ECT Who is the man-child of Rev.12?

[tetelestai]

Explain how the New Jerusalem hid out in the wilderness.

How many years did God's people wander in the wilderness after the exodus from Egypt?

(Heb 3:17-19, 4:1) 17. And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?

18. And to whom did He sware that they should not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?

19. And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

4:1. Therefore, let us fear lest, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any of you should seem to have come short of it.

 

[Danoh]

Um.......I was agreeing with him.

Then I stand corrected.

And you still often do what I noted. I wouldn't bring it up otherwise. I'll point it out from time to time, as I don't mind having it pointed out when I am off on something.

 

[tetelestai]

Yes, it is impossible when he has his mind already made up, and why that is, I do not know?

Like your mind isn't already made up.

 

[tetelestai]

The remnant of her seed are around after the man child is caught up.

That's what I've been saying.

They are the "other offspring". They are those in Christ.

You cannot escape it,

Rev 2:26-27 (KJV).

This is the man child. No escape.

You're 100% wrong.

Read Psalm 2:9

(Psalm 2:9) Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Who is Psalm 2:9 describing?

 

[Cross Reference]

I'm always interested in Revelation, and I've looked at it from may angles, but I've yet to be convinced any one of those angles is THE correct one.

Being convinced is no issue unless my progress in my journey Home becomes unsure to me. That will not happen.

After reading chapter 12, can we agree that the woman gives birth to the very elect; those who will be caught away only to come again with Jesus in the clouds to assist Him in governing for the 1000 yr reign when He judges the nations from David's throne in Jerusalem?

BTW: The period of judging the nations will only be for His 1000 yr region. No longer.. see Zach. 14:13-18 KJV

Now, lets see if we can progress in this before going further.

 

[nikolai_42]

Israel doesn't birth anyone who gets immediately caught away either in the multi-membered role or singular one.



FWT. The woman leaves behind a remnant that will go through the tribulation. Interested? . . .

Note that Rev 12 doesn't say that the man-child was caught up immediately. Rather, that the dragon positioned himself to devour the child as soon as he was born. And note in verse 9 that the dragon is cast out from heaven. Comparing that with Luke 10:18, it seems that the timeframe is accurate...

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

You're 100% wrong.

Rev 2:26-27 (KJV)

You have a dilemma.

This "he" rules the nations with a rod of iron, and it isn't Jesus Christ.

 

[Danoh]

Genesis 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Genesis 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

Genesis 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Genesis 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Isaiah 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isaiah 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[tetelestai]

Rev 2:26-27 (KJV)

You have a dilemma.

This "he" rules the nations with a rod of iron, and it isn't Jesus Christ.

No dilemma.

As you already acknowledged, the "he's" in Rev 2:26-27 are a collective singular.

(Rev 20:4) I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[tetelestai]

Who is Psalm 2:9 describing?

Compare Psalm 2:9 with Rev 2:27

(Rev 2:27 KJV) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

(Psalm 2:9 KJV) Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

No dilemma.

As you already acknowledged, the "he's" in Rev 2:26-27 are a collective singular.

(Rev 20:4) I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The "he" rules the nations with a rod of iron, and it isn't Jesus Christ.

You have a dilemma if the "man child which rules the nations with a rod of iron" in Rev 12 is Jesus Christ.

 

[tetelestai]

The "he" rules the nations with a rod of iron, and it isn't Jesus Christ.

It's the Saints that rule with Christ Jesus, as described in Rev 20

You have a dilemma if the "man child which rules the nations with a rod of iron" in Rev 12 is Jesus Christ.

I don't have a dilemma, you do.

Who rules with a rod of iron in Psalm 2:9?

 

[Danoh]

And there is the issue these two passages appear to point to...

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The Lord's 1st Advent, rejection and return to the Father, after which follows Israel's being persecuted, the Father's deliverance, and the Lord's return.

 

[Cross Reference]

[QUOTE=tetelestai;

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" Revelation 12:17 (KJV)


Do you also think that the "remnant of her seed" is a singular entity or a multi-bodied remnant? Are they a body at all?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

It's the Saints that rule with Christ Jesus, as described in Rev 20



I don't have a dilemma, you do.

Who rules with a rod of iron in Psalm 2:9?

Jesus when he TAKES his place on the throne of the believer.

:think:

 

[LoneStar]

Does this passage from Micah not hint strongly at being parallel with Rev 12?

Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the Lord shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.
Micah 4:10

The seeming implication would be that the daughter of Zion is the woman - Israel - and the man-child is Jesus. Rev 12:5 certainly makes the man-child identification pretty hard to defy. And reading Rev 12:13 certainly seems to point towards Satan's persecution of Israel (both known and scattered).

That's the way I see it.
The woman is Israel, the man child is Christ.

Me too. :thumb:

Add me to that list.

 

[tetelestai]

It' definitely more than one person, if that's what your asking:


(Rev 12:17 NIV) Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

 

[Cross Reference]

It' definitely more than one person, if that's what your asking:


(Rev 12:17 NIV) Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Yes. That is what I am asking. So why the argument that the man-child is but one individual?

 

[tetelestai]

Yes. That is what I am asking. So why the argument that the man-child is but one individual?

The man child is one individual (Christ Jesus)

The woman has OTHER offspring.

 

[LoneStar]

And there is the issue these two passages appear to point to...

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The Lord's 1st Advent, rejection and return to the Father, after which follows Israel's being persecuted, the Father's deliverance, and the Lord's return.

Agreed.