Where Is Muhammad Ali Now?

[steko]

Oh! I know what is behind your spiritual stiffness;

Spiritual stiffness!? :rotfl:

Christian preconceived notions.

My argument was from a purely logical process demonstrating that your presuppostions necessarily lead to nihilism if followed consistently to their conclusion.

Of course, if one of your persuasion would be true to his own position and follow it to its end, he would see the hopelessness of the situation and perhaps be thrilled to find that there was a perspective such as Christianity which gives answers and remedy for one's seemingly meaningless existence.

Tell me Steko, what was eternal in you or for you before you were born?

No. That which has a beginning is not eternal, in the sense of infinite.

Nothing.

Right.

Did you have any consciousness of any thing from then?

Nope.

Why now you need consciousness even of eternal life?

The fear of non-being is pretty much a universal sentiment, to my knowledge. Perhaps you aren't being honest with yourself.

Here I tell you what will be in the afterlife; as it was before you were born: absolutely the same; no difference at all.

You are certainly free to make that assertion.
However, I don't think that you have the final word on it.

Now, and still with regards to eternal life, do you know why Adam and Evil were banned from the Garden of Eden?

They sinned and died...spiritually, lost the glory in which they were formerly clothed.

To prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. (Genesis 3:22)

Correct.
However, it was to prevent them from living forever in their now fallen state. But, the Creator has provided a way to redeem the sons of Adam from that fallen state so that they may live eternally in His presence. There is to be a restoration of what was lost in Adam.
If it is true that there is a restoration and redemption, would you want it, or would you be content to remain separated from your Creator forever?

It means that eternal life belongs only to the Creator of the universe. Every one who is born must die.

Only the Creator is truly eternal/infinite being, so of course eternal life belongs only to Him. But, He may bestow and share that life with His creation.....man, on His conditions.

In Adam, all die. In Messiah all may be made alive.

Job_14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

 

[heir]

For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty, and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
(1 Corinthians 1:26-31)​

That is when "them which are called" were but "both Jews and Greeks"!

1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

It was the first sending of Paul.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

Paul had not yet been sent to all men (due time to all men 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV) including the likes of Gentiles like the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV).

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

...

Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

Acts 22:18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
...
Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

 

[heir]

Believe whatever you want. You are not God. It is not for you to judge people when they die.

God will judge you by Jesus Christ according to Paul's gospel.

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

It's due time you get saved by trusting the Lord believing it (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)!

 

[jamie]

God will judge you by Jesus Christ according to Paul's gospel.

Yes, but the question is when?

Jesus said, "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him, the word that I have spoken will judge him in the Last Day."
(John 12:47-48)

When is this Last Day?

Jesus said, "On the Last Day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, 'If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'"

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive for the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:37-39)

The Last Day Jesus referred to is Leviticus 23:39.

 

[Zeke]

I know you to be a "Cultist." Therefore, your opinion is worthless.

And the grace movement is? pretty much a fraudulent organized group of cultist on their way to flying over the religious bigotry nest.

 

[chair]

God will judge you by Jesus Christ according to Paul's gospel.

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

It's due time you get saved by trusting the Lord believing it (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)!

It seems that one of the pleasures of being a Christian is being able to point a finger at others and say: "Ha Ha! I'm gong to Heaven, and you're going to Hell! Ha Ha!"

Pathetic.

 

[steko]

It seems that one of the pleasures of being a Christian is being able to point a finger at others and say: "Ha Ha! I'm gong to Heaven, and you're going to Hell! Ha Ha!"

Pathetic.

I'm sorry that you see it that way, but I understand how you could get that impression.

I hope that I would be understood as saying, "I'm going to heaven. Come and go with me!"

 

[Poly]

God Almighty! How I also feel so sorry for you, Poly! It must be horrible indeed to be deluded and wasting your life by living an illusion. You have been so taken off by the Hellenist gospel of Paul that you prefer to reject the Word of God than to run the risk of missing your treat.

First of all, I doubt that you were actually calling out to God Almighty when you said that but rather using his name in vain.
Just giving you fair warning not to do that again.

So I'm wasting my life by running the risk of missing my treat which is...... nothing.

MMMkay... if you say so.

:dizzy: :freak: :kookoo: :nono:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It seems that one of the pleasures of being a Christian is being able to point a finger at others and say: "Ha Ha! I'm gong to Heaven, and you're going to Hell! Ha Ha!"

Pathetic.

Speaking TRUTH isn't gloating. Heir is one of the most knowledgeable "True Believers" on TOL. The Lake of Fire (Hell) is a real place, designed for those who reject God's Grace.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

And the grace movement is? pretty much a fraudulent organized group of cultist on their way to flying over the religious bigotry nest.

I don't understand what you're saying? You have your own "self-created terminology."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yes, but the question is when?

Jesus said, "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him, the word that I have spoken will judge him in the Last Day."
(John 12:47-48)

When is this Last Day?

Jesus said, "On the Last Day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, 'If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'"

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive for the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:37-39)

The Last Day Jesus referred to is Leviticus 23:39.

Christ was speaking to the Lost sheep of the House of Israel in Matthew through John and other books that were written.

 

[chair]

Speaking TRUTH isn't gloating. Heir is one of the most knowledgeable "True Believers" on TOL. The Lake of Fire (Hell) is a real place, designed for those who reject God's Grace.

Neato

 

[Caino]

-
The Greatest (a.k.a. Cassius Clay) followed a spiritual philosophy called Universal Sufism.

If the Bible has it right, then the three-time heavyweight boxing champion is now coping with something far, far worse than Parkinson's disease.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

If it were up to these hateful Christians and their concept of God, created largely in their own self image, then Ali would be in the fictitious Hell they hope he would go to. But Ali entered the sleep of death and will awake on the mansion worlds where he will have another opportunity to discover the truth of the original gospel and the true Loving God.

 

[WeberHome]

Re: Where Is Muhammad Ali Now?

-
Some may feel that hell isn't an appropriate topic at a funeral. But I think that, other than Xmas and Easter, you couldn't pick a better time to bring it up, especially since Christ said that the majority is headed in that direction. (Matt 7:13-14, Matt 22:14, Luke 13:22-24)

According to the Bible; not many great people are called. If that's true, then we have to expect that the majority of the world's best and brightest achievers-- the really big names in finance, sports, science, law, medicine, politics, technology, business, industry, religion, exploration, entertainment, and education, etc - don't, and won't, make it to safety when they pass on. (1Cor 1:26)

As I watched some of the splendor and pomp of President Gerald Ford's funeral back in January of 2007, I couldn't help but wonder if he was in a position to really appreciate it; as I suspect people in hell would certainly no longer really care anymore whether they were given an unknown pauper's disposal in a city incinerator, or reverently placed in a grand tomb in the National Cemetery with world-wide television coverage.

● Ecc 7:2 . . It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of gaiety, for death is the destiny of every man; the living should take this seriously.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

[Ben Masada]

First of all, I doubt that you were actually calling out to God Almighty when you said that but rather using his name in vain.
Just giving you fair warning not to do that again.

So I'm wasting my life by running the risk of missing my treat which is...... nothing.

MMMkay... if you say so.

The following user says, Thank you to Poly for her most beautiful atavar I have ever seen.

 

[chair]

Speaking TRUTH isn't gloating. Heir is one of the most knowledgeable "True Believers" on TOL. The Lake of Fire (Hell) is a real place, designed for those who reject God's Grace.

Convenient to have a religion that allows you to gloat when somebody dies. You can have your gloat and feel holy at the same time!

 

[Flaminggg]

ACTS 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
ACTS 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
ACTS 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all [men], shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
ACTS 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

God used two martyrs to mirror and mark the crucifixion of Jesus. These martyrs were not resurrected like Lazarus. First "Prince" was euthanized relative to 5/7/2016 at the 12210 Celestial parallel at the "Three Days" according to the Lifespan of the Antichrist. Second, Muhammad Ali was euthanized relative to 6/6/2016 at the beginning of 6/6/2016 to 6/18/2016, which is between the two lunar parallels (5/7 to 6/6 and 5/21 to 6/18). ......................... Finally the Antichrist will die marking the 150 Days of Star Wormwood, since the Antichrist is a picture of rebirth, Judas is used in the statement of Acts, as Judas was used as a picture of rebirth for the Second Resurrection. (Jesus was not given a resurrected body after the Second Resurrection, they simply seen Jesus as an Angel for a few days). Love and Blessings (I stated based on the level of force used against the Antichrist, all of Genetic Dan can be sterilized in the USA, and no further mercy will be afforded regardless of the Sacrifices of made of Genetic Dan, for this country, as a reminder for the nations seeking mercy by using lethal force against Genetic Dan, based on the level of force used against me soon, as you are not fully motivated as of yet, http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k492/psalmsamuel/stateID.jpg, I intend to make that happen soon, then I will have the full loyalty of all the nations seeking mercy as they apply to the law, at the global level, that is one viable conclusion, facing the end of live for billions of people).

 

[Ben Masada]

My argument was from a purely logical process demonstrating that your presuppostions necessarily lead to nihilism if followed consistently to their conclusion.

Oh! If something seems to you to lead one into nihilism, you'll rather, right there and then prefer the sweet realm of illusion?

Of course, if one of your persuasion would be true to his own position and follow it to its end, he would see the hopelessness of the situation and perhaps be thrilled to find that there was a perspective such as Christianity which gives answers and remedy for one's seemingly meaningless existence.

You are totally mistaken that I would go for Christianity if I was facing a hopeless situation. How about the Tanach? BTW, it is from there that I fight illusion and you take as nihilism. Jesus always referred to the Tanach as the Word of God. Was he nihilist? I don't think so.

That which has a beginning is not eternal, in the sense of infinite.

Jesus had a beginning of his life. Was he eternal? Obviously not as he died.

The fear of non-being is pretty much a universal sentiment, to my knowledge. Perhaps you aren't being honest with yourself.

Sometimes illusion seems so sweet that I wish I was not honest with myself but I can't help not to be realist.

You are certainly free to make that assertion. However, I don't think that you have the final word on it.

That's why I love the divine attribute of Freewill. We are all free to make our assertions but never so presumptive that our word is final

However, it was to prevent them from living forever in their now fallen state. But, the Creator has provided a way to redeem the sons of Adam from that fallen state so that they may live eternally in His presence. There is to be a restoration of what was lost in Adam. If it is true that there is a restoration and redemption, would you want it, or would you be content to remain separated from your Creator forever?

No one who was born or had a beginning can live forever. That's a natural law and, the Lord is not like a man to change His mind.

Only the Creator is truly eternal/infinite being, so of course eternal life belongs only to Him. But, He may bestow and share that life with His creation man, on His conditions.

Agreed! Eternal life belongs with the Creator only and He would bestow to none His attribute of eternity because "ben adam" by definition, is a mortal man.

In Adam, all die. In Messiah all may be made alive.

That's a Christian doctrine which cannot be verified; Jesus was born, died, and only by faith, he was raised from the dead. Nothing realistic.

Job_14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Based on the fact that the whole book of Job is only an allegory. Nothing in the book can be taken as real but metaphorically.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This is a reference to the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon. (Ezekiel 37:12) To sleep in the dust of the earth is to be in exile. Some to everlasting life means back to the Land of Israel. And to awake to everlasting life is to be aware that the exile is over but people prefer to remain in exile.

Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

But go on where you are till to the end of the exile. Rest for the time being and until you see yourselves back in the Land of Israel.

 

[Bright Raven]

God Almighty! How I also feel so sorry for you, Poly! It must be horrible indeed to be deluded and wasting your life by living an illusion. You have been so taken off by the Hellenist gospel of Paul that you prefer to reject the Word of God than to run the risk of missing your treat.

Galatians 1:11-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Paul Defends His Ministry
11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 3:14-15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,

 

[jamie]

Christ was speaking to the Lost sheep of the House of Israel in Matthew through John and other books that were written.

Yeah, it's too bad Paul didn't tell us the difference between true Jews and false Jews.

But you do realize don't you that Israel believers have been translated into the kingdom of his dear Son? (Colossians 1:13)