ECT Who is not saved?

[Nihilo]

one resurrected arises in a spiritual body. - 1 Corinthians 15

The resurrection of Jesus was spiritual, in a spirit body although he could appear more physical to make appearances to his disciples and do things that a resurrected physical body could not do outside of supernatural powers. Therefore a physical resurrection is not necessary from various perspectives, while a spiritual one is essential, and what indeed happens upon the death of the physical body....the spirit rises.

Luke 24:39 KJV (and Luke 24:42-43 KJV) tells us that 1st Corinthians' spiritual body, is not another name for a spirit.

Re: Romans 10:9

Nobody misunderstands what Romans 10:9 KJV says except you, Freelight.

 

[Danoh]

Well your opinion of Meshak is not the subject of this thread.

That was about her obviously erroneous beliefs, not about her.

She herself has ever appeared not that bad a person.

But it is what we have each either soundly believed about salvation or not, that saves us or not, not how wonderful we may, or may not be as persons.

Why do you think I always end my posts with Rom. 5:6-8?

Because THAT is the actual issue - NOT the person I have posted whatever to.

Christ ALONE...is the issue.

You continue to prove your discernment of through words, could use some further tuning :chuckle:

 

[meshak]

Oatmeal,

I did not say I don't know. I said, we all of us, do not know until Jesus Judges.

Peter says God's house hold will be judged first.

I just edited to clarify my comment.

thanks.

 

[Danoh]

How is it my interpretation. I just repeated what the bible says.

No. Along with those passages you posted what you have read into them.

Especially that last section of passages.

You mixed Ephesians 2's "Time Past," with its "But Now."

Here, a simpler, shorter, much more to the point video study on this issue of Ephesians 2 as a Bible Study Guideline...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBRmPEMcWI&app=desktop

In memory of Rom. 5:6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[oatmeal]

Oatmeal,

I did not say I don't know. I said, we all of us, do not know until Jesus Judges.

Peter says God's house hold will be judged first.

If we have received the gift of eternal life, it is available for us to know that without any doubt whatsoever

 

[oatmeal]

That was about her obviousmy erroneous beliefs, not about her.

She herself has ever appeared not that bad a person.

But it is what we have each either soundly believed about salvation or not, that saves us or not, not how wonderful we may, or may not be as persons.

Why do you think I always end my posts with Rom. 5:6-8?

Because THAT is the actual issue - NOT the person I have posted whatever to.

Christ ALONE...is the issue.

You continue to prove your discernment of through words, could use some further tuning :chuckle:

Well, the verses you provided are wonderful verses that help people understand that the gift of eternal life does not stop if a person sins after they receive it.

Eternal means eternal.

It does not mean only until you sin the first time after you receive it.

What if a person's relationship with their parents was like that?

You are their offspring and have live until the first time you soil your diapers

No child would survive their first bowel movement.

Yet somehow, people ignore those verses you listed and thing God is waiting to destroy someone He gave his son for so as to give them the opportunity to be saved from their sins

If a person is not saved, they do not have the gift of eternal life,

But is a person is saved, they do have eternal life, even if they die before Christ returns, they shall continue to live once raised from the dead to die no more.


A child born to human parents, that child needs to be taught, educated, learn, behave and live according to a set of standards if they are to mature.

Even so, the child of God needs to learn... in order to mature into the fulness of Christ. Ephesians 4:15 is clear about that

 

[meshak]

If we have received the gift of eternal life, it is available for us to know that without any doubt whatsoever

Jesus' followers have a hope of salvation.

"For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life".

This is future tense.

 

[marhig]

Who is not saved?

Please provide scripture to show why you conclude what you conclude

What comes after receiving the gift of salvation that those who are not saved or those who do not know that there is more after salvation are missing out on?

Those not living by the will of God

John 3

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[oatmeal]

Obeying the Gospel is believing.



The word there is believe not obey...just like the first part of the verse.



Keeping His commandments....those He kept...that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled IN US (believers)?

Romans 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​

How is it, then, that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe? Romans 10:4

Because we have been given the gift of righteousness as part of that salvation package.

I Corinthians 1:30, II Corinthians 5:21

Our job is to learn to exercise that righteousness by our obedience to the word

 

[meshak]

Our job is to learn to exercise that righteousness by our obedience to the word

And we don't know if we are being obedient to the word by Jesus' standards.

It seems most of are deceiving ourselves, believing to be obedient.

Jesus' standards are super high.

 

[marhig]

If we have received the gift of eternal life, it is available for us to know that without any doubt whatsoever

Receiving the gift of eternal life is receiving the Holy Spirit, he is eternal life. And we have to endure to the end to be eternally saved as Christ Jesus taught.

Paul teaches that we will be judged on what we do good and bad. If we are already eternally saved, why will we be judged on what we do? And why does Jesus say in Revelation that we will be judged on our works? If there is no judgement?

 

[marhig]

Jesus' followers have a hope of salvation.

"For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life".

This is future tense.

Yep, and there's this

Titus 3

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 13:11

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[Danoh]

Receiving the gift of eternal life is receiving the Holy Spirit, he is eternal life. And we have to endure to the end to be eternally saved as Christ Jesus taught.

Paul teaches that we will be judged on what we do good and bad. If we are already eternally saved, why will we be judged on what we do? And why does Jesus say in Revelation that we will be judged on our works? If there is no judgement?

You are basically violating the Three-Fold Principle the Apostle Paul both applies in Ephesians 2, and that he bases what he lays out in that chapter on.

Here, take a half hour and hear out this simple study on that, pen and paper in one hand, and that other Three-Fold principle obvious in Acts 17:11, 12, in your other hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBRmPEMcWI&app=desktop

In memory of Rom. 5:6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[meshak]

Yep, and there's this

Titus 3

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 13:11

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

thanks, I did not realize it was plainly written.

 

[marhig]

You are basically violating the Three-Fold Principle the Apostle Paul both applies in Ephesians 2, and that he bases what he lays out in that chapter on.

Here, take a half hour and hear out this simple study on that, pen and paper in one hand, and that other Three-Fold principle obvious in Acts 17:11, 12, in your other hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBRmPEMcWI&app=desktop

In memory of Rom. 5:6-8 - in each our stead.

Thanks but I won't be watching any videos, I'll keep to scripture. And it's clear from the scriptures that we are to endure to the end to be eternally saved. And we will be judged on what we do whether it be good or bad.

 

[Danoh]

Thanks but I won't be watching any videos, I'll keep to scripture. And it's clear from the scriptures that we are to endure to the end to be eternally saved. And we will be judged on what we do whether it be good or bad.

Good luck with that.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[oatmeal]

Receiving the gift of eternal life is receiving the Holy Spirit, he is eternal life. And we have to endure to the end to be eternally saved as Christ Jesus taught.

Paul teaches that we will be judged on what we do good and bad. If we are already eternally saved, why will we be judged on what we do? And why does Jesus say in Revelation that we will be judged on our works? If there is no judgement?

Yes, the gift of eternal life is also known as the gift of pneuma hagion from the God who is the Holy Spirit.

If we have the gift of holy spirit from the Giver who is the Holy Spirit who is God then we have not only received it within ourselves (dechomai) but can also receive it in manifestation (lambano) by utilizing the manifestation of the spirit as listed in I Corinthians 12:7-10

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

For rewards.

We do not get rewards for error, but for doing what is right

It is important that the two be kept separate.

We can earn eternal rewards for our service and faithfulness to God and in living His word

What are we doing to earn them?

What do we need to do to earn them, specifically?

 

[oatmeal]

Thanks but I won't be watching any videos, I'll keep to scripture. And it's clear from the scriptures that we are to endure to the end to be eternally saved. And we will be judged on what we do whether it be good or bad.

That was true for the gospel period which is the time while our redemption and salvation was still a work in progress.

Hence, salvation and eternal life was not yet a gift for it had not yet been paid for!

Jesus is not shown to have died (for us and our sins, for our redemption and salvation) until the last chapters of the four gospels

Once the word was done, "It is finished" and a few more scriptures had to be fulfilled and the day of Pentecost had fully come,then salvation became a gift, not a moment sooner.

Paul's writings elaborate on what Jesus Christ's ministry accomplished, while the gospels tells us of the works that he did to accomplish our redemption and salvation.

 

[oatmeal]

Yep, and there's this

Titus 3

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 13:11

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

The hope of eternal life is not stating "gosh, I hope I have eternal life" but the hope, the future event, not based on our timing but God's timing, of Christ's return to gather his saints, I Thessalonians 4:13-18, where we , having our new bodies, we can to begin to fully enjoy our eternal life.

Although we have salvation now, Romans 10:9-10, I John 5:13, the complete realization of what our salvation is all about will not be realized until Christ's return.

Then we shall know even as we are known.

I John 3:1-3

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

and

I Corinthians 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[oatmeal]

Claiming to know if anyone is "saved" or not is a tall order and bordering near presumptuous, also granting that various interpretations, qualifications and definitions for 'terms' exist, even within Christendom, so this is an area I would tread carefully upon no matter how 'orthodox' one assumes their doctrine is, much is still open to personal belief, opinion and assumptions.

You're also making your assessment above on a few dialogues we've had in the main Religion forum on 'resurrection', where I exposit on a more metaphysical figurative 'resurrection', a spiritual one more particularly for this is what Paul teaches in some verses anyways, for one resurrected arises in a spiritual body. - 1 Corinthians 15

The resurrection of Jesus was spiritual, in a spirit body although he could appear more physical to make appearances to his disciples and do things that a resurrected physical body could not do outside of supernatural powers. Therefore a physical resurrection is not necessary from various perspectives, while a spiritual one is essential, and what indeed happens upon the death of the physical body....the spirit rises. (We would further add that 'resurrection' includes the rising to new life in the Spirirt, a rebirth thru divine love, a putting on of immortality, merging as one with the Lord. - this is essentially a spiritual activity, not a carnal one.)

Re: Romans 10:9 - Paul's mention of being 'saved' is one of his own definition further based on his own 'spin' or 'translation' of Deuteronomy 30:12, where YHWH is actually telling his people they have full capacity and ability to obey his laws, since it is in their mouth and their hearts. Paul challenges that and reverses the divine profession to support his own teaching, in other words "never mind what Moses told you to do, just believe my gospel".

Other OT verses Paul uses are basic to a universal faith in God, as in trusting in Deity and calling upon the name of God, truly any theist or spiritualist accepts these principles.

Therefore without knowing me personally, the full extent of my spiritual journey and religious experience thus far for almost 5 decades, neither having read my entire library so far of religious/philosophical commentary, you could not really know if I was 'saved' or not beyond some particular exclusive qualification, bias, dogma or belief based upon predefined terms and conclusions.

Since God is love and looks at the heart, God knows every heart and soul and knows the extent or quality of their salvation, and surely knows those who call upon him, regardless of their race, color, creed, religion or culture. As one continues his search for truth, goodness and beauty, inspired by love and wisdom, God certainly leads and guides his path since He is their source.

Regardless,

Those who have received the gift of eternal life can know and should know

I John 5:13