptance of non-normative sexual behavior good or bad?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Kit the Coyote
New member
Depends on the behavior and the individuals involved.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
and what are the determining factors that you see as relevant in making that determination?
Kit the Coyote
New member
Primarily, consent of those involved and whether others are directly and immediately impacted. Consistency in treatment is another, if all things are equal and the behavior would be accepted by others then I see no reason for society to treat it any differently.
Society accepts a man and woman kissing on the street corner, there is no reason for it to treat two men kissing any differently.
Society does not accept a heterosexual adult having sex with a child, there is no reason for society to treat a homosexual adult any differently.