Who Died With Christ?

[Ben Masada]

Ben,

Isaiah the prophet recorded that somebody died for the sins of another and that goes against your false theory. You have not refuted that yet. So until you have done your assignment, please stop.

Thank you for assuming that I know the Tanach by heart but I don't. So, please, provide me a quote for what you say above that Isaiah the prophet recorded that somebody died for the sins of another. Read Ezekiel 18:3. "Only the one who sins shall die." Unless the reference in Isaiah is of a people by another but, an individual cannot die for another.

 

[Ben Masada]

Yet only those who overcome evil with good will finally make it to heaven and life eternal. Rev 3:5, 21; 20:15; 21:27

That's not true! No one will take part in eternal life, because, it is naturally impossible to exist without having been born. The reason why Adam & Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden in the allegorical Genesis account of Creation was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. (Genesis 3:22)It means that the attribute of eternity could never be shared with man. Only HaShem lives forever.

 

[Samie]

Thank you for assuming that I know the Tanach by heart but I don't. So, please, provide me a quote for what you say above that Isaiah the prophet recorded that somebody died for the sins of another. Read Ezekiel 18:3. "Only the one who sins shall die." Unless the reference in Isaiah is of a people by another but, an individual cannot die for another.

The verses are in the post pointed to by the link provided. You need to address those verses directly because they directly refute your false theory.

 

[Samie]

That's not true! No one will take part in eternal life, because, it is naturally impossible to exist without having been born. The reason why Adam & Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden in the allegorical Genesis account of Creation was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. (Genesis 3:22)It means that the attribute of eternity could never be shared with man. Only HaShem lives forever.

Sorry for you, Ben. If your theory is true, although I'm sure it's false, then we both will die and you did not gain anything from your belief. But if mine is true, then you'll end up dead forever, but I'll have eternal life. Your choice.

And just for your info, the prophet Daniel recorded a resurrection from the dead, where the righteous are resurrected to life everlasting (Dan 12:1, 2). Don't you want to be among those resurrected with the righteous, Ben? If so, then agree with what the prophet Daniel recorded and let go of your false theory on eternal life.

 

[Samie]

I had been saying what are in Scriptures as to how people are born again. Here for you, Epo, the nth time:

KJV 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

But you exchange God's method with your method.

God's method: He caused people to be born again through the resurrection of Jesus

And because people were born again when Jesus resurrected, it NECESSARILY follows that people are already born again the moment they are physically born: that means they are already In Christ, part of His Body. God's method is all grace. Grace-based salvation. But of us all who are in the Body of Christ, only overcomers will finally make it to heaven and eternal life (Rev 3:5, 21; 21:27).

Epo's method: repent and surrender to be born again

And that means Epo's method teaches that UNLESS people PUT into the basket their share of the deal - repent and surrender, they couldn't be born again; they couldn't be In Christ and therefore remains APART from Him . Clearly works-based salvation. And also against Christ's teaching Who Himself said that APART from Him, man can do NOTHING. But Epo teaches man can do SOMETHING while yet APART from Christ: they can repent and surrender so they can be In Christ.

Never directly refuted from Scriptures.

 

[Ben Masada]

Sorry for you, Ben. If your theory is true, although I'm sure it's false, then we both will die and you did not gain anything from your belief. But if mine is true, then you'll end up dead forever, but I'll have eternal life. Your choice.

And just for your info, the prophet Daniel recorded a resurrection from the dead, where the righteous are resurrected to life everlasting (Dan 12:1, 2). Don't you want to be among those resurrected with the righteous, Ben? If so, then agree with what the prophet Daniel recorded and let go of your false theory on eternal life.

Do you know what's the problem with you Jamie? Your problem is that you are confusing the promise of eternal life in the gospel of Paul with the treats we give to dogs so that they perform well and behave to please their masters. That's true as the dogs are concerned but, as humans are concerned, it does not work. They were born; they must die. Only HaShem Who was never born can live forever. Eternal life for humans would be as boring as hell. To tell you the truth, I would not want it. But I have been thinking some times that if there is, the Lord will grant me with it just for the reason why I don't care for treats to pay for my living a righteous life. Just let me go when my time arrives and I'll be alright today; not then because I'll be unconscious and unaware of the difference.

 

[Ben Masada]

The verses are in the post pointed to by the link provided. You need to address those verses directly because they directly refute your false theory.

The problem is that the verses you provided are good only for yourself. The gospel I follow is the gospel of Jesus, not that of Paul aka the NT.

 

[Samie]

Do you know what's the problem with you Jamie?

Hey, Jamie is not Samie. If you're even confused with names, how can't you be confused with Scriptures?

Your problem is that you are confusing the promise of eternal life in the gospel of Paul

Your problem is you are confusing Paul with Daniel. Are you even aware that apostle Paul is NOT Daniel the prophet? I quoted from Daniel, NOT from Paul. Confused?

Address the verses I quoted from Daniel 12:1, 2. I did not quote Paul in this issue regarding your false belief relative to life everlasting.

 

[Samie]

The problem is that the verses you provided are good only for yourself.

I simply quoted the verses written by the prophet Isaiah. Are you saying Isaiah addressed those verses to me only, that's why you said those verses are only good for myself? You're even more confused now, Ben.

The gospel I follow is the gospel of Jesus

So why don't you believe Jesus when He said He died for others?

 

[Jacob]

So then you believe as I do that ALL died with Christ. And for me, the ALL who died with Him includes the whole of Adam's race, no one exempted nor left out, because Christ died for every man. Heb 2:9

But do you believe as I do that the ALL who died with Him when Christ died were also made alive TOGETHER with Him when He resurrected, as these verses say?:

NAS Ephesians 2:4-5 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

This fact was reiterated by Peter when he said that we were born again through the resurrection of Jesus:

1 Peter 1:3 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

But since you believe all scripture to be true, I guess you believe as I do that ALL died with Him when He died and ALL were made alive TOGETHER with Him when He resurrected.

Shalom.

I can think of the following verse. I found it using a word search using the NASB at blueletterbible.org. Are you talking about how Christ died for all believers or that the word us refers to believers perhaps?

2 Corinthians 5:14.

Shalom.

Jacob