by experiencing both
by experiencing both
by experiencing both
:think:
how did you choose to believe that you were heterosexual instead of homosexual (if that is indeed how you choose to identify yourself)?
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Who Here Chose To Be Heterosexual?
- Thread starter Arthur Brain
- Start date
by experiencing both
by experiencing both
by experiencing both
:think:
how did you choose to believe that you were heterosexual instead of homosexual (if that is indeed how you choose to identify yourself)?
You could say the same thing for arsonists or drug addicts, but it doesn't really change that they still choose to do what they do out of unhinged desire rather then by an inescapable, biological abnormality.
Speaking of biology and inclinations, let's go to the fundamentals which Augustine expounds on:
Adam and Eve fell into disobedience because already they were secretly corrupted; for an evil act has never been done before an evil will preceded it. And what is the origin of our evil will but pride? For 'pride is the beginning of sin'. And what is pride but the craving for undue exaltation? And this is undue exaltation, when the soul abandons Him to whom it ought to cleave as it's end, and becomes a kind of end to itself.
Of the evil of lust- So possessing is lust that from the moment it is consummated all mental activity is suspended. What friend of holy wisdom and joys, who, being married, but knowing, as the apostle says, 'how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor, not in the disease of desire, as the Gentiles who know not God', would not prefer, if it were possible, to beget children without this lust but rather acted in volition?
Basically, Augustine concludes that out of Adam and Eve's disobedience, the soul became unable to control the body's desires.
The entire point of Christianity is to try and gain that control, not call unchained desires hopeless or that they can't live in the way God intended.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
How do you choose to construct a strawman? A lot of the above would involve rational processes such as college, buying cars etc. Others not so much as I doubt many people "choose" to recover from a relationship gone sour or the loss of one, in much the same way that people don't choose who they fall in love with.
If you're heterosexual then you can certainly act on lust - but there's only one gender that would inform any action and that would be the opposite one. Trying to equate the above with somehow 'choosing to be attracted' to the same gender in order to act on such is just ludicrous.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
As already pointed out to you it's pretty difficult to engage in such behaviour if there's no attraction there to actually act upon. Unless you think you could start 'choosing' to find other blokes attractive then you've really made no point at all.
You might argue the inclination is there by one or the other, sure.
I'd never argue that preferences necessitate action, though I'd reject your "unhinged" as that could be seen as mitigating responsibility.
It would rather seem that the soul was already unable to control given the conduct considered. But in any event an interesting side bar that doesn't really impact our essential if incomplete agreement, supra.
'The "as" was extraneous. Well, maybe not in your case.
lain:The same way I know you're a bad guy, natures express themselves. I desired females, you desire to post the sort of nonsense that reveals your low character.
Easy-peasy.
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being heterosexual is natural.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Well, it is a strawman only if you do not believe in free will, that is, an ability to choose between whatever options are available to you, whether you know all of them or not.
How do people draw children into vans?
How do child molesters coerce children into not telling anyone?
How did you decide to reply to my post?
If you think believing God or not believing God is a choice that individuals make, then the next issue is what is that they believe and why?
Or if you wish believing God or believing something else.
How did you choose your username?
How do young people get seduced?
How do people fall for scams?
Why do kids believe in Santa Claus? or Confucius or that Paris is in France?
oatmeal
Well-known member
That is so,
and I might add that:
Choosing to remain natural is a decision.
Choosing to eat because you are hungry is a decision.
Choosing what to eat is a decision or how much to eat
Choosing whether to eat junk or good food is a decision
Choosing to satisfy sexual hunger by natural means or perverted means is a decision.
Every moment we live we can make decisions or forego making decisions, either way we decide.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
You're still constructing the exact same strawman 'argument'. I'm not denying that certain acts or behaviours are voluntary or that everything is beyond human control. I can choose all manner of things of my own volition and also whether to act on such but other things are simply beyond any such thing as conscious choice.
I've never chosen to fall in love.
I've never chosen to find peanut butter unpalatable.
By the same token I could not 'choose' to start finding my own gender intimately desirable as I can only find women attractive on such a level and any lusts I may or may not act upon could only involve the opposite sex. Are you trying to argue that I could 'choose' differently?
Doubling down then.
lain:
Also a homosexual, as were a lot of mass murderers in history.
Once they admit they hate people for who they are, the bigots will at least be a lot more honest.
You don't, because being heterosexual is natural.
How do you choose to use your limbs?
How do you choose to be an alcoholic?
How do you choose to grow a different hair color than you have?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I choose to use my limbs through practical necessity.
There's all manner of reasons why people become addicted to alcohol so it's not as simple as being clear cut.
Considering how much hair I have left deciding to dye it would be a pretty pointless endeavour...
Heterosexuality is certainly the natural state for me and as such I have zero attraction to anyone that isn't of the opposite sex, so to 'choose' to act on a desire that simply isn't there is impossible.
Meaning they work naturally.
Everyone who drinks or drinks in excess is not an alcoholic. No one chooses to be an alcoholic. They either are one or not, and not all alcoholics drink.
Irregardless, some people choose things that are not natural.
Heterosexuality is certainly the natural state for me and as such I have zero attraction to anyone that isn't of the opposite sex, so to 'choose' to act on a desire that simply isn't there is impossible.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
In my case and the majority yes. For others not so much.
Quite, there isn't one sole definition of alcoholism and there are a myriad reasons why someone can become one.
Perhaps but homosexuality isn't a chosen option for a heterosexual. It can't be.
So? I know I do, daily....I'm sure you do too..
Do you go to the doctor...or allow nature take it's course upon your body? Do you take those man-made (designed by Big Pharma Inc.) drugs your doctor prescribes?
Do you wear make-up; watch TV; eat fast food or frozen dinners :vomit:; walk instead of ride bike/car/bus/bobsled?
Wow it seems we choose un-natural things quite oft, quite naturally!