glorydaz
Well-known member
Paul says they aren't saved.....just like you. They were counting on their own efforts....just like you.
ECT Who is saved?
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Paul says they aren't saved.....just like you. They were counting on their own efforts....just like you.
God's Truth
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They did not obey Jesus they kept doing the old law way with the purification works.
Think.
Cross Reference
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Absent the knowledge of Jesus Christ: If anyone was zealous for God to do what He commands as written on their hearts, why would they not in the end, be saved; be judged by God for their righteous works/deeds or unrighteous works or deeds, as the case may be?
glorydaz
Well-known member
It isn't the zealous part that keeps them from salvation. It's the trusting in their own efforts that will do it.
Cross Reference
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I choose to believe they weren't zealous for their own sakes but for the God they believed for. You haven't any reason to believe to the contrary.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Nor did I even suggest it was to the contrary. I said, it was not the zealous part that was wrong. I didn't say a thing about being zealous for their own sake, did I? No, I didn't. A person can be zealous (like God's UNtruth) but still trust in their own righteousness instead of submitting to the righteousness of God (which is trusting in Him instead of their own efforts.
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But you alluded to self-righteousness.
My example would never know to be careful to guard against what you suggest could be a factor. That is why Jesus said to simply go and preach and make disciples to Jesus of them, not persuade to salvation which many already would have had..
glorydaz
Well-known member
I can't make heads or tales over what you just said.
Paul was talking about those who were not saved, but trusted in their own righteousness.
Cross Reference
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Was he? I didn't read it that way. I set up my example without self in mind.
This was my lead in:
"Absent the knowledge of Jesus Christ: If anyone was zealous for God to do what He commands as written on their hearts, why would they not in the end, be saved; be judged by God for their righteous works/deeds or unrighteous works or deeds, as the case may be?"
Wanna take another crack at it?
I edited my post #787
This was my lead in:
"Absent the knowledge of Jesus Christ: If anyone was zealous for God to do what He commands as written on their hearts, why would they not in the end, be saved; be judged by God for their righteous works/deeds or unrighteous works or deeds, as the case may be?"
Wanna take another crack at it?
I edited my post #787
God's Truth
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I gave you pos rep to make you feel better.
You sound always so angry and bitter.
Just like a demon you are...twisted. You judge falsely and make kindness a disgrace. You make a mockery out of doing right.
Cross Reference
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My, my, my . . how sad.
indeed.
God's Truth
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You prove you are a hypocrite. You just got through earlier putting Meshak down. You both are a mess.
Cross Reference
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uh, huh.
Cross Reference
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"When Christ is formed in us we have to see that our human nature acts in perfect obedience to all that the Son of God reveals. God does not supply us with character, He gives us the life of His Son and we can either ignore Him and refuse to obey Him, or we can so obey Him, so bring every thought and imagination into captivity, that the life of Jesus is manifested in our mortal flesh. It is not a question of being saved from hell, but of being saved in order to manifest the Son of God in our mortal flesh. Our responsibility is to keep ourselves fit to manifest Him."
Chambers, O. (1965). Our brilliant heritage. London: Marshall, Morgan & Scott.
"My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you", Galatians 4:19 (KJV)
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:20-21 (KJV)
Chambers, O. (1965). Our brilliant heritage. London: Marshall, Morgan & Scott.
"My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you", Galatians 4:19 (KJV)
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:20-21 (KJV)
exactly, amen.
God's Truth
New member
You don't even obey Chambers, let alone Jesus Christ.
Cross Reference
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To GT with love:
December 1st
The law and the gospel
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."/I] James 2:10.
The moral law does not consider us as weak human beings at all, it takes no account of our heredity and infirmities, it demands that we be absolutely moral. The moral law never alters, either for the noblest or for the weakest, it is eternally and abidingly the same. The moral law ordained by God does not make itself weak to the weak, it does not palliate our shortcomings, it remains absolute for all time and eternity. If we do not realize this, it is because we are less than alive; immediately we are alive, life becomes a tragedy. “I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” When we realize this, then the Spirit of God convicts us of sin. Until a man gets there and sees that there is no hope, the Cross of Jesus Christ is a farce to him. Conviction of sin always brings a fearful binding sense of the law, it makes a man hopeless—“sold under sin.” I, a guilty sinner, can never get right with God, it is impossible. There is only one way in which I can get right with God, and that is by the death of Jesus Christ. I must get rid of the lurking idea that I can ever be right with God because of my obedience—which of us could ever obey God to absolute perfection!
We only realize the power of the moral law when it comes with an ‘if.’ God never coerces us. In one mood we wish He would make us do the thing, and in another mood we wish He would leave us alone. Whenever God’s will is in the ascendant, all compulsion is gone. When we choose deliberately to obey Him, then, with all His almighty power, He will tax the remotest star and the last grain of sand to assist us.
Oswald Chambers
December 1st
The law and the gospel
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."/I] James 2:10.
The moral law does not consider us as weak human beings at all, it takes no account of our heredity and infirmities, it demands that we be absolutely moral. The moral law never alters, either for the noblest or for the weakest, it is eternally and abidingly the same. The moral law ordained by God does not make itself weak to the weak, it does not palliate our shortcomings, it remains absolute for all time and eternity. If we do not realize this, it is because we are less than alive; immediately we are alive, life becomes a tragedy. “I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” When we realize this, then the Spirit of God convicts us of sin. Until a man gets there and sees that there is no hope, the Cross of Jesus Christ is a farce to him. Conviction of sin always brings a fearful binding sense of the law, it makes a man hopeless—“sold under sin.” I, a guilty sinner, can never get right with God, it is impossible. There is only one way in which I can get right with God, and that is by the death of Jesus Christ. I must get rid of the lurking idea that I can ever be right with God because of my obedience—which of us could ever obey God to absolute perfection!
We only realize the power of the moral law when it comes with an ‘if.’ God never coerces us. In one mood we wish He would make us do the thing, and in another mood we wish He would leave us alone. Whenever God’s will is in the ascendant, all compulsion is gone. When we choose deliberately to obey Him, then, with all His almighty power, He will tax the remotest star and the last grain of sand to assist us.
Oswald Chambers