ECT Who is saved?

oatmeal

Well-known member
I would suggest to you this is the key to becoming a Christian, being baptized in the name of Jesus.


I would politely suggest by this comment, you're creating a contradiction.
You say to be saved:
1. Confess with the mouth the lord Jesus
2. Believe in the heart that God raised him from the dead

Nothing more, nothing less


Jesus said:
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

For your own understanding, look at examples of conversions in scripture and see which pattern the people followed going from being lost to becoming a Christian.

Baptized in what? Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Does God force people to believe him? or do people believe because they want to?

Who is this baptism done to?

When does God activate this baptism into your life?

When you meet the two prerequisites in Romans 10:9

Jesus was right. However, do we understand what he was talking about and to whom?

Who was the ministry of Jesus Christ directed to?

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

He was not sent to minister to the Gentiles.

Were you a Gentile before you received salvation?

If Jesus is right and you are a Gentile then

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

does not apply to you, thus you could not be saved.

However, we must remember that Jesus spoke about the law and the fulfilling of it, which was not yet fulfilled at the time that he spoke those things. For that matter, nothing that he spoke in the gospel period was in the context of he having completed the fulfilling of the law, for the law was not fulfilled until "the day of Pentecost was fully come" emphasis on "fully"
 

turbosixx

New member
It does not involve water or any other ritual, it is a spiritual event that God does to those who repent, that is, have a change of heart.

I'd consider scriptures to support this claim.

What is the purpose of baptism? Please back up with scripture.
 

turbosixx

New member
Jesus was right. However, do we understand what he was talking about and to whom?

Who was the ministry of Jesus Christ directed to?

He commanded this of all nations, all people not the Jews only.
Mk. 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

This was after his death, burial and resurrection.


However, we must remember that Jesus spoke about the law and the fulfilling of it, which was not yet fulfilled at the time that he spoke those things.

It was fulfilled before Pentecost. When was if fulfilled and done away with?

Eph. 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
 

turbosixx

New member
But it all started for the unbeliever when they did two things to get saved.

1. Confessed with the mouth the lord Jesus

2. Believed in their heart that God raised him from the dead

If this is the case, please show me with Holy Spirit inspired examples of conversion found in the bible.
 

Right Divider

Body part
From Jesus Lord and Savior himself:
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
The LORD Jesus Christ speaking to the TWELVE apostles of the TWELVE tribes of Israel. Why don't you accept that there is something important about that?

Later, the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ called another single apostle and gave to him a dispensation of the gospel that is called the dispensation of the grace of God.

Those are two different things, even though they were given by the same LORD.
 

Right Divider

Body part
He commanded this of all nations, all people not the Jews only.
Mk. 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

This was after his death, burial and resurrection.
If the LORD Jesus Christ sent His twelve apostles for the twelve tribes of Israel to all the world, why did God call another single apostle later?

Because the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ had some revelation to give to Paul that had previously been hid in God.

Eph 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Something "hid in God" was NOT known before God revealed it to Paul.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Must be why Paul told the Philippian jailor, not "wait to be gifted with faith so you can believe" but simply "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

Too many steps in your "gospel" DP.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Just as the obvious fact that there is no ability to properly surrender until after one has believed.

Believed what?

Believe Rom. 5:8.

One - simple - step - of - faith.

Matthew 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

How's that for a definition of "faith" - "as a grain of a mustard seed."

Note: Though setting of that passage is Dispensational, its principle is not.


Hi and there are a lot of saved believers out there BUT do not know how God saved them , just like MANY will never know how Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 and you can never say HOW , can you ?

Just like one posted says and qoutes Matt 29:19 and does not know what NATION / ETHNLS means !!

Maybe to many HYBRIDS out there , do you think ?

O WELL !!

dan p
 

Right Divider

Body part
I was hoping to get your understanding. Since you mentioned the grace of God, I would like to understand exactly what you mean. Simple definition is all I ask.
The gospel of the grace of God was given to Paul for us all (Eph 3:1-7).

It has to do with salvation apart from anything that God had done in the past.

Paul speaks of the fellowship of the mystery as having been hid in God from the beginning of the world. You agree with Paul, right?

The LORD Jesus Christ never preached the gospel of the grace of God while He was on earth as a minister of the circumcision (Rom 15:8). If He had, there would be scripture of Him using the word GRACE.... but He never did.
 

turbosixx

New member
The gospel of the grace of God was given to Paul for us all (Eph 3:1-7).
I agree.

It has to do with salvation apart from anything that God had done in the past.
I agree.

Paul speaks of the fellowship of the mystery as having been hid in God from the beginning of the world. You agree with Paul, right?
I always agree with Paul.

The LORD Jesus Christ never preached the gospel of the grace of God while He was on earth as a minister of the circumcision (Rom 15:8). If He had, there would be scripture of Him using the word GRACE.... but He never did.

This is the part I'm struggling with. You still haven't given me a simple definition as to what is the grace of God. From my understanding, your above comment is incorrect. That's why it might help me if I knew what grace of God means to you.
 

turbosixx

New member
Which baptism? or all of them in general?

If you would like to tackle them all that would be cool but for times sake and hopefully coming to an understanding, this one will do for now.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
 

Right Divider

Body part
This is the part I'm struggling with. You still haven't given me a simple definition as to what is the grace of God. From my understanding, your above comment is incorrect. That's why it might help me if I knew what grace of God means to you.
First, let me ask. How could Jesus be preaching the gospel of the grace of God without even ONCE using the word "grace".

Clearly impossible.

The gospel of the grace of God is salvation by grace through faith. It has nothing to do with the gospel of the kingdom that Jesus was preaching and told His twelve apostles for the twelve tribes of Israel to preach.
 

turbosixx

New member
First, let me ask. How could Jesus be preaching the gospel of the grace of God without even ONCE using the word "grace".

Clearly impossible.

Webster does is all the time.
Grace - (in Christian belief) the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.

But I'm looking for your definition.

Maybe we can try this. What does the grace of God do for a sinner?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
He commanded this of all nations, all people not the Jews only.
Mk. 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

This was after his death, burial and resurrection.




It was fulfilled before Pentecost. When was if fulfilled and done away with?

Eph. 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

He told his disciples who were Gentiles or Judeans?

That is different than to whom those Judeans were sent to.

Was Jonah sent to Nineveh? Was that a Judean city or a Gentile city?

Thus going to the Gentiles is nothing new.

However, the scope of Jesus' ministry was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel only.

He did not go to the Gentiles, he obeyed his God and Father and kept within the confines of the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Since Jesus told them to baptize we could ask what form was that baptism, for both John and Jesus foretold that John's baptism, that is water baptism, would be replaced by the baptism that Jesus Christ would institute, namely the baptism in holy spirit. Acts 1:5,8

This baptism in pneuma hagion resulted in the believers receiving power

John's baptism is referred to as a baptism unto repentance

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Eph. 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Good point, yet there was more to fulfill.

Another passage that shows that Jesus finished something was when he cried out, It is finished.

He finished something at that point in time that is for sure.

Our redemption

There was still law to fulfill.

Even after the resurrection, he still had law to fulfill

John 20:17 a duty of the high priest to wave the sheaf of the first fruits before the Lord Lev 23:10-11, while He, the first fruits from the dead... From EW Bullinger's Companion Bible p. 1571

and again a reference to a prophecy and commandment about and to Jesus Christ, Acts 2:34-35

The law included the law specifically to Jesus Christ, even as certain laws were specifically to priests, high priests, husbands, wives, children, etc.
 
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