WHO IS GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

God's Truth

New member
not long enough and yes He should get even more but has only asked if we Love Him we follow Him

Jesus says if you obey him then that is love.

what are you adding here about morbid? No strangulation and no blood come from the OT and apply to both native and foreigner...nothing new here

You don't make sense. What is adding about morbid?

show me where he ate swine dog or snake...or shrimp...because I can show you where what come from the heart makes one unclean...like what comes from your heart is a desire to eat unclean foods...else why such a fight over this?
Jesus says food doesn't make one unclean. The old law said FOOD CAN MAKE ONE UNCLEAN. The new also says it is what comes out out a person's mouth is what makes him one clean. What you say is not from God. God doesn't say if you eat unclean meat you have an unclean heart!

no rest freedom or peace in error...you are not only in error but rediculous thinking draining all the blood from a dog makes it clean meat to eat...

Well, now you are going beyond the farm animals raised for eating and beyond sea animals. Remember that ignorant thing you said earlier about cannibalism. You just have to be absurd and have the nerve to call me ridiculous.

I read the rest of scripture is why I understood Peter’s translation for that very vision...he states not once but twice...the vision is about the unclean goyim now clean to be taught the gospel...NOTHING about “we can eat pork now...what does dog taste like...just drain the snake of blood all good”
What did God say to Peter after Peter said what he did?

which ARE a shadow...multiple things are a shadow and still binding as good things are still to come..

You keep fighting the truth that says the SHADOW IS OF JESUS' BODY.

.just like heaven and earth are NOT passed until ALL is fulfilled thus ALL is NOT fulfilled...

Jesus said what is written must be fulfilled:

Luke 24:44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

Jesus said it was reaching fulfillment:

Luke 22:37 It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

Jesus said he must finish.

John 4:34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

Jesus says he was finishing.

John 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.

Jesus says he finished.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.


if you dont know the scripture how can you help me with it...Paul kept Passover they all met for Pentecost...poor Stephen called it the church in the wilderness...

You don't know the scriptures and refuse to give the scripture references after you speak them in your words and change them up unrecognizable .


not everybody did what God said to do because they did NOT have faith first...
The old law was NOT based on faith and MANY JEWS did the PURIFICATION works of the law which were the laws that could include them as a child of God.

lose faith then disobey...

actually those saved WANT TO obey they do not have to....

A person has to obey to be saved.

I don't care how much you want to, only the one that obeys does right.


you wish to squabble over what you think we HAVE to obey...

Jesus' words are powerful and beautiful.

over jots and tittles that still remain as heaven and earth have NOT passed away...

But yes...Right...faith first then obey...

No such thing. We have to obey and have faith, or have faith and obey.
 

KerimF

New member
I wouldn't say that. The whole Bible new and old testament is about how to love.

There is no such love as unconditional love from God.

I am afraid that you have to define/see God's Love much like how men define Justice on earth.
And I am not against this. Believers of any faith like seeing their God looking for worshipers, if not slaves as all my Muslim friends are supposed to believe.

On my side, since I trust (love), to no limit, the One Will/Power that created me and, therefore, I have no reason not to take care of anyone, I may meet and who may ask for help (as I do to myself, and no matter if his role in life is to be my friend or enemy), I don't need any rule to obey. In fact, the Holy Spirit, I have accepted in me since I was teen, guides me, whenever necessary, to live the unconditional love towards all others... in the world's jungle :)

In brief, 'Love' to you means 'Obey'. 'Love' to me means 'Trust'.
 

God's Truth

New member
I am afraid that you have to define/see God's Love much like how men define Justice on earth.

Not sure what you are talking about. Could you explain it better?

And I am not against this. Believers of any faith like seeing their God looking for worshipers, if not slaves as all my Muslim friends are supposed to believe.
There is only one God and we have to do what Jesus says to do.
Are you claiming to be a Christian? Do you obey Jesus?
On my side, since I trust (love), to no limit, the One Will/Power that created me and, therefore, I have no reason not to take care of anyone, I may meet and who may ask for help (as I do to myself, and no matter if his role in life is to be my friend or enemy), I don't need any rule to obey. In fact, the Holy Spirit, I have accepted in me since I was teen, guides me, whenever necessary, to live the unconditional love towards all others... in the world's jungle :)

In brief, 'Love' to you means 'Obey'. 'Love' to me means 'Trust'.

I go by what Jesus says, not what man says. Jesus says obey is love.
 

KerimF

New member
I go by what Jesus says, not what man says. Jesus says obey is love.

Of course, you are free to believe whatever you like. And perhaps the confusion comes from the imperfection of languages.
For example, The English word 'commandment' is translated on my Arabic Gospel much like an 'advice' given by a loving father to his beloved adult children and not a command (as in an army).
Me too, I go by what Jesus says, not what man says. Jesus says, in Arabic, trust is love :)

By the way, in reality, one may obey (usually because of fear) a powerful king and hate him at the same time. On the other hand, if one trusts another, this surely means that he loves him (there is no other possibility). After all, obeying is much easier than trusting... but this is another topic.
 

God's Truth

New member
Of course, you are free to believe whatever you like. And perhaps the confusion comes from the imperfection of languages.

Jesus tells us simply.

For example, The English word 'commandment' is translated on my Arabic Gospel much like an 'advice' given by a loving father to his beloved adult children and not a command (as in an army).
Makes no difference.
Me too, I go by what Jesus says, not what man says. Jesus says, in Arabic, trust is love :)

Of course we have to trust God, so trust Him when He says to obey Him is love.

I can prove it easily to obey is love. Tell me, is it love if you cheat on your wife? Is it love if you are fantasizing about other women? Is it love if you are harsh with your kids? If you are a drunk and a drug addict is that love?

Do you see now how obeying is love? Do you see how even obeying by trusting Jesus LIKE HE TELLS US TO DO is love by obedience?

By the way, in reality, one may obey (usually because of fear)

I take pleasure in the fear of the Lord. It helps one to stop sinning.

a powerful king and hate him at the same time. On the other hand, if one trusts another, this surely means that he loves him (there is no other possibility).

Don't forget that trusting God is a command.

After all, obeying is much easier than trusting... but this is another topic.

Exodus 14:31 And when the Israelites saw the mighty hand of the Lord displayed against the Egyptians, the people feared the Lord and put their trust in him and in Moses his servant.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

There are so many more.

Tell me, with what are you trusting in Him?

We are supposed to trust Him by doing what He tells us to do even when we don't understand why.

God gives salvation and understanding to those who trust what He says and obeying what He says is the ONLY WAY TO SHOW YOU TRUST HIM.
 

KerimF

New member
I can prove it easily to obey is love. Tell me, is it love if you cheat on your wife? Is it love if you are fantasizing about other women? Is it love if you are harsh with your kids? If you are a drunk and a drug addict is that love?
You are right but you missed one point. Whoever is able to trust, to no limit, God (actually God's Love, as revealed by Jesus), he hurts his soul (born of God's Spirit) in the first place, anytime he hurts anyone else (even in the name of Justice). On the other hand, one may become a drug addict for not having a chance to trust even himself.

I take pleasure in the fear of the Lord. It helps one to stop sinning.
Don't forget that trusting God is a command.
Then, you do well if the fear of the Lord can stop you hurting others. I even beg you not to stop this fear anytime.
On my side and as I mentioned earlier, I avoid hurting anyone in my life because this hurts my soul too. And my soul is the only precious pearl I have in life and for which I am ready to sell anything else to keep feeding it by the joy of true love towards all others. As you see, I believe and live Jesus Love not to please Him (or God if you like) but to please myself :)

And when the Israelites saw the mighty hand of the Lord displayed against the Egyptians, the people feared the Lord and put their trust in him and in Moses his servant.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
There are so many more.
I thought we agreed already that Jews/Israelis are supposed to fear God and obey God's rules that were inspired to their Prophets.

Tell me, with what are you trusting in Him?

I trust fully my Creator by seeing in 'every' happening, without exceptions, in His created world His Wisdom and Love. Could you? I doubt :)
Yes, without getting the true and complete knowledge about Life Reality (thanks to Jesus, this became possible, to me in the least), it is rather too hard for someone to trust fully his Creator in all created things and events. This is why, it is normal that Atheists exist for example. In other words, without being saved from my ignorance with which I was born (thanks to Jesus), I couldn't be free by perceiving God's Love always and live it as well.
 

clefty

New member
Jesus says if you obey him then that is love.
yup...so work for six days and rest the seventh...the whole day...as He loved you JUST AS...according to His Father’s will



You don't make sense. What is adding about morbid?
most of the world and christians too do not think it morbid to eat meat strangled or with blood in it...you add morbidity to a processs most common and to a text that does NOT


Jesus says food doesn't make one unclean. The old law said FOOD CAN MAKE ONE UNCLEAN. The new also says it is what comes out out a person's mouth is what makes him one clean. What you say is not from God. God doesn't say if you eat unclean meat you have an unclean heart!
Peter didnt think so...I am with Peter...better we listen to Yah than you your traditions



Well, now you are going beyond the farm animals raised for eating and beyond sea animals. Remember that ignorant thing you said earlier about cannibalism. You just have to be absurd and have the nerve to call me ridiculous.
People eat deer boar pheasant etc...keep moving goal posts is all you can do...what remains absurd is you thinking you can NOT strangle swine and drain it of its blood and it becomes clean to eat...


What did God say to Peter after Peter said what he did?
Peter interpreted this vision TWICE...neither tie did he make it about eating bacon...but that it was about preaching the gospel to people like you...previously unclean goyim



You keep fighting the truth that says the SHADOW IS OF JESUS' BODY.
do you even read greek?

https://www.cogwriter.com/news/churc...the-holy-days/

Paul writes “...these are a shadow of good things to come...” you equate Him to a thing...that is absurd...and morbid

Jesus said what is written must be fulfilled:
Luke 24:44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

Jesus said it was reaching fulfillment:

Luke 22:37 It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

Jesus said he must finish.

John 4:34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

Jesus says he was finishing.

John 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.

Jesus says he finished.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
did heaven and earth pass away? You sure ALL goods have come? Nothing else He gonna do for you?...again absurd and morbid


You don't know the scriptures and refuse to give the scripture references after you speak them in your words and change them up unrecognizable .
What do you need me to clarify? Paul kept Passover even Peter kept kosher...have the faith OF Yahushua not just IN Him


The old law was NOT based on faith and MANY JEWS did the PURIFICATION works of the law which were the laws that could include them as a child of God.
Ever read the chapter 11 of Hebrews...the hall of fame faith heroes...?

I mean how morbid is is to do something for someone you DO NOT have faith in? To sacrifice to WITHOUT belief? Absurd indeed!



A person has to obey to be saved.

I don't care how much you want to, only the one that obeys does right.
I agree...you however change what when and how obedience is demonstrated...and wanting to obey is a spirit WILLING despite the weakness of flesh...repentance and forgiveness awaits for failure...




Jesus' words are powerful and beautiful.
yes...FOLLOW ME...AS I loved you...JUST AS...according to His Father’s Will...writing on our hearts and minds...and NOT just 9/10ths



No such thing. We have to obey and have faith, or have faith and obey.
ever sing Trust and Obey? No other way...working six days resting the seventh day...
 

KerimF

New member
My Creator gave me a human brain (as all other humans have) to find out what is good for me; like what to eat and drink, besides many other things related to my body.
Even all non-human living things are pre-programmed (via their instincts) to know how to take care of their living structure.

But, when I was a kid (after being born totally ignorant as any other human baby is), I needed some loving adults (like my parents) to take care of my body first, then, help me take the right decisions about what is good for me so that, when adult, I could have a healthy clean living flesh. This is exactly what God did to the ancient people (among the kids of humanity) who were chosen to welcome Jesus... then crucify Him :)
So even in these days, if one looks to have a healthy clean body, he just needs following God teachings/rules that were addressed to the ancient Jews/Israelis (though there are similar rules in Islam, a replica of some of them).

Jesus came to save my soul (not my mortal flesh) by giving me the necessary knowledge (being the perfect Light of Knowledge) so that I can feed my soul properly and let its joy grow here on earth and for eternity in God's Realm... Love's Realm.
 

God's Truth

New member
You are right but you missed one point. Whoever is able to trust, to no limit, God (actually God's Love, as revealed by Jesus), he hurts his soul (born of God's Spirit) in the first place, anytime he hurts anyone else (even in the name of Justice). On the other hand, one may become a drug addict for not having a chance to trust even himself.
To disobey God is to not love yourself or others.
Then, you do well if the fear of the Lord can stop you hurting others. I even beg you not to stop this fear anytime.
It helps everyone. It is scripture.
Isaiah 11:3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.
On my side and as I mentioned earlier, I avoid hurting anyone in my life because this hurts my soul too. And my soul is the only precious pearl I have in life and for which I am ready to sell anything else to keep feeding it by the joy of true love towards all others. As you see, I believe and live Jesus Love not to please Him (or God if you like) but to please myself
…but notice how you change the scriptures? You call your life a precious pearl, but the Bible calls salvation the pearl. Notice how you say ‘not to please Him but to please yourself’? That is not what the Bible says it is against what the Bible says. The Bible says to please God.
See, you wouldn’t be going against God if you would obey Him, and it proves you don’t just know as you claimed before.
Ephesians 5:10 and find out what pleases the Lord.
Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
I thought we agreed already that Jews/Israelis are supposed to fear God and obey God's rules that were inspired to their Prophets.
No one can be saved and called a true Christian until they get Jesus’ teachings and obey them.
Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
I trust fully my Creator by seeing in 'every' happening, without exceptions, in His created world His Wisdom and Love. Could you? I doubt ]
What do you doubt? That scripture is about living to please Jesus by obeying, by dying to the sins of the world. You are the one who says you don’t live to please Jesus. I hope you get straightened out and learn the truth better. Being saved doesn't mean you can change up the words of God to be put in your own word that go against the word of God.
Yes, without getting the true and complete knowledge about Life Reality (thanks to Jesus, this became possible, to me in the least), it is rather too hard for someone to trust fully his Creator in all created things and events. This is why, it is normal that Atheists exist for example. In other words, without being saved from my ignorance with which I was born (thanks to Jesus), I couldn't be free by perceiving God's Love always and live it as well.
I speak what Jesus says and you say you doubt…so you have things things to learn and hopefully you won’t reject the truth.
 

KerimF

New member
I wish you, God's Truth; know that I am not against your fear and obedience of God in any way.
Almost all my friends, Jewish, Muslim and formal Christian, also cannot imagine they can live properly without having fear of the Supreme Ruler, their God (or Allah).

By the way, I feel real sad about myself if someone tells me: "I fear you""; no matter the level of his fear is. He actually tries telling me:

You are not the man I can trust, your personal interests come first always,
or
You are weak to control yourself so you may hurt me unintentionally anytime,

So I hope God doesn't take the fear of Him as I do :D
 

clefty

New member
i
The Church is the New Israel. The church has traditionally understood itself to be the new Israel. Just as Israel was God’s people in the Old Testament, the Church is his people now, and to many in our culture, this sounds extremely arrogant and possibly even anti-Semitic. It seems like we’re saying that God has rejected the Jews and chosen a new people to replace them. However, that couldn’t be further from the truth.

With St. Paul, the Church affirms that God has not rejected his people from the Old Testament (Romans 11:1-2), and the way we understand our position as the new Israel involves a lot more nuance than simply saying that the Church has replaced the Jews in God’s eyes. So what exactly does this mean? How exactly can we say that we are the new Israel without disparaging the “old” Israel?

God may have separated the Israelites from their neighbors in the past (Leviticus 20:26), he did not want them to remain that way forever. No, his ultimate goal was for the rest of the world to one day join them and become part of his people too. He wanted Israel to grow to encompass the entire human race and become a multi-ethnic and multi-national family that worshipped him and lived in accordance with his law.

And today, we call that family the Church. As St. Paul explains, Israel is like a tree. The Jews of Jesus’ day, as ethnic Israelites, were all natural branches in this tree, and any Gentiles (non-Jews) who join the Church are like branches that are cut off from other trees and grafted into Israel. On the flipside, the Jews who rejected Jesus were cut off from their own family tree (Romans 11:17-24). As a result, we can see that the Church doesn’t simply replace Israel; rather, in a very real sense, the Church is Israel. It is the multi-ethnic and multi-national family made up of both Jews and Gentiles that the Old Testament prophets always said Israel would one day become.

But we have to tread carefully here. As I said, the Jews who rejected Jesus were cut off from the “tree” of Israel, and this can still sound anti-Semitic if we don’t understand their history in the Bible. The Old Testament, the Scriptures of the Israelites themselves, is essentially the story of their continual disobedience and rebellion against God. Time and time again, they rejected God’s laws and went after other deities, and it eventually got so bad that God told a large portion of them, “[Y]ou are not my people and I am not your God” (Hosea 1:9). Then, in the very next verse, he promised to eventually save them and make them his people once again at some point in the future (Hosea 1:10).

This tells us that God always loves and cares for Israel, but large portions of the nation can cut themselves off from him and become, in a very real sense, no longer his people. And that’s exactly what happened during the time of Jesus. The majority of Jews rejected him, so they cut themselves off from God. As a result, when we say that they were no longer his people, we are saying nothing that the Old Testament, the Scriptures of Israel, didn’t already say. We are being no more anti-Semitic than Hosea or any of the other prophets of ancient Israel. Furthermore, along with the Old Testament, the Church also affirms that God still loves those Israelites who have been cut off from his people. Just as Hosea said that God would one day rescue his wayward children, so too do we affirm that the Jews even to this day are still “beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable” (Romans 11:28-29; see Nostra Aetate 4).

The New Israel’s Vocation
Given that the Church truly is Israel, what practical consequences does this have for our spiritual lives? What difference does it make that we are God’s people just like the ethnic Israelites were in the Old Testament? In a nutshell, it means that we have inherited the vocation of ancient Israel. In the Old Testament, God said that he chose Israel to be his “own possession among all peoples…me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exodus 19:5-6). Now, this description of Israel’s vocation may seem rather opaque to us 21st century Americans, but it would have made perfect sense to its original audience.

The key is that the Israelites were supposed to be God’s priests in the midst of the nations. We normally think of priests as people who celebrate Mass and run parishes, but the office is actually much broader than that. A priest is essentially someone who mediates between God and humanity. He stands before God as a representative of the people and before the people as a representative of God. More specifically, in ancient Israel, priests taught the people God’s laws (Leviticus 10:11) and blessed them (Numbers 6:22-27), so that’s what the Israelites were supposed to do. They were supposed to teach the surrounding nations God’s laws and impart His blessing to them. In other words, they were supposed to evangelize the rest of mankind and bring them back to the worship of the one true God.

And as the new Israel, we now have this same vocation. In fact, the New Testament describes the Church in a way that calls to mind what God said about Israel in Exodus: “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light” (1 Peter 2:9). Just as Israel was God’s “own possession…a kingdom of priests and a holy nation,” so too is the Church “a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people.” Furthermore, this verse even tells us what this means: just like the Israelites in the Old Testament, Christians today are God’s priests in the midst of the human race in order to “declare the wonderful deeds” of God. We’re supposed to evangelize the rest of mankind and bring them back to the worship of the one true God.

We’re All Missionaries
Now, this doesn’t mean that we all have to become professional missionaries and go to faraway lands preaching to people who have never heard about Jesus before. Some people are called to do that, but most of us are called to spread the Gospel in much less dramatic ways. We are supposed to evangelize however we can, using whatever opportunities God gives us. Sometimes that simply means showing our faith through our loving actions, and sometimes that means having to speak up and explain or defend the faith when people ask questions or bash the Church. Simply put, we all have to prudently discern how we can best spread the Gospel and bring others to Christ, thereby fulfilling our vocation as the new Israel to be God’s priestly people among the nations.

https://catholicexchange.com/church-new-israel

This remains a significant post despite its deception.

It did not make clear that since V2 this church no longer seeks to convert Jews allowing they still have their own way and NOT through Him and Him alone...

Add to that the continued evil of having claimed the authority to change both times and Law thus defying the Most High. Dan 7:25

How are we to evangelize the rest of mankind if Jews are “protected” from the gospel and rightfully balk at all the changes that have occured since the first century church? It was anti semitism that divorced this Church from His manner of living...the faith OF Yahushua.

The gospel now most evangelize is at best a misrepresentation of Him and at worst an abomination to Him.

Even Peter would not recognize what has become of what was founded on him...

Especially those misguided by the V2 spirit who now even claim that to them it was not dispensed to model true worship in teaching and practice AS HE LIVED AND ASKED US TO FOLLOW.

Again...the Most High was and is defied by the changing of His times and Law.

His people come out of Babylon and seek true restoration...as it was in Eden...even without a Temple...

Mercy rather than sacrifice...love JUST AS He loved...follow Him His Way...keep the commandments of Yah and have the Faith OF Yahushua...

HalleluYah
 

God's Truth

New member
I wish you, God's Truth; know that I am not against your fear and obedience of God in any way.
Almost all my friends, Jewish, Muslim and formal Christian, also cannot imagine they can live properly without having fear of the Supreme Ruler, their God (or Allah).

By the way, I feel real sad about myself if someone tells me: "I fear you""; no matter the level of his fear is. He actually tries telling me:

You are not the man I can trust, your personal interests come first always,
or
You are weak to control yourself so you may hurt me unintentionally anytime,

So I hope God doesn't take the fear of Him as I do :D

Well you are seeing negativity in God's word and only seeing it in human terms' but, I tell you, I wish my kids would have feared their parents more.
 

KerimF

New member
I wish my kids would have feared their parents more.

You are totally right in this. And this what God did. God played the role of good parents while guiding His people, chosen to welcome and crucify Jesus (the Living Word of God). So God has insisted continuously that the ancient Jews/Israelis should follow and obey his commands and rules without questioning.

And, in these days, if anyone sees himself as one of the ancient kids of humanity, he has no choice but to obey God of Israel (or any other god approved by the men in charge of the religious system to which he belongs).

It happens that I am no more a kid :) So, unlike kids, I have the free will to love and trust (or obey with fear as if I were a kid) God (the One Will/Power of the Father in Heaven and Jesus, unified by the Holy Spirit) and even live God's Love on earth towards all others to live the joy of God's Realm, now and for eternity.
.
 

clefty

New member
You are totally right in this. And this what God did. God played the role of good parents while guiding His people, chosen to welcome and crucify Jesus (the Living Word of God). So God has insisted continuously that the ancient Jews/Israelis should follow and obey his commands and rules without questioning.

And, in these days, if anyone sees himself as one of the ancient kids of humanity, he has no choice but to obey God of Israel (or any other god approved by the men in charge of the religious system to which he belongs).

It happens that I am no more a kid :) So, unlike kids, I have the free will to love and trust (or obey with fear as if I were a kid) God (the One Will/Power of the Father in Heaven and Jesus, unified by the Holy Spirit) and even live God's Love on earth towards all others to live the joy of God's Realm, now and for eternity.
.

Earthly parents often demand more return for their investment having attempted friendship and any thing goes...

The irony is that even He the Almighty One had/has to earn that Love

Love to be free and true can NOT be coerced by meanness (fear...you will be tormented here and forever after) or bribe (cheap grace/love good life here and gold streets there)...

We are to testify to a rejecting world that indeed Yah is a good God worthy of our love and obedience...and by our love and obedience...to Him His way

and not by our own devices in compromise
 

God's Truth

New member
You are totally right in this. And this what God did. God played the role of good parents while guiding His people, chosen to welcome and crucify Jesus (the Living Word of God). So God has insisted continuously that the ancient Jews/Israelis should follow and obey his commands and rules without questioning.

And, in these days, if anyone sees himself as one of the ancient kids of humanity, he has no choice but to obey God of Israel (or any other god approved by the men in charge of the religious system to which he belongs).

It happens that I am no more a kid :) So, unlike kids, I have the free will to love and trust (or obey with fear as if I were a kid) God (the One Will/Power of the Father in Heaven and Jesus, unified by the Holy Spirit) and even live God's Love on earth towards all others to live the joy of God's Realm, now and for eternity.
.

If you don't obey God, you will not be saved, period.
 

KerimF

New member
Earthly parents often demand more return for their investment having attempted friendship and any thing goes...
The irony is that even He the Almighty One had/has to earn that Love
Love to be free and true can NOT be coerced by meanness (fear...you will be tormented here and forever after) or bribe (cheap grace/love good life here and gold streets there)...
We are to testify to a rejecting world that indeed Yah is a good God worthy of our love and obedience...and by our love and obedience...to Him His way
and not by our own devices in compromise

It happens that I can't even imagine that the Creator of the huge universe (and the zillion living things in my body that are working all by themselves to keep me alive since my birth) may need anything from a tiny creature, as my being.

My Creator doesn't need my love and/or my trust. It is me who needs to learn how one can feed his soul to deserve the everlasting life in God's Realm; Love's Realm (as revealed by Jesus). This is why Jesus came to be the Light of Knowledge that helps me walk on the right Path that leads me to Him and the Father in Heaven, even while I am on earth.
I guess you noticed already that I am no more of this world :)

Sorry friends, this is how I am and anyone has the right to crucify me for being so... as it happened to Jesus and many others when they were judged by the world's justice.
 

clefty

New member
It happens that I can't even imagine that the Creator of the huge universe (and the zillion living things in my body that are working all by themselves to keep me alive since my birth) may need anything from a tiny creature, as my being.

He needs just your love and faithfulness...

Please recall what the issue is

Satan wished to be like God supplant Him thinking he could do better...convinced 1/3 of the angels...so now the watching universe waits...is God good? Good enough for our voluntary worship? Or is Satan right?

We by our witness and testimony determine this.

...even God needs a worshiper...to be a husband a man needs a wife....to be a father he needs a woman a son/daughter...

artists need an audience...like a voice needs breath...ear sound...eye light...etc



My Creator doesn't need my love and/or my trust.
even a radio transmitter needs a receiver...

you havent really thought this out perhaps?

if the Creator made everything to worship Him like a robot...is that worship? To obey Him because they were built to do so?

Is that really love?

Or if the Creator manipulated with hell fire torment forever and ever... is that Love Mercy Justice?...or if He bribed with eternal riches?

Love must be voluntary...it does not fall forever like sunshine on both evil and good


It is me who needs to learn how one can feed his soul to deserve the everlasting life in God's Realm; Love's Realm (as revealed by Jesus). This is why Jesus came to be the Light of Knowledge that helps me walk on the right Path that leads me to Him and the Father in Heaven, even while I am on earth.
ok then realize that where He is there is no killing no stealing no adultery no lyin no dishonor of elders no coveting no making images no vain use of His Name no worship of another God...hmmmm that is 9 of the commandments...oh yes of course...6 days work a 7th day Sabbath off...and when we are restored to Him again this is how we will live here in the new earth...

I guess you noticed already that I am no more of this world :)
no not really sorry...different yes...odd perhaps but well... free will humans right? LOL

Sorry friends, this is how I am and anyone has the right to crucify me for being so... as it happened to Jesus and many others when they were judged by the world's justice.
no need to apology for who you are...obviously He needs you the way you are for some reason...good sense of humor that One...
 

KerimF

New member
He needs just your love and faithfulness...
Please recall what the issue is
Satan wished to be like God supplant Him thinking he could do better...convinced 1/3 of the angels...so now the watching universe waits...is God good? Good enough for our voluntary worship? Or is Satan right?
We by our witness and testimony determine this.
...even God needs a worshiper...to be a husband a man needs a wife....to be a father he needs a woman a son/daughter...
artists need an audience...like a voice needs breath...ear sound...eye light...etc

I hope I got why we, here, think differently about love and obey. So please correct me if I didn't.
The God, I know,, thanks to 'Jesus only', is not 'one being' (good Jews, good Muslims and even modern Pagans are supposed to see their God as One Supernatural Being).

If it happened that I also see God as 'one being of His kind' (for example, like Allah of Islam), I would have no choice but to also believe that He needs my love because He cannot love Himself :) and, to Him, love has to be expressed by obedience and worship.


even a radio transmitter needs a receiver...
you havent really thought this out perhaps?
if the Creator made everything to worship Him like a robot...is that worship? To obey Him because they were built to do so?
Is that really love?
Or if the Creator manipulated with hell fire torment forever and ever... is that Love Mercy Justice?...or if He bribed with eternal riches?
Love must be voluntary...it does not fall forever like sunshine on both evil and good

Every living thing which has only a living flesh to take care of is indeed a God's robot which has no choice but following the instructions that are embedded already in his own structure.
This is why I don't see good and evil persons, I just see them different and each of them is created to fulfil one or more purposes in the 'material' world by building it or destroying it as well.

Only those who are able perceiving in their structure another living thing (soul) which is defined by a different set of natural rules, have the free will to feed their soul for eternity (this requires opposing many of their crucial instincts) or let it die and enjoy their temporary life, the way they like, till they return to the state of void, the state before Creation.


ok then realize that where He is there is no killing no stealing no adultery no lyin no dishonor of elders no coveting no making images no vain use of His Name no worship of another God...hmmmm that is 9 of the commandments...oh yes of course...6 days work a 7th day Sabbath off...and when we are restored to Him again this is how we will live here in the new earth...

Sorry, it seems you missed adding... no coronavirus, no cancer, no tsunami, no earthquakes... :) I mean all what you mentioned here is, we like it or not, in God's plan too. Jesus explained it, though indirectly, by revealing appropriate natural truths about how the world runs in reality (the way it is designed).

Although It is a rather big topic (Science of Life Reality, revealed by Jesus), I can give one example, to calm your curiosity :)
As you know, one of Jesus advices is:

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

This advice would sound nonsense to me if God doesn't create any person in the world to play my enemy, to curse me, hate me and/or persecute me.
Thanks God, I had the chance to meet many people who had to play these roles against me. They helped me feed my soul with real joy of Love.
 
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