Where Does The Bible Say...? (HOF thread)
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JustAChristian
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You may think you received a manifestation of the Holy Spirit in baptism, but let me assure you that what you received has no foundation from the New Testment. If you could find one example of Holy Spirit baptism for salvation You could expand upon your premise. However, the Holy spirit does not come to save, but came to the saved (Acts 2:38). Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit to extend power to the apostles (Acts 1:8), and to the household of Cornelius to show the Jews that salvation had come to the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-48). No one is ever shown to have been baptized with the Holy Spirit for any other reason.
It is plainly pictured in Romans 6:3-5 as a cleansing process. While God has made the plan of cleansing and salvation available, man must take advantage of the plan in order to be saved. The evidence has been given that Jesus, the Son of God, is the atoning sacrifice. Lost man must believe in the deity of Jesus (Acts 8:37), repent of living a lifestyle of sin (Acts 17:30), confess faith in the deity of Jesus (Acts 8:37) and be baptized in order to contact the cleansing blood of Jesus and thus be saved (Acts 2:38).
God's truth reveals His love which motivated His amazing grace and mercy to man (Eph. 2:5,6). The truth makes known the possibility of salvation, or deliverance from the world (Gal. 1:4). The truth declares both the power and our access to the cleansing blood of God's Son, the sacrifice for our sins (Rom. 6:1-6). It is hardly paganism.
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
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Oh, but the Bible does say a lot. All that it says is "truth." (John 17:17). Man comes along and denies truth for a fable (Galatians 3:1). If man would "rightly divide" truth (2 Timothy 2:15) there would not be any denominations. Man is accountable to obey (believe) the only truth which is the word of God rightly discerned (1 Thessw. 2:13). Only an unrighteous God would couse us not to know truth and to hold us accountable for that action. This is not the God that I serve through Jesus Christ.
JustAChristian :angel:
JustAChristian-
Address Romans 10:9!
Address Romans 10:9!
Nineveh
Merely Christian
No, in fact I don't think I had a "manifestation" in the classical pagan use of the term.
Rather, no man had any say if my heart was repentant, if I accepted God, or if I was humble before God. This was between God and myself alone, as it is for everyone. No "clergy" lead me to Christ. The Law convicted me straight from the pages of Scripture.
Faith is the evidence of things unseen. Rather, I would say it's you that needs to provide an example of water changing a man's heart.
What a coincidence! It wasn't until I was humbled and repentant that the Holy Spirit baptised me!
"John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."
I further contend the Spirit was present at the first Pentecost as well.
Out of all that, you did not address what you said which is pagan. You are implying one can "contact the spiritual" through a "ritual". That most certainly is paganism.
"Man is accountable to obey (believe) the only truth which is the word of God rightly discerned (1 Thessw. 2:13). Only an unrighteous God would couse us not to know truth and to hold us accountable for that action."
First problem is that no man obeys all the truth he knows because of our sin nature.
Second, then those who misinterpret the truth are not held accountable? Including Mormons?
First problem is that no man obeys all the truth he knows because of our sin nature.
Second, then those who misinterpret the truth are not held accountable? Including Mormons?
I'm still waiting on your explanation of Romans 10:9, JAC. And what do you think Jesus meant when he said, "Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." [John 3:5]?
JustAChristian
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Commenting On Romans 10:9
Commenting On Romans 10:9
lighthouse,
I don't do much computer work on Sunday. I don't have much time because of my worship activities. I am posting my comments on Romans 10:9 for your consideration. It is in agreement with the writer that I quote in this posting.
First of all, a better understanding of verse nine is seen when one considers the entire context in which it is contained.
"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." (Romans 10:8-11 AV)
Robert Whiteside, says, “We are told that the Jews spoke of a difficult or impossible thing as a thing afar off; an easy thing, as nigh. It was of impossible, a thing afar off, to be justified by the law of Moses. To be justified by law requires perfect obedience, and no one rendered such obedience. But the Jews expected their Messiah to be here on earth in person – to remain here. This gospel system of righteousness by faith in Christ does not demand that he be brought down from heaven; nor does it, as if he were yet in the tomb, demand that he be brought up from the dead. It does not demand, nor require, his personal presence here on earth. But what does the gospel system of righteousness by faith say? “The word is night thee�; it is not a difficult matter – not a matter afar off. On the evidence given by his inspired teachers, you believe in he heart that he is the Messiah, and confess that faith with the mouth. That is the word of faith which the apostles preached, and that is the way of righteousness through Christ. To believe in Christ is to recognize him for what he is – to put our full trust in him; to confess him is to pledge our allegiance to him. A mere lip confession is worthless; we must acknowledge him by word and deed as our Lord – our Prophet, Priest, and King, as well as our Savior. This sort of confession brings us finally to eternal life, eternal salvation." Commentary On Romans, Guardian of Truth, Foundation Publications, 420 Old Morgantown Road, Bowling Green, KY 42101. ppg 217-218
Secondly, one should always remember that the letter to the Romans was written to people who had already obeyed the gospel. It is not principally addressed to those outside of Christ and should not be used to try to proved a point unto forgiveness of sins initially.
In Christ,
JustAChristian :angel:
Commenting On Romans 10:9
lighthouse,
I don't do much computer work on Sunday. I don't have much time because of my worship activities. I am posting my comments on Romans 10:9 for your consideration. It is in agreement with the writer that I quote in this posting.
First of all, a better understanding of verse nine is seen when one considers the entire context in which it is contained.
"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." (Romans 10:8-11 AV)
Robert Whiteside, says, “We are told that the Jews spoke of a difficult or impossible thing as a thing afar off; an easy thing, as nigh. It was of impossible, a thing afar off, to be justified by the law of Moses. To be justified by law requires perfect obedience, and no one rendered such obedience. But the Jews expected their Messiah to be here on earth in person – to remain here. This gospel system of righteousness by faith in Christ does not demand that he be brought down from heaven; nor does it, as if he were yet in the tomb, demand that he be brought up from the dead. It does not demand, nor require, his personal presence here on earth. But what does the gospel system of righteousness by faith say? “The word is night thee�; it is not a difficult matter – not a matter afar off. On the evidence given by his inspired teachers, you believe in he heart that he is the Messiah, and confess that faith with the mouth. That is the word of faith which the apostles preached, and that is the way of righteousness through Christ. To believe in Christ is to recognize him for what he is – to put our full trust in him; to confess him is to pledge our allegiance to him. A mere lip confession is worthless; we must acknowledge him by word and deed as our Lord – our Prophet, Priest, and King, as well as our Savior. This sort of confession brings us finally to eternal life, eternal salvation." Commentary On Romans, Guardian of Truth, Foundation Publications, 420 Old Morgantown Road, Bowling Green, KY 42101. ppg 217-218
Secondly, one should always remember that the letter to the Romans was written to people who had already obeyed the gospel. It is not principally addressed to those outside of Christ and should not be used to try to proved a point unto forgiveness of sins initially.
In Christ,
JustAChristian :angel:
JustAChristian
New member
Commenting On John 3:5
Commenting On John 3:5
lighthouse,
This is a verse that requires one to be obedient to the gospel, the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16). The fact of the new birth is stated in verse 3; here, details of it are given. There is one birth; there are two elements, “water,�and “the Spirit.� Thus, both are essential to the new birth; and the new birth is essential to entering the kingdom. What, then, is meant by being born of water and the Spirit? To enter the kingdom is to be saved (Col. 1:13,14). To be saved one must believe, repent, confess and be baptized for the remission of one's sins. Confess one’s faith in Christ and be baptized for the remission of sins. John 3:5 figuratively states what is literally affirmed in Acts 2:38. To be born “again� is simply to obey the gospel. It is not surprising that those who deny to baptism its proper place among the conditions of pardon would interpret “water� in John 3:5 to mean something other than baptism; in so doing, they are in conflict with the scholarship of the world, both ancient and modern. Henry Alford, one of the translators of the American Standard Version wrote that “all attempts to get rid� [of baptism in the passage,] “have sprung from doctrinal prejudices by which the views of expositors have been warped.� One is begotten of the Spirit by believing the Word which the Spirit gave, and born of water by coming forth from the waters of baptism. Have a great rest of the day!
JustAChristian :angel:
Commenting On John 3:5
lighthouse,
This is a verse that requires one to be obedient to the gospel, the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16). The fact of the new birth is stated in verse 3; here, details of it are given. There is one birth; there are two elements, “water,�and “the Spirit.� Thus, both are essential to the new birth; and the new birth is essential to entering the kingdom. What, then, is meant by being born of water and the Spirit? To enter the kingdom is to be saved (Col. 1:13,14). To be saved one must believe, repent, confess and be baptized for the remission of one's sins. Confess one’s faith in Christ and be baptized for the remission of sins. John 3:5 figuratively states what is literally affirmed in Acts 2:38. To be born “again� is simply to obey the gospel. It is not surprising that those who deny to baptism its proper place among the conditions of pardon would interpret “water� in John 3:5 to mean something other than baptism; in so doing, they are in conflict with the scholarship of the world, both ancient and modern. Henry Alford, one of the translators of the American Standard Version wrote that “all attempts to get rid� [of baptism in the passage,] “have sprung from doctrinal prejudices by which the views of expositors have been warped.� One is begotten of the Spirit by believing the Word which the Spirit gave, and born of water by coming forth from the waters of baptism. Have a great rest of the day!
JustAChristian :angel:
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JustAChristian
New member
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 AV)
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
New member
Originally posted by Nineveh
No, in fact I don't think I had a "manifestation" in the classical pagan use of the term.
Rather, no man had any say if my heart was repentant, if I accepted God, or if I was humble before God. This was between God and myself alone, as it is for everyone. No "clergy" lead me to Christ. The Law convicted me straight from the pages of Scripture.
Faith is the evidence of things unseen. Rather, I would say it's you that needs to provide an example of water changing a man's heart.
What a coincidence! It wasn't until I was humbled and repentant that the Holy Spirit baptised me!
"John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."
I further contend the Spirit was present at the first Pentecost as well.
Out of all that, you did not address what you said which is pagan. You are implying one can "contact the spiritual" through a "ritual". That most certainly is paganism.
The Bible tells us to "prove all things..." (1 Thess. 5:21). Again, the Bible tell us that we are to know disciples based on the fruit they produce (Matthew 7:20). I know from study what the Bible says on obeying the gospel (Romans 1:16; 2 Thess. 1:8). I know it tells me to believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah (John 8:24). I know it tells me that I must repent of my sins (Luke 13:3-5). I know it tells me that I must confess Christ before man (Matthew 10:32-33). I know it tells me that I must be baptized for the remission of sins (Mark 16:15-16; Acts 2:38). I know it tells me that I must rise from baptism to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:5). I know that it tells me that I have to endure in faith until death or until Christ returns to receive a crown of life (Rev. 2:10). With all this, I know what is expected of me in order that God will bless me with his saving grace (Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 2:11-12). My conclusion is not based on a subjective status, but a "thus saith the Lord." I can't say that I believe yours is based on a "thus saith the Lord." Would you like to prove that it is?
said earlier that if you could find one example of Holy Spirit baptism for salvation you could expand upon your premise. You failed to show one single example. Instead you challenge me to show an "example of water changing a man's heart." I can not do so because water does not change one's heart. Water is the medium that God chose to exercise His cleansing and washing away of sins by the blood of Christ (Acts 22:16), and it is the "tomb" of burial as one puts off the "old man of sin." (Romans 6:3-6). Remember, God sets the parameter for salvation and we must comply to that parameter.
You do not find any example of your conclusion. The Holy Spirit is a token of salvation not the cause of salvation. One is only saved by the grace of God through faith and is cleansed of sins by the blood of Christ. Holy Spirit baptism was never meant to be the medium of salvation.
As I showed earlier, Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit to extend power to the apostles (Acts 1:8), and to the household of Cornelius to show the Jews that salvation had come to the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-48). No one is ever shown to have been baptized with the Holy Spirit for any other reason. In fact, if you look closely at the conversions of Acts, you will not see the Holy Spirit in any case except that mentioned above (The apostles in order to be equipped with power from on high, and the Household of Cornelius ). The apostles transferred the gifts of the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands not Holy Spirit baptism. When John told the multitude that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire, he did not intend that all would be baptized for there were Scribes and Pharisees, and sinner that would never repent within in an "all inclusive" parameter. Do you believe Jesus baptized the Scribes and Pharisees that came to John's baptism? The statement is definitely a limited measure baptism (of you – second person plural) and not all inclusive.
The converts on Pentecost received the measure Holy Spirit as a gift (Romans 8:9). They were not baptized with the Holy Spirit
Then do you understand the truth revealed through the New Testament tell you to believe Jesus is the Messiah, requires you to repent of your sins, requires that you confess Jesus as the Son of God, requires you to be baptized for the remission of sins, and requires you to walk according to the precepts of the New Testament until death or Christ returns when all that are living will be changed to immortality for judgement of the "quick and the dead?"
I only showed you what the New Testament says giving scriptural references where I felt it was needed. Your conclusion is based on the measure of your heart to receive the gospel. I regret that you see the New Testament as a "ritual" . I see it as the Will of God unto salvation(Heb. 5:8-9; Eph 6:6; Heb. 10:36).
JustAChristian :angel:
Nineveh
Merely Christian
JAC,
"My conclusion is not based on a subjective status, but a "thus saith the Lord." I can't say that I believe yours is based on a "thus saith the Lord." Would you like to prove that it is? "
Faith is the evidence, is it not?
1. The Bible tells us to "prove all things..." (1 Thess. 5:21)
2. the Bible tell us that we are to know disciples based on the fruit they produce (Matthew 7:20)
3. obeying the gospel (Romans 1:16; 2 Thess. 1:8)
4. I know it tells me to believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah (John 8:24)
5. I know it tells me that I must repent of my sins (Luke 13:3-5)
6. I know it tells me that I must confess Christ before man (Matthew 10:32-33)
7. I know it tells me that I must be baptized for the remission of sins (Mark 16:15-16; Acts 2:38)
8. I know it tells me that I must rise from baptism to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:5)
9. I know that it tells me that I have to endure in faith until death or until Christ returns to receive a crown of life (Rev. 2:10)
I know what is expected of me in order that God will bless me with his saving grace "
You listed 9 things you must "do" "in order that God will...". What is the "Gospel"? Is it those 9 things that are "expected" of you, some? All? Which ones, if not "done" will cost your Salvation?
"I said earlier that if you could find one example of Holy Spirit baptism for salvation you could expand upon your premise."
I believe the Spirit is the one Baptism Paul speaks about saying, "There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism;..."
"I can not do so because water does not change one's heart."
I know. Nor can water make one repentant, nor can it make one accept Christ.
"Water is the medium that God chose to exercise His cleansing and washing away of sins by the blood of Christ (Acts 22:16),"
God doesn't need mediums. It's weird you use the term "medium" instead of "sacrament" or "symbol". I can't believe you would use that verse to support the idea God was choosing water. It's a story of events being related.
"Then do you understand the truth revealed through the New Testament tell you to believe Jesus is the Messiah, requires you to repent of your sins, requires that you confess Jesus as the Son of God, requires you to be baptized for the remission of sins, and requires you to walk according to the precepts of the New Testament until death or Christ returns when all that are living will be changed to immortality for judgement of the "quick and the dead?" "
I understand I needed to repent and accept Christ as my Savior. When I did, I was finally able to throw off the shackles of "religion". It took a while, but it's liberating to know I am not required or demanded to perform rituals for salvation, Christ is enough.
"I regret that you see the New Testament as a "ritual" . "
I regret you teach people it requires rituals to be a Christian.
"My conclusion is not based on a subjective status, but a "thus saith the Lord." I can't say that I believe yours is based on a "thus saith the Lord." Would you like to prove that it is? "
Faith is the evidence, is it not?
1. The Bible tells us to "prove all things..." (1 Thess. 5:21)
2. the Bible tell us that we are to know disciples based on the fruit they produce (Matthew 7:20)
3. obeying the gospel (Romans 1:16; 2 Thess. 1:8)
4. I know it tells me to believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah (John 8:24)
5. I know it tells me that I must repent of my sins (Luke 13:3-5)
6. I know it tells me that I must confess Christ before man (Matthew 10:32-33)
7. I know it tells me that I must be baptized for the remission of sins (Mark 16:15-16; Acts 2:38)
8. I know it tells me that I must rise from baptism to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:5)
9. I know that it tells me that I have to endure in faith until death or until Christ returns to receive a crown of life (Rev. 2:10)
I know what is expected of me in order that God will bless me with his saving grace "
You listed 9 things you must "do" "in order that God will...". What is the "Gospel"? Is it those 9 things that are "expected" of you, some? All? Which ones, if not "done" will cost your Salvation?
"I said earlier that if you could find one example of Holy Spirit baptism for salvation you could expand upon your premise."
I believe the Spirit is the one Baptism Paul speaks about saying, "There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism;..."
"I can not do so because water does not change one's heart."
I know. Nor can water make one repentant, nor can it make one accept Christ.
"Water is the medium that God chose to exercise His cleansing and washing away of sins by the blood of Christ (Acts 22:16),"
God doesn't need mediums. It's weird you use the term "medium" instead of "sacrament" or "symbol". I can't believe you would use that verse to support the idea God was choosing water. It's a story of events being related.
"Then do you understand the truth revealed through the New Testament tell you to believe Jesus is the Messiah, requires you to repent of your sins, requires that you confess Jesus as the Son of God, requires you to be baptized for the remission of sins, and requires you to walk according to the precepts of the New Testament until death or Christ returns when all that are living will be changed to immortality for judgement of the "quick and the dead?" "
I understand I needed to repent and accept Christ as my Savior. When I did, I was finally able to throw off the shackles of "religion". It took a while, but it's liberating to know I am not required or demanded to perform rituals for salvation, Christ is enough.
"I regret that you see the New Testament as a "ritual" . "
I regret you teach people it requires rituals to be a Christian.
Re: Commenting On Romans 10:9
Re: Commenting On Romans 10:9
Re: Commenting On Romans 10:9
No kidding lip service doesn't do anything. That's why ther verse also says, "believe in your heart." Faith is not belief in the head, but belief in the heart. It is trust. And it is love. And in love there is obedience, but obedience is born out of faith, whch saves us...the obedience is an afterthought. And it has no bearing on our salvation.
Re: Commenting On John 3:5
Re: Commenting On John 3:5
Now, address this:
"Indeed, under the law almost everything was purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."
-Hebrews 9:22
It is Christ's blood that is for the remission of our sins. And I have been baptized in that blood. That is the baptism that saved me.
Re: Commenting On John 3:5
I brought this up because you said that the baptism of the Spirit was not for everyone, or for all instances of salvation. I posted this to show that it is.
Now, address this:
"Indeed, under the law almost everything was purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."
-Hebrews 9:22
It is Christ's blood that is for the remission of our sins. And I have been baptized in that blood. That is the baptism that saved me.
Nineveh
Merely Christian
Acts 19:1-6
Paul in Ephesus
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
That seems an odd question to ask, unless one does receive the Spirit "when they believe".
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
Notice Paul asked what "baptism" they received since they didn't receive the Holy Spirit upon believing?
"John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
On hearing they needed to "believe in Christ", not the "water baptism of repentance", they were "baptized into the Name" aka the Body of Christ. I notice there is no mention of water here, only hearing what they needed to know.
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.
Of course one could argue Paul ran out and got his hands wet, but that wasn't the way baptism was done with water at that time.
Paul in Ephesus
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
That seems an odd question to ask, unless one does receive the Spirit "when they believe".
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
Notice Paul asked what "baptism" they received since they didn't receive the Holy Spirit upon believing?
"John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
On hearing they needed to "believe in Christ", not the "water baptism of repentance", they were "baptized into the Name" aka the Body of Christ. I notice there is no mention of water here, only hearing what they needed to know.
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.
Of course one could argue Paul ran out and got his hands wet, but that wasn't the way baptism was done with water at that time.
JustAChristian
New member
JAC - My Latest Responses Are In Bold...
Quote:
"My conclusion is not based on a subjective status, but a "thus saith the Lord." I can't say that I believe yours is based on a "thus saith the Lord." Would you like to prove that it is? "
Faith is the evidence, is it not?
Faith is not just believing but something else. Jesus said, " Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21 AV) It is evident that there will be many at the judgement that believed but did not do the will of God unto salvation. Take the warning and do God's will.
Quote:
1. The Bible tells us to "prove all things..." (1 Thess. 5:21)
2. the Bible tell us that we are to know disciples based on the fruit they produce (Matthew 7:20)
3. obeying the gospel (Romans 1:16; 2 Thess. 1:8)
4. I know it tells me to believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah (John 8:24)
5. I know it tells me that I must repent of my sins (Luke 13:3-5)
6. I know it tells me that I must confess Christ before man (Matthew 10:32-33)
7. I know it tells me that I must be baptized for the remission of sins (Mark 16:15-16; Acts 2:38)
8. I know it tells me that I must rise from baptism to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:5)
9. I know that it tells me that I have to endure in faith until death or until Christ returns to receive a crown of life (Rev. 2:10)
I know what is expected of me in order that God will bless me with his saving grace "
You listed 9 things you must "do" "in order that God will...". What is the "Gospel"? Is it those 9 things that are "expected" of you, some? All? Which ones, if not "done" will cost your Salvation?
I could have listed many more things that I must do in my spiritual life and service, but it is all inclusive as "God's Will." The gospel is God's power (right) unto salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first but also to the Gentile....(who both) shall live by faith(Romans 1:16-17). All spiritual blessing (of which salvation is included) is in Christ (Ephesians 1:3). We get into Christ when we put on Christ in baptism (Galatians 3:27), when we are buried with Christ in baptism (Romans 6:3-5), when we are "born of water and the Spirit." (John 3:3-5). There are no spiritual blessings outside of the spiritual body of Christ the church of Christ (Acts 2:47; 1 Cor. 1:30). The apostles were told to preach the Gospel (Matthew 28:18-20; 1 Cor 15:1-5), a make disciples, teaching and baptizing them as a result of the gospel being preached. Which will cause a person to be lost? When one denies any portion of the will of God that person will be eternally lost. James McGarvey, a noted 19th century preacher, commenting on Matthew 7:23...
"Through life Christ appeared to them to be accepting them and approving their lives, but he now confesses that this appearance was not real. It arose from a misconception on their part and on that of others. Many works which men judge to be religious really undermine religion. The world esteems him great whose ministry begets Pharisees, but in Christ's eyes such a one is a worker of iniquity."
Quote:
"I said earlier that if you could find one example of Holy Spirit baptism for salvation you could expand upon your premise."
I believe the Spirit is the one Baptism Paul speaks about saying, "There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism;..."
Then you are practicing two baptism today, Holy Spirit and Water Baptism. This is contrary to Ephesians 4:5. You can't have two today!
Quote:
"I can not do so because water does not change one's heart."
I know. Nor can water make one repentant, nor can it make one accept Christ.
This has never been a part of my argument.
Quote:
"Water is the medium that God chose to exercise His cleansing and washing away of sins by the blood of Christ (Acts 22:16),"
God doesn't need mediums. It's weird you use the term "medium" instead of "sacrament" or "symbol". I can't believe you would use that verse to support the idea God was choosing water. It's a story of events being related.
Call it what you may. Immersion is the point chosen by God that Christ's cleansing blood affects(Acts 22:16). Likewise, as has been said by James, Faucett and Brown in their Commentary on Ephesians 5:26: "As the bride passed through a purifying bath before marriage, so the Church (compare Rev. 21:2). He speaks of baptism according to its high ideal and design, as if the inward grace accompanied the outward rite; hence he asserts of outward baptism whatever is involved in a believing appropriation of the divine truths it symbolizes, and says that Christ, by baptism, has purified the Church."
Quote:
"Then do you understand the truth revealed through the New Testament tell you to believe Jesus is the Messiah, requires you to repent of your sins, requires that you confess Jesus as the Son of God, requires you to be baptized for the remission of sins, and requires you to walk according to the precepts of the New Testament until death or Christ returns when all that are living will be changed to immortality for judgement of the "quick and the dead?" "
I understand I needed to repent and accept Christ as my Savior. When I did, I was finally able to throw off the shackles of "religion". It took a while, but it's liberating to know I am not required or demanded to perform rituals for salvation, Christ is enough.
Where do you find the phraseology, "...I need to repent and accept Christ as my Savior?" What does all that mean? Sounds all too subjective to me. Jesus said, "...and ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32). Freedom consists in conformity to that which, in the realm of intellect, is called truth, and in the realm of morality, law. The only way in which we know truth is to obey it, and God's truth gives freedom from sin and death.
Quote:
"I regret that you see the New Testament as a "ritual" . "
I regret you teach people it requires rituals to be a Christian.
If you can show me that preaching one needs to hear the gospel, believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, repent of sin, confess Jesus as the Son of God, be immersed in water for the remission of sins and enduring in service to God through Christ is unbiblical then I will cease to preach it.
JustAChristian :angel:
JustAChristian
New member
Re: Re: Commenting On Romans 10:9
Re: Re: Commenting On Romans 10:9
Re: Re: Commenting On Romans 10:9
Then rip Hebrews 5:8-9 out of your Bible for according to your conclusion you don't need it. Go ahead, rip it out! Rip it out!!!
Nineveh
Merely Christian
JAC,
"I could have listed many more things that I must do in my spiritual life and service... "
So there is even more you must do to be saved than those 9 things? Will you remain saved if you fail to do any of those things?
Then you are practicing two baptism today, Holy Spirit and Water Baptism. This is contrary to Ephesians 4:5. You can't have two today!
No, I didn't feel compelled to jump up and get wet after I repented. So I'm only practicing and promoting one baptism. Just as I only promote one Church. I hardly know you, but I know Christ, and Christ chose Paul. For spiritual guidence, I'll choose Paul's over yours.
"Call it what you may."
I don't know anyone else that refers to baptism as a "medium", you are the first I know of.
"Immersion is the point chosen by God that Christ's cleansing blood affects(Acts 22:16). "
In Acts 22:16? Paul is speaking to a crowd and you believe this is the point God "chose" a "medium"? I am truly baffled with your use of this verse to support that view, it makes no sense.
"Where do you find the phraseology, "...I need to repent and accept Christ as my Savior?"
I find the *idea* of men needing to repent and turn to God from Genesis to Revelation. I find in the NT Jesus is the Lamb prophesied who will take away the sins of the world. I see John say, "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." Is semantics what you want to argue?
"If you can show me that preaching one needs to hear the gospel,"
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. Rom 10:17
"believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah,"
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
"repent of sin"
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus. Acts 20:21
"confess Jesus as the Son of God"
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:9
"be immersed in water for the remission of sins"
Please refer to post 56
"enduring in service to God through Christ"
Perhpas you could provide some verses that support this so I know what you mean by "endure".
"I could have listed many more things that I must do in my spiritual life and service... "
So there is even more you must do to be saved than those 9 things? Will you remain saved if you fail to do any of those things?
Then you are practicing two baptism today, Holy Spirit and Water Baptism. This is contrary to Ephesians 4:5. You can't have two today!
No, I didn't feel compelled to jump up and get wet after I repented. So I'm only practicing and promoting one baptism. Just as I only promote one Church. I hardly know you, but I know Christ, and Christ chose Paul. For spiritual guidence, I'll choose Paul's over yours.
"Call it what you may."
I don't know anyone else that refers to baptism as a "medium", you are the first I know of.
"Immersion is the point chosen by God that Christ's cleansing blood affects(Acts 22:16). "
In Acts 22:16? Paul is speaking to a crowd and you believe this is the point God "chose" a "medium"? I am truly baffled with your use of this verse to support that view, it makes no sense.
"Where do you find the phraseology, "...I need to repent and accept Christ as my Savior?"
I find the *idea* of men needing to repent and turn to God from Genesis to Revelation. I find in the NT Jesus is the Lamb prophesied who will take away the sins of the world. I see John say, "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." Is semantics what you want to argue?
"If you can show me that preaching one needs to hear the gospel,"
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. Rom 10:17
"believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah,"
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
"repent of sin"
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus. Acts 20:21
"confess Jesus as the Son of God"
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:9
"be immersed in water for the remission of sins"
Please refer to post 56
"enduring in service to God through Christ"
Perhpas you could provide some verses that support this so I know what you mean by "endure".
JAC-
Does the context of Romans 9 sya that water baptism has anything to do with salvation?
Does the context of Romans 9 sya that water baptism has anything to do with salvation?