Where does it Say that Adam Lost His Free Will in the Fall?

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Adam did not lose his free will in the fall. That is another Calvinist fairy tale.

What Adam lost was his relationship with God, not his free will.

Did God cause Cain to kill Abel? Of course not. Cain killed Abel by his own free will. All through the Old Testament the prophets and the Patriarchs are making choices by their own free will, they are not puppets or robots. They think and do as they chose.

God told Jonah to go and preach the word to the people in Nineveh, Jonah, 1:1, 2. What did Jonah do? He jumped on a ship and went in the opposite direction of Nineveh. Jonah was no puppet or robot. He thought that those people in Nineveh deserved to go to hell. Jonah by his own free will disobeyed God.

Did King David committ adultery with Betsheba because it was God's will? Of course not. King David by his own free will, like Jonah, sinned against God. The fact that people are able to resist God's will should be enough proof that mans free will is alive and well.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Adam did not lose his free will in the fall. That is another Calvinist fairy tale.

What Adam lost was his relationship with God, not his free will.

Did God cause Cain to kill Abel? Of course not. Cain killed Abel by his own free will. All through the Old Testament the prophets and the Patriarchs are making choices by their own free will, they are not puppets or robots. They think and do as they chose.

God told Jonah to go and preach the word to the people in Nineveh, Jonah, 1:1, 2. What did Jonah do? He jumped on a ship and went in the opposite direction of Nineveh. Jonah was no puppet or robot. He thought that those people in Nineveh deserved to go to hell. Jonah by his own free will disobeyed God.

Did King David committ adultery with Betsheba because it was God's will? Of course not. King David by his own free will, like Jonah, sinned against God. The fact that people are able to resist God's will should be enough proof that mans free will is alive and well.
Click to expand...




What freewill?


Scripture testifies that God works all things after the counsel of His own Will Eph. 1:11, not man's will.
No man can resist God's Will Rom. 9:19!


It's a fact that God does whatever He pleases with all His Creation, whether in Heaven or on Earth:

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,
and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Who are you to say to God, What doest thou?

Why do you talk back to God Rom. 9:20 NIV?

Why have you blasphemed God by implying in so many of your posts that He is unjust?

~~~~~
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nanja said:
What freewill?


Scripture testifies that God works all things after the counsel of His own Will Eph. 1:11, not man's will.
No man can resist God's Will Rom. 9:19!


It's a fact that God does whatever He pleases with all His Creation, whether in Heaven or on Earth:

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,
and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Who are you to say to God, What doest thou?

Why do you talk back to God Rom. 9:20 NIV?

Why have you blasphemed God by implying in so many of your posts that He is unjust?

~~~~~
Click to expand...


God Sovereignty is subject to his holy, just, merciful, righteous nature. He cannot and will not violate who he is.

This is where you go wrong. You think that God is a sinner like you.

Gods ways are much higher than your ways, Isaiah 55:8, 9.

You seem to think that all of the sin that is happening on the earth is Gods will.

My advice for you is that when that Eastern sky peals back and you see Jesus coming in all of his glory, run and hide, because you are still in your sins.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
God Sovereignty is subject to his holy, just, merciful, righteous nature. He cannot and will not violate who he is.

This is where you go wrong. You think that God is a sinner like you.

Gods ways are much higher than your ways, Isaiah 55:8, 9.

You seem to think that all of the sin that is happening on the earth is Gods will.

My advice for you is that when that Eastern sky peals back and you see Jesus coming in all of his glory, run and hide, because you are still in your sins.
Click to expand...


You do not know the Sovereign, Just, God of the Bible!


My authority for all Truth is the scriptures: All of them 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 1 Cor 2:13.

But because you are carnal, void of the Spirit, so are your thoughts with regard to Spiritual things.

Consequently, you are not able to comprehend the scriptures,
and so neither do you believe them in your heart because you
still have a wicked heart Jer. 17:9; your thoughts are contrary,
in opposition, to God's Word.


Nanja
Who are you to say to God, What doest thou?

Why do you talk back to God Rom. 9:20 NIV?

Why have you blasphemed God by implying in so many of your posts that He is unjust?
Click to expand...


Why didn't you answer the questions I posed? Is it because you don't believe
that all of the bible is inspired by God, but only a very small portion of it which
you have distorted with your blinded mind 2 Cor. 4:3-4 to suit our own flesh Rom. 10:2-3 ?

2 Tim. 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (v.17)
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

~~~~~
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nanja said:
You do not know the Sovereign, Just, God of the Bible!


My authority for all Truth is the scriptures: All of them 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 1 Cor 2:13.

But because you are carnal, void of the Spirit, so are your thoughts with regard to Spiritual things.

Consequently, you are not able to comprehend the scriptures,
and so neither do you believe them in your heart because you
still have a wicked heart Jer. 17:9; your thoughts are contrary,
in opposition, to God's Word.


Nanja



Why didn't you answer the questions I posed? Is it because you don't believe
that all of the bible is inspired by God, but only a very small portion of it which
you have distorted with your blinded mind 2 Cor. 4:3-4 to suit our own flesh Rom. 10:2-3 ?

2 Tim. 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (v.17)
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

~~~~~
Click to expand...


Jesus Christ is the final authority, not the scriptures.

"The Father loves the Son and has given ALL THINGS into his hand" John 3:35.

No one will be saved that is not "In Christ". You are NOT in Christ. You are in John Calvin.

All that you can talk about is that you have been predestinated. Predestination is your Jesus. That is what you are trusting in.

God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6.

If you are going to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you. "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

John Calvin cannot save you, nor will your doctrine save you. Only Jesus Christ can save you.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Jesus Christ is the final authority, not the scriptures.

"The Father loves the Son and has given ALL THINGS into his hand" John 3:35.

No one will be saved that is not "In Christ". You are NOT in Christ. You are in John Calvin.

All that you can talk about is that you have been predestinated. Predestination is your Jesus. That is what you are trusting in.

God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6.

If you are going to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you. "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

John Calvin cannot save you, nor will your doctrine save you. Only Jesus Christ can save you.
Click to expand...



Another foolish post of yours. :plain:

You're the only one here who's obsessed with John Calvin.
:nono:


Jesus Christ is Jehovah GOD.

All the scriptures in the original languages, from Genesis to Revelation
are the Inspired Word of God 2 Tim. 3:16.

Heb. 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword,
piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow,
and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

See, that's why you deny the authority of the scriptures,
they reveal the condition of your heart/mind 2 Cor. 2:16.

Jer. 17:9-10
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

You talk back to God and blaspheme Him by implying He is unjust because
His Word testifies to the Truth that He Elected only some by His Grace Rom. 11:5
and reprobated the rest Mat. 13:38-39; Rom. 9:21-23; Jude 1:4.


Nanja
Who are you to say to God, What doest thou?

Why do you talk back to God Rom. 9:20 NIV?

Why have you blasphemed God by implying in so many of your posts that He is unjust?
Click to expand...


And now comes your admission that the written Word of God is not the final authority!

What does all of your rebellion to God and His Word prove?

1Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Also, still waiting for your reply to my original question to your erroneous thread title:

Post #4
What freewill?

Scripture testifies that God works all things after the counsel of His own Will Eph. 1:11, not man's will.
No man can resist God's Will Rom. 9:19!

It's a fact that God does whatever He pleases with all His Creation, whether in Heaven or on Earth:

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,
and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Click to expand...

~~~~~
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Robert Pate said:
Adam did not lose his free will in the fall. That is another Calvinist fairy tale.

What Adam lost was his relationship with God, not his free will.

Did God cause Cain to kill Abel? Of course not. Cain killed Abel by his own free will. All through the Old Testament the prophets and the Patriarchs are making choices by their own free will, they are not puppets or robots. They think and do as they chose.

God told Jonah to go and preach the word to the people in Nineveh, Jonah, 1:1, 2. What did Jonah do? He jumped on a ship and went in the opposite direction of Nineveh. Jonah was no puppet or robot. He thought that those people in Nineveh deserved to go to hell. Jonah by his own free will disobeyed God.

Did King David committ adultery with Betsheba because it was God's will? Of course not. King David by his own free will, like Jonah, sinned against God. The fact that people are able to resist God's will should be enough proof that mans free will is alive and well.
Click to expand...

You blame God for man's sin, for you say God gave man freewill to commit sin.

Show where God said to Adam "behold I give unto you freewill"
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Totton Linnet said:
You blame God for man's sin, for you say God gave man freewill to commit sin.

Show where God said to Adam "behold I give unto you freewill"
Click to expand...

The Garden of Eden was Adams Domain.

God even brought the animals to Adam to see what he would name them.

Adam had a free will. Proof that Adam had a free will is that it was always possible for him to sin against God.

To NOT be able to sin against God means that you are a robot or a puppet. You do not have a free will. It means that you have been programed to obey.

God did not create robots or puppets.
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Robert Pate said:
The Garden of Eden was Adams Domain.

God even brought the animals to Adam to see what he would name them.

Adam had a free will. Proof that Adam had a free will is that it was always possible for him to sin against God.

To NOT be able to sin against God means that you are a robot or a puppet. You do not have a free will. It means that you have been programed to obey.

God did not create robots or puppets.
Click to expand...

That Adam was able to rebel against God I do not dispute, but the consequences are so severe that they cancel out any thought of freewill...."ye shall die" dead people do not have freewill.

What Adam [and we in Adam] had was a choice, choice is not freewill.

For example Adam could not rebel against God and not die, not be thrust out of the garden....if he had freewill that would surely have been his choice.

Satan's grand deception was just this that Adam COULD rebel and not die.....Freewill doctrine is that same lie.
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
....whereas he had been gloriously free to be everything God had created him to be...he was now reduced to slavery.

What part of slavery spells freewill. Paul's doctrine is that man is in bondage.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Totton Linnet said:
That Adam was able to rebel against God I do not dispute, but the consequences are so severe that they cancel out any thought of freewill...."ye shall die" dead people do not have freewill.

What Adam [and we in Adam] had was a choice, choice is not freewill.

For example Adam could not rebel against God and not die, not be thrust out of the garden....if he had freewill that would surely have been his choice.

Satan's grand deception was just this that Adam COULD rebel and not die.....Freewill doctrine is that same lie.
Click to expand...

How was Adams ability to rebel against God cancel out his free will?

Adam died spiritually, not physically, he lived to be 930 years old.

Choice is free will. CHOICE: The act of choosing; selection.

Adam by his own free will chose to sin against God in spite of all of the consequences.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Totton Linnet said:
....whereas he had been gloriously free to be everything God had created him to be...he was now reduced to slavery.

What part of slavery spells freewill. Paul's doctrine is that man is in bondage.
Click to expand...

Even though he had lost his freedom in the garden, he did not lose his free will. There is no scripture that says he did. What he lost was his relationship with God.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Even though he had lost his freedom in the garden, he did not lose his free will. There is no scripture that says he did. What he lost was his relationship with God.
Click to expand...

I am still looking to see the scripture that states Adam had a freewill at all ?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nanja said:
Me too! (Post #8)

~~~~~
Click to expand...


"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof and did eat and gave also to her husband with her; and he did eat" Genesis 3:6.

They both partook of the fruit by there own free wills.

The devil didn't make them do it. God didn't make them do it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top