j4jesus09
New member
LOL love it! He just goes right ahead and does things! HAve to love God! He didn't need my permission to save me. He thought of me before I knew myself. That is why I love Him. HE saved me from myself and others too!
Where does it Say that Adam Lost His Free Will in the Fall?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
LOL love it! He just goes right ahead and does things! HAve to love God! He didn't need my permission to save me. He thought of me before I knew myself. That is why I love Him. HE saved me from myself and others too!
God does NOTHING outside of his holy, just, merciful, righteous nature.
His sovereignty does not over ride his holy, just, merciful, righteous nature, but is subject to it.
M
Man.0
Guest
In response to the title of this thread, let me ask you: Where does it say that Adam had freewill in the first place?
That's the key word - chose. Choice! One has choice, but not freewill. They are not the same.
And just because one doesn't have free will doesn't mean that they are machines or puppets. Why swing from one extreme to the other, from freewill to robots? What about the middle ground of choice?
Again, choice. Jonah made the choice to disobey God. However, if you read the rest of that book one discovers that Jonah wasn't going to get away with it - it was necessary that he should go and preach to Nineveh. Although he first of all ran away, ultimately he had to do the will of GOD.
A quote of C.S. Lewis is rather apt:
'For you will certainly carry out God's purpose, however you act, but it makes a difference to you whether you serve like Judas or like John.'
Romans 9:19.
If one can resist God's will, doesn't that mean he's not omnipotent?
Think of it. The possibility of a human, limited in capabilities, who can't even resist his own death, yet can somehow resist God's will. And that's another thing, if one had free will, one could decide when, or if they die, but as it happens we must die, sooner or later. Where's the free will in death?
That's the key word - chose. Choice! One has choice, but not freewill. They are not the same.
And just because one doesn't have free will doesn't mean that they are machines or puppets. Why swing from one extreme to the other, from freewill to robots? What about the middle ground of choice?
Again, choice. Jonah made the choice to disobey God. However, if you read the rest of that book one discovers that Jonah wasn't going to get away with it - it was necessary that he should go and preach to Nineveh. Although he first of all ran away, ultimately he had to do the will of GOD.
A quote of C.S. Lewis is rather apt:
'For you will certainly carry out God's purpose, however you act, but it makes a difference to you whether you serve like Judas or like John.'
Romans 9:19.
If one can resist God's will, doesn't that mean he's not omnipotent?
Think of it. The possibility of a human, limited in capabilities, who can't even resist his own death, yet can somehow resist God's will. And that's another thing, if one had free will, one could decide when, or if they die, but as it happens we must die, sooner or later. Where's the free will in death?
j4jesus09
New member
Valid questions.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
So you think that God can violate his holy, just, merciful, righteous nature and do as he pleases?
"It is appointed unto man to die".
Some things are predetermined. But not all things.
We are free to chose a mate. We are free to chose an occupation. We are free to chose where we will live. We are even free to sin if we so desire, however, there are consequences to sin. We are totally and completely free from the laws of the land, but again there may be consequences to breaking the law. God did not create robots or puppets. We all have a free will to do most anything that we want. No, it is not given to man to fly like a bird or to live forever.
Nanja
Well-known member
Psalm 18:30
As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried:
he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.
Rom. 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make
one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
~~~~~
God has the power to make vessels of dishonor, but he does not do that. If he did that he would not be just. Man decides his own fate, not God. "Choose this day whom you will serve". Many chose to serve the devil.
You are reading the "What if scriptures" Paul was saying, What if God were to do this, or to do that? He didn't say that this is what God does.
Nanja
Well-known member
Pate
Yes He does, and already has:
Reprobates Titus 1:16 KJV
Seed of the serpent John 8:44; Mat. 23:33
Seed of the wicked Ps. 37:28 KJV; Mat. 13:38-39
Ungodly men 2 Pet. 3:7
Vessels of God's Wrath which God had prepared for destruction Rom. 9:22
Ordained by God to be condemned Jude 1:4 KJV
Those with blinded minds 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV
Those who remain spiritually Deaf John 8:43, 47
Pate
If they have it's because God has ordained them to it:
Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation,
ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will [not man's will]
in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand,
or say unto him, What doest thou?
So why do you dare to question what God does.
You're nothing but a mere inhabitant of the earth.
The teaching that man, by his own freewill, can choose his own eternal destiny is nothing but a myth!
The scriptures declare that God already saved certain ones according to His own Purpose and Grace before the world began 2 Tim.1:9.
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Invalid comments not supported by scripture!
flintstoned
New member
Of course it is "possible" to sin against God of our own free will. In fact, it is IMpossible for us NOT to sin (of our own free will). We are slaves to sin. When Adam lost his relationship with God, mankind suffered the consequences of that sin by also being spiritually separated from God due to sin. Mankind does not have the free will to understand spiritual things or to be righteous of his own will. We cannot save ourselves. We cannot "choose" God unless he has first chosen us. God is the one who gives us access to the spiritual through the Holy Spirit. We cannot accomplish this of our own will. God is the author and finisher of our faith.
The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ, Hebrews 3:15.
God has chosen all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.
We can chose. We can yeild to the Holy Spirit. On the day of Pentecost thousands of Jews heard the Gospel and became Christians, Acts 2:41.
"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17 Which is the Gospel.
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes, Romans 1:16.
Nanja
Well-known member
Yes, All the Sheep.
No, not the cursed goats Mat. 25:41.
Mat. 13:38-39
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
but the tares are the children of the wicked one; (v.39) The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
The dead can't yield, nor do anything else that pleases God Rom. 8:8.
They heard because they were made Spiritually Alive, Born of the Spirit Acts 13:48: The Hearing of Faith Gal. 3:2. The Spirit was given them to Hear God's Words.
Only the Elect will Believe the Gospel, because they were Chosen to Salvation Eph. 1:3-4:
2 Thes. 2:13-14
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because
God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit
and belief of the truth: (v.14) Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thes. 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost,
and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
The non-elect will hear the Gospel in word only: Stony heart hearers Mat. 13:20-21. But they will eventually fall away Luke 8:13.
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Invalid comments not supported by scripture!
That should not make a difference with you.