Who Died With Christ?

[Nameless.In.Grace]

No, he says all men are born again when the are born into the world which is patently false. The new birth or conversion happens when we repent and surrender our lives to Christ and receive the Holy Spirit none of which happens at natural birth.

He is referring to this, I believe;

Ecc. 3:11

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Typical Arminian who replaces faith with choice. We believe in Christ we don't choose him. Christ is not my favorite ice cream flavor at Dairy Queen.

These camps of thought are not salvational requirements. They are mere lenses that man strains weak eyes through to strike a grasp at eternity.

These ideas are mere discussions. Grace is our foundation of unity, is it not?

Sent from my HTC One M9 using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Epoisses]

These camps of thought are not salvational requirements. They are mere lenses that man strains weak eyes through to strike a grasp at eternity.

These ideas are mere discussions. Grace is our foundation of unity, is it not?

Sent from my HTC One M9 using TheologyOnline mobile app

Choice and faith are not the same thing. Choice is an act of the will. Faith happens in the heart.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Choice and faith are not the same thing. Choice is an act of the will. Faith happens in the heart.

I understand. But, I'm certain Samie understands faith. He just uses different verbiage. Well, I've never asked them outright about their angle, so I will do this soon.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[marhig]

Yes, all have sinned, including Jesus. (Matthew 23:13-33) God would not contradict His own Prophets. Jesus knew that he was endangering his life as he allowed his disciples to acclaim him king of the Jews in Jerusalem which was a Roman province. BTW, the Pharisees warned him to stop his disciples or he would be arrest. (Luke 19:37-40) They were right because Jesus' verdict was nailed on his cross and it read INRI. That he was dying on a political charge of insurrection. And for those words in John 6:53,54 were not said by Jesus but by the Hellenist former disciple of Paul. Jesus was a Jew and, a Jewish Passover could not be celebrated as Jesus is described to have done.

John 6

When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

John 18

Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault*at all.

This is also in John 18

Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death

The Jews knew they were disobeying God by killing him. And they thought that handing Jesus over they were clean. They were vipers full of wickedness and God won't be mocked. Thou shalt not kill, means just that! They were murderers, not true Jews, the true Jews obeyed God and loved Jesus. Even Pilate could find no fault in him at all! And Jesus said that those who have handed me over to you, have the greater sin!

Then Pilate was determined to let him go

John 19

And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar

But the leaders of the Jews made sure that they were going to have him crucified and used caesar to do it. They were wicked men doing a wicked deed, knowing it was against the commandments of God.

BTW the pharasees warned him to stop because they were envious of him, and because they thought that the whole world would follow him and they knew that many of the Jewish people loved him, so they wanted him out of the way!

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Typical Arminian who replaces faith with choice. We believe in Christ we don't choose him. Christ is not my favorite ice cream flavor at Dairy Queen.

I think Samie states that Jesus chose all of us, but some reject that calling.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Samie]

No, he says all men are born again when the are born into the world which is patently false. The new birth or conversion happens when we repent and surrender our lives to Christ and receive the Holy Spirit none of which happens at natural birth.

You are fond of clipping others position and post them out of tune.

I had been saying what are in Scriptures as to how people are born again. Here for you, Epo, the nth time:

KJV 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

But you exchange God's method with your method.

God's method: He caused people to be born again through the resurrection of Jesus

And because people were born again when Jesus resurrected, it NECESSARILY follows that people are already born again the moment they are physically born: that means they are already In Christ, part of His Body. God's method is all grace. Grace-based salvation. But of us all who are in the Body of Christ, only overcomers will finally make it to heaven and eternal life (Rev 3:5, 21; 21:27).

Epo's method: repent and surrender to be born again

And that means Epo's method teaches that UNLESS people PUT into the basket their share of the deal - repent and surrender, they couldn't be born again; they couldn't be In Christ and therefore remains APART from Him . Clearly works-based salvation. And also against Christ's teaching Who Himself said that APART from Him, man can do NOTHING. But Epo teaches man can do SOMETHING while yet APART from Christ: they can repent and surrender so they can be In Christ.

I hope he soon allows the HS to open his spiritual eyes so he can discern spiritual things.

 

[Samie]

When you posted:

Samie, a sinner can choose to do right a thousand times but they are just ropes of sand. You are an Arminian and your choice gospel is a perversion of the faith.

I replied:

Why can a sinner choose to do right?

Because he is NOT APART from Christ Who said APART from Him man can do NOTHING!!!

You have any aces-up-your-sleeves to refute the words of the Savior, Epo? Or you want to put your words into His mouth?

Your reply came:

Typical Arminian who replaces faith with choice. We believe in Christ we don't choose him. Christ is not my favorite ice cream flavor at Dairy Queen.

You are simply evading issues because your view is scripturally untenable? Address the issues squarely and directly, please.

 

[Epoisses]

You are fond of clipping others position and post them out of tune.

I had been saying what are in Scriptures as to how people are born again. Here for you, Epo, the nth time:

KJV 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

But you exchange God's method with your method.

God's method: He caused people to be born again through the resurrection of Jesus

And because people were born again when Jesus resurrected, it NECESSARILY follows that people are already born again the moment they are physically born: that means they are already In Christ, part of His Body. God's method is all grace. Grace-based salvation. But of us all who are in the Body of Christ, only overcomers will finally make it to heaven and eternal life (Rev 3:5, 21; 21:27).

Epo's method: repent and surrender to be born again

And that means Epo's method teaches that UNLESS people PUT into the basket their share of the deal - repent and surrender, they couldn't be born again; they couldn't be In Christ and therefore remains APART from Him . Clearly works-based salvation. And also against Christ's teaching Who Himself said that APART from Him, man can do NOTHING. But Epo teaches man can do SOMETHING while yet APART from Christ: they can repent and surrender so they can be In Christ.

I hope he soon allows the HS to open his spiritual eyes so he can discern spiritual things.

Jesus said people need to repent and believe the Gospel not me!! Mark 1:15 Rev. 2:5

We are led to repentance by the Holy Spirit so I can never take the credit for it.

You believe in heresy and people are not born again when they are physically born.

All people are given grace when they are born into this world and that grace leads them to repentance and the new birth.

 

[Epoisses]

When you posted:
I replied:
Your reply came:You are simply evading issues because your view is scripturally untenable? Address the issues squarely and directly, please.

You have the typical Arminian choice gospel which is works based. Choice is an act of the will that Paul referred to as will worship in Colossians. It's the Catholic and Baptist gospel.

 

[Samie]

Jesus said people need to repent and believe the Gospel not me!! Mark 1:15 Rev. 2:5

We are led to repentance by the Holy Spirit so I can never take the credit for it.

Change issues again, from born again issue to repentance?
But OK; I'll let you. Why would the HS led you to repentance if you aren't capable in the first place? The HS does not do the repenting for you, Epo.

God asks EVERY MAN to repent (Acts 17:30) because EVERY MAN is CAPABLE of repenting. The fact that EVERY MAN is CAPABLE proves that he is NOT APART from Christ for if APART from Him he can do NOTHING - he is INCAPABLE.

Now that people are In Christ and are CAPABLE of repenting, God asks them to. Empowered first then asked to. But yours is cart before the horse: repent first to be in Christ.

You believe in heresy and people are not born again when they are physically born.

Out of tune again.

People are begotten again or born again when Jesus resurrected (1 Pet 1:3), hence ALREADY born again when physically born. There is a world of difference between your "born again when physically born" and my "ALREADY born again when physically born".

All people are given grace when they are born into this world and that grace leads them to repentance and the new birth.

Wrong again. As per Scriptures, God's grace had been given us BEFORE the foundation of the world.

KJV 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

The new birth occurred when God caused people to be born-again when Jesus resurrected (1 Pet 1:3), that is, made alive TOGETHER with Christ (Eph 2:4-6). But you teach what is contrary to Scriptures: repent first to be In Christ.

Oh Epo, when can you start believing in what Scriptures say?

 

[Samie]

We died when Christ died (2 Cor 5:14, 15) and were made alive TOGETHER with Christ when He rose from the dead (Eph 2:4-6), hence born again when Jesus resurrected (1 Pet 1:3). All grace.

How is it "born again when Christ resurrected" or "made alive TOGETHER with Christ", IF people are born again only when they repent, as Epo teaches?

 

[Samie]

We died when Christ died (2 Cor 5:14, 15) and were made alive TOGETHER with Christ when He rose from the dead (Eph 2:4-6), hence born again when Jesus resurrected (1 Pet 1:3). All grace.

Yet only those who overcome evil with good will finally make it to heaven and life eternal. Rev 3:5, 21; 20:15; 21:27

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Jesus said people need to repent and believe the Gospel not me!! Mark 1:15 Rev. 2:5

We are led to repentance by the Holy Spirit so I can never take the credit for it.

You believe in heresy and people are not born again when they are physically born.

All people are given grace when they are born into this world and that grace leads them to repentance and the new birth.

When you posted:
I replied:
Your reply came:You are simply evading issues because your view is scripturally untenable? Address the issues squarely and directly, please.

It's fun to learn from both of you as iron sharpens iron.

You're both all good in my book.


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

 

[Epoisses]

I have actually known Samie for some time and I am just astonished at how absurd he has become. No Christian in the history of Christians would ever say the new birth happens at physical birth. It's just absurd at face value. Christ is indeed the 2nd Adam and all humanity was in him when he lived a perfect life, died the death of the cross and rose again for our justification. This perfect, finished and complete atonement exists in Christ and is communicated to fallen mankind thru the gospel. We do not receive this free gift until the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin (repentance), we believe the gospel and receive the Holy Spirit (new birth). Samie is 100% wrong and is too proud to admit his error. Most Christians today are not born again so of course the new birth is a mystery to them that they have to invent comic book religion to answer.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

I have actually known Samie for some time and I am just astonished at how absurd he has become. No Christian in the history of Christians would ever say the new birth happens at physical birth. It's just absurd at face value. Christ is indeed the 2nd Adam and all humanity was in him when he lived a perfect life, died the death of the cross and rose again for our justification. This perfect, finished and complete atonement exists in Christ and is communicated to fallen mankind thru the gospel. We do not receive this free gift until the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin (repentance), we believe the gospel and receive the Holy Spirit (new birth). Samie is 100% wrong and is too proud to admit his error. Most Christians today are not born again so of course the new birth is a mystery to them that they have to invent comic book religion to answer.

You both have strong faith in Jesus and His Grace.

Even when you both disagree, strong truths are brought to light in your dialogue.

Just sayen.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Samie]

No Christian in the history of Christians would ever say the new birth happens at physical birth.

For the nth time, new birth happened when Jesus resurrected (1 Pet 1:3), hence, people are ALREADY born again at physical birth.

If you can't even understand me, how could you understand Scriptures, Epo?

 

[Samie]

We died when Christ died (2 Cor 5:14, 15) and were made alive TOGETHER with Christ when He rose from the dead (Eph 2:4-6), hence born again when Jesus resurrected (1 Pet 1:3). All grace.

How is it "born again when Christ resurrected" or "made alive TOGETHER with Christ", IF people are born again only when they repent, as Epo teaches?

Unanswered.

 

[Ben Masada]

We died when Christ died (2 Cor 5:14, 15) and were made alive TOGETHER with Christ when He rose from the dead (Eph 2:4-6), hence born again when Jesus resurrected (1 Pet 1:3). All grace.

How is it "born again when Christ resurrected" or "made alive TOGETHER with Christ", IF people are born again only when they repent, as Epo teaches?

Indeed, thousands of Jews died on the cross when Jesus died but not because of Jesus; Jesus died because his disciples were acclaiming him king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem which was a Roman province at the time. (Luke 19:37-40) Therefore, Jesus was crucified on a political charge of Roman insurrection and, his death on the cross had absolutely nothing to do with the Jews. Evidence of the fact is that Jesus' verdict read INRI and it was nailed on the top of his cross by command of Pilate. Hence, it's time to stop with the false accusation that the Jews crucified Jesus.

 

[Samie]

Ben,

Isaiah the prophet recorded that somebody died for the sins of another and that goes against your false theory. You have not refuted that yet. So until you have done your assignment, please stop.