ECT Who is not saved?

[meshak]

More like FINISHED work of the Cross assurance.

More like...

2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

All you need to do is come to Romans 5:6-11.

And right this minute would be no time too soon.

You are still disregarding Peter's word.


Your resoning is so convenient.

 

[Danoh]

So you dismiss Peter's word?

No. I respect who his words were adressed to - to the Believing Remnant of Israel described in Matthew thru Early Acts - who "obtained that which" God had "sought" for them concerning Who His Son was.

After which God then concluded the remainder of their nation in unbelief at the end of Acts 7, and once more allowed "their table" of "blessing" to be turned into a snare against them, and by their own hand, in their continued unbelief.

Romans 2 and 3 and 9 thru 11.

 

[Danoh]

You are still disregarding Peter's word.


Your resoning is so convenient.

Actually, you are.

Nuff said.

Rom. 5: 6-8 awaits your umbelief.

 

[meshak]

More like FINISHED work of the Cross assurance.

More like...

2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

All you need to do is come to Romans 5:6-11.

And right this minute would be no time too soon.

Your reasoning do not make sense with Peter's word, at all.

1 Peter 4:17-19 (New International Version)
17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18And,
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"


denial will not make you go anywhere.

 

[turbosixx]

What do you say, turbo?

I agree with you that God is the judge, not us. I also read that we can know we are in Christ and if we are in Christ we are saved.

 

[meshak]

I agree with you that God is the judge, not us. I also read that we can know we are in Christ and if we are in Christ we are saved.

And according to Peter we all will be judged.

Jesus may not agree with us when we think we are in Christ.

Please read Peter's word carefully.

thanks.

 

[turbosixx]

No, our "keeping His commandments" are the works of righteousness Paul talks about here. It's why Paul tells us that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe. Romans 10:4 The righteousness of faith is not commandment keeping of any sort. It's trusting totally in Christ's work on the Cross for all who believe.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:​

Not commandment keeping of any sort?
So we have no commandments from Christ? If we do, do we have the choice to do them or not?

Can you point me to a passage from an inspired writer that tells us about Christ's work on the cross?

The law was always intended to include the thoughts of the heart.

Maybe looking to Christ but for 1,500 years it did not include the heart and couldn't. How would that be possible.

 

[meshak]

Maybe looking to Christ but for 1,500 years it did not include the heart and couldn't. How would that be possible.

If we have loving heart like Jesus, we will strive to follow His commandments. Sincere Christians strive to follow Jesus' commandments and should not tell anyone it is not requirement for salvation.

Jesus says if you love Me, keep my commandments.

If we don't love Him, there is no salvation.

 

[turbosixx]

Jesus may not agree with us when we think we are in Christ.

I agree totally. Many people fool themselves but those who are honest with themselves can know. If we are following Christ to the best of our abilities, then we are righteous as he is righteous.

1 Jn. 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.

 

[meshak]

I agree totally. Many people fool themselves but those who are honest with themselves can know. If we are following Christ to the best of our abilities, then we are righteous as he is righteous.

Jesus' standards are perfection, so if we are honest we cannot claim to be saved.

What we ought to be doing is striving to be accepted by Jesus.

 

[turbosixx]

Nope. Those passages fit within Ephesians 2's Time Past.

The issue as to Christ in Matthew thru Early Acts is the issue concerning He Who Israel's Prophets had Prophesied would come unto them to deliver them.

Those sections all concern the issue of the necessity for that nation to believe He was that Prophesied Individual.

John is no exception to that. John starts with that, and ends with that. And John is writing to THEM.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Who were those of His Own who DID receive Him?

1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

We then read this about HIM.

John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

That nation was to have expected Him.

John is one more account of Who He had been and His nation's great failure in that many of "His own received him not."

Again - who were those of His Own who DID receive Him?

1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Who ELSE of those of His Own who DID receive Him?

1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ. 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

Who else? And what again did they believe ABOUT Him?

1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

There it is right there.

Result?

1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

By the way, that last passage (Jacob's Ladder, basically) is part of a "one day" redeemed ISRAEL's "Ages To Come."

You might want to review what ever notes you took :chuckle:

I mean, if we can't laugh here and there; what's the point?

Anyway, here is a simpler, more to the point version of that video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBRmPEMcWI&app=desktop

Rom. 5:6-8.

Yes, Jesus went to the Jews only but why? Where the Gentiles to announce the arrival of the Messiah? Was salvation to come from the Gentiles?

The book of John was written about Jesus. The whole bible is about Jesus and him conquering sin.
15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
Somehow mad has lost focus of that and has made it about Israel.

1 John is written after the cross and is written to Christians.

 

[turbosixx]

Jesus' standards are perfection, so if we are honest we cannot claim to be saved.

Yes, God's standards are perfection. That's why we are saved by grace and not by ourselves.

What we ought to be doing is striving to be accepted by Jesus.

46 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes

 

[meshak]

Yes, God's standards are perfection. That's why we are saved by grace and not by ourselves.

No one is saying we are saved by ourselves.

 

[marhig]

Yes, the gift of eternal life is also known as the gift of pneuma hagion from the God who is the Holy Spirit.

If we have the gift of holy spirit from the Giver who is the Holy Spirit who is God then we have not only received it within ourselves (dechomai) but can also receive it in manifestation (lambano) by utilizing the manifestation of the spirit as listed in I Corinthians 12:7-10

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

For rewards.

We do not get rewards for error, but for doing what is right

It is important that the two be kept separate.

We can earn eternal rewards for our service and faithfulness to God and in living His word

What are we doing to earn them?

What do we need to do to earn them, specifically?

We need to live by God's will, to receive anything from God.

 

[Danoh]

We need to live by God's will, to receive anything from God.

Yours is CONDITIONAL grace.

Rom. 5:6-8 is what you need to REST...IN.

 

[Danoh]

No one is saying we are saved by ourselves.

Meshak Other, I presume.

In contrast to Meshak Light.

Nice sock hop you two have going there.

Danny and the Juniors say hello...

Well, you can swing it you can groove it
You can really start to move it at the hop
Where the jockey is the smoothest
And the music is the coolest at the hop

All the cats and chicks can get their kicks at the hop
Let's go!

Let's go to the hop
Let's go to the hop, (oh baby)
Let's go to the hop, (oh baby)
Let's go to the hop

:chuckle:

But Rom. 5:6-8 still awaits you, so hop to it, already.

 

[marhig]

That was true for the gospel period which is the time while our redemption and salvation was still a work in progress.

Hence, salvation and eternal life was not yet a gift for it had not yet been paid for!

Jesus is not shown to have died (for us and our sins, for our redemption and salvation) until the last chapters of the four gospels

Once the word was done, "It is finished" and a few more scriptures had to be fulfilled and the day of Pentecost had fully come,then salvation became a gift, not a moment sooner.

Paul's writings elaborate on what Jesus Christ's ministry accomplished, while the gospels tells us of the works that he did to accomplish our redemption and salvation.

Oatmeal, many say they are saved and then live to the contrary, those being saved will be gradually overcoming their flesh by the power of the Spirit, we can't produce the fruit of the Spirit if we are still living in our flesh and loving this world.

Also, many say they are eternally saved and then turn back to the world, showing that they weren't eternally saved at all. We have freewill, we are being saved from this world and being helped to overcome sin whilst we live by Gods will and remain in his goodness, if we don't do this then we will be cut off just as the apostle Paul teaches.

People live under a false security when they believe that God will put up with anything and that all their sins past, present and future are forgiven the day that they said that they believed, this is not the truth. Only our past sins we're forgiven which we had done in ignorance, once we know God we are to turn from sin and obey him, we will still sin but we shouldn't be intentionally sinning, and when we realise that we do, we should repent and pray for forgiveness. God won't be mocked, and we are not to wilfully sin.

Right through the Bible we are told to turn from sin, why would God change his mind because Jesus died on the cross? Too many are listening to the false teaching, that regardless of what they do they are once saved always saved, this isn't true. God doesn't change, Jesus lived to save us, and we are saved by his life, by believing in his words, they are Spirit and they are life, by truly following him, and by his life made manifest within us by the power of the Holy Spirit helping us to overcome, thus saving us from satan and the world. Because he who is in us is stronger than he who is of the world. We are then to obey God, and endure what is set before us partake in the sufferings of Christ, and endure to the end through Christ Jesus who is our perfect example to follow. And the rewards for this are priceless, nothing in this world can compare to what God has to give us.

So, we are being saved through Christ Jesus, by hearing God's word, by believing in him and his gospel, by the grace of God through faith. We then are to turn from sin, and once we do this, and once we are born of God, God will help us and strengthen us to do so and help us to overcome our flesh and this world through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[marhig]

The hope of eternal life is not stating "gosh, I hope I have eternal life" but the hope, the future event, not based on our timing but God's timing, of Christ's return to gather his saints, I Thessalonians 4:13-18, where we , having our new bodies, we can to begin to fully enjoy our eternal life.

Although we have salvation now, Romans 10:9-10, I John 5:13, the complete realization of what our salvation is all about will not be realized until Christ's return.

Then we shall know even as we are known.

I John 3:1-3

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

and

I Corinthians 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Christ Jesus has already returned and he is in those who belong to him, in his people. They are his resurrected body. The body of Christ.

 

[marhig]

More like FINISHED work of the Cross assurance.

More like...

2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

All you need to do is come to Romans 5:6-11.

And right this minute would be no time too soon.

Where does it say in the Bible that all future sins are forgiven? You need to read all the verses that show us that we can be cut off, including those from the apostle Paul. If you want me to, I'll quote some?

 

[marhig]

No. I respect who his words were adressed to - to the Believing Remnant of Israel described in Matthew thru Early Acts - who "obtained that which" God had "sought" for them concerning Who His Son was.

After which God then concluded the remainder of their nation in unbelief at the end of Acts 7, and once more allowed "their table" of "blessing" to be turned into a snare against them, and by their own hand, in their continued unbelief.

Romans 2 and 3 and 9 thru 11.

All the apostles, including Paul all preached the one gospel, the gospel of God the same gospel that Christ Jesus preached.

There is no such thing as two gospels this is yet another false teaching created by some denominations.