Who’s it to?

[Right Divider]

They are distinct gospels.

When Jesus returns and sits on David's throne, the people will be under the law, but it will not be bondage because they will love the law, and seek it's precepts in the very presence of the Lord.

And be filled with the Spirit to keep it.

Ezek 11:16-21 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:16) Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come. (11:17) Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. (11:18) And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. (11:19) And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: (11:20) That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. (11:21) But [as for them] whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[glorydaz]

And be filled with the Spirit to keep it.

Ah, I still have so much to learn.

 

[Derf]

And be filled with the Spirit to keep it.

I would appreciate it if you not comment on my threads unless you're willing to actually communicate with me directly. I.e., take me off you're ignore list, or move along.

 

[glorydaz]

I would appreciate it if you not comment on my threads unless you're willing to actually communicate with me directly. I.e., take me off you're ignore list, or move along.

Are you serious? RD can't respond to my posts?

Good luck making that one stick.

 

[Derf]

Are you serious? RD can't respond to my posts?

Good luck making that one stick.

Not if he's too cowardly to respond to mine.

 

[glorydaz]

Not if he's too cowardly to respond to mine.

Nice try. RD isn't cowardly, and you can't stop him from responding to my posts....even if it is in your thread.

 

[glorydaz]

In fact there isn't the slightest hint of circumcision being taught by anybody in the New Testament, with the exception of those who are characterized as troublemakers. Circumcision seems to represent the Old Testament or Old Covenant.

They didn't talk about it because they were all circumcised. All the Jews. They were all law keepers.

 

[Tambora]

We started the book of James today. The greeting you cite is fairly strong for your view. But here's a twist to consider. James says his audience are living under "the law of liberty":
James 1:25 (KJV) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
And:
James 2:12 (KJV)
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Paul spoke of such liberty:
1 Corinthians 8:9 (KJV)
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

2 Corinthians 3:17 (KJV)
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

Galatians 2:4 (KJV)
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Galatians 5:13 (KJV)
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

And Peter:
1 Peter 2:16 (KJV)
As free, and not using [your] liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

Both James and Peter were obviously making reference to the difference between the law of Moses vs this "law of liberty".

So James may be only writing to Jews, but they were definitely Jews that were exposed to Paul's teaching of grace.

Well said.
It doesn't matter which group is talked to, it's all about Christ being head.

 

[Idolater]

They didn't talk about it because they were all circumcised. All the Jews. They were all law keepers.

But if they didn't talk about it then it's an argument from silence that they taught it at all.

 

[glorydaz]

Well said.
It doesn't matter which group is talked to, it's all about Christ being head.

No wonder you're so confused.

 

[glorydaz]

But if they didn't talk about it then it's an argument from silence that they taught it at all.

No it isn't. Why do you think the Jews were telling the gentiles they had to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Acts 15:1
And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

 

[Derf]

They are distinct gospels.

When Jesus returns and sits on David's throne, the people will be under the law, but it will not be bondage because they will love the law, and seek it's precepts in the very presence of the Lord.

Psalm 119:44-46 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.

In Paul's gospel of Grace, we are freed from the law...no longer under it's bondage.

Don't we love to do what God tells us to do? Even if we fail at it? Whatever kingdom of God's that we happen to end up in, won't we thrill to do His will? "On earth as it is in heaven"?

 

[Derf]

I think you're conflating "law of liberty" with liberty

Can you explain the difference?

Because it was written years after Paul's conversion, after he had conveyed his gospel to them.

So you're saying that Paul's gospel tells the Jews they gain liberty through it, but they still have to obey every bit of the law--even the parts Paul said were not in force anymore?

All scripture is profitable. Why do you think I don't believe that?

Because every time someone uses the non-Pauline parts of the Bible for anything, you or some othe MAD person says it doesn't apply because it wasn't written to us.

 

[Hoping]

No it isn't. Why do you think the Jews were telling the gentiles they had to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Acts 15:1
And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Only a few of them were teaching that, and they were countermanded at a future council in Jerusalem. (Acts 15)

 

[glorydaz]

Don't we love to do what God tells us to do? Even if we fail at it? Whatever kingdom of God's that we happen to end up in, won't we thrill to do His will? "On earth as it is in heaven"?

There is a difference between law and grace, those who love the law will live in the Kingdom on Earth.

Psalm 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.
47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.

They are God's chosen people, and Jesus Christ will sit on the Throne of David.

There's really no point in trying to blend the two Kingdoms together.
It can't be done until God's purposes have all come to pass.

 

[glorydaz]

Only a few of them were teaching that, and they were countermanded at a future council in Jerusalem. (Acts 15)

And you think that solved the problem?
Being scolded stopped the Jews who were zealous of the law?

Think again.

 

[glorydaz]

Can you explain the difference?

So you're saying the Paul's gospel tells the Jews they gain liberty through it, but they still have to obey every bit of the law--even the parts Paul said were not in force anymore?

Because every time someone uses the non-Pauline parts of the Bible for anything, you or some othe MAD person says it doesn't apply because it wasn't written to us.

Try removing Paul's letters from the Bible and see what the plan of salvation would be.

 

[Hoping]

And you think that solved the problem?
Being scolded stopped the Jews who were zealous of the law?

Think again.

Scolded?
How about "resolved"?
It sure did solve the problem.
The Gentiles had assurance that the precepts of the Mosaic Covenant did not apply to them from after the Jerusalem council.
Minus... "But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." (Acts 15:20)
And I believe even most of those things were for the "conscience of others". (1 Cor 10:27)
And of course we know that what Jesus taught also applies to Christians, ie., love God with all your might, and love your neighbor s you love yourself.

 

[Hoping]

Try removing Paul's letters from the Bible and see what the plan of salvation would be.

That might make a good topic for a new thread.

 

[Derf]

Try removing Paul's letters from the Bible and see what the plan of salvation would be.

I like your suggestion. But I'm amazed that you think there are multiple "plans of salvation".

So here's what you would have:
The gospel includes the grace of God.
Acts 20:24 (KJV) But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

The gospel involves repentance. Acts 20:21 (KJV) Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

The church is a flock
Acts 20:28 (KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The gospel would be perverted by wolves that want to draw believers away from the truth--
Acts 20:30 (KJV) Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Gentiles would share an inheritance with the rest of the elect
Acts 20:32 (KJV) And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

In THE kingdom of God
Acts 20:25 (KJV) And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Which is what we have now. Would God only provide a single witness, when He requires at least two?