When does the biblical day begin?

[jamie]

Because they are following the law written in their hearts and minds...as His people

Doing His way...

For worship and fellowship and even reading about how the early assemblies assembled on Shavuot

To talk about the harvest the receiving of the Law and the Spirit of Yah...you know, fellowship

Yes, but then there is this: "And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.'"

Jesus did not observe Shavout, he was dead on the 16th of Nisan.

 

[clefty]

Able-bodied males were required by law to observe Passover each year in Jerusalem.

Are you claiming that is still valid or is the Mosaic Passover obsolete and replaced by a NT Passover, which hardly anyone mentions.

Instead people argue about when Passover was eaten millennia ago.

If you were planning to go to Jerusalem to sacrifice a lamb you might want to reschedule.

Why all that?

Passover was celebrated long before the temple between the temples and after the temple...

Sometimes twice a year if missed or miscalculated...because the temple was not reachable or in this case destroyed...

Why shed blood when His is enough?

It's like having a loved ones birthday on April 10...we bake a cake and light the candles for them to blow out when they are alive but once dead what is the point of lighting candles when they can't blow them out?

Remembering the date can be done...even baking a cake in their honor...but that loved one will not be there to eat it much less blow the candles out...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The 14th is Passover when the Passover Lamb is killed but the Passover Lamb is not eaten till the 15th. Now does it make sense?'

Again, the passover was already over by the time the 15th arrived (Num.33:3). In the following verse we can see that it is the passover meal that is referred to as the "passover":

"And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover" (Ex.12:11).​

The LORD's passover happened on the 14th, and not the 15th as you imagine:

"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD" (Num.28:16).​

Until you cease from trying to force the passover unto the 15th day you will never get this right.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

But no amount of finagling can produce three nights as per his prediction at Matt 12:40.

"So shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:40).​

"Some people find here a clear proof that Scripture has erred ; others that the Lord was crucified on the Thursday. But in this both critics and "reconcilers " merely display their ignorance. "Three days and three nights" was a familiar idiomatic phrase to cover a period that included any part of three days. We need not go outside Scripture to exemplify this. The Egyptian mentioned in 1 Samuel xxx, 11 - 13 had had neither food nor drink for "three days and three nights," and yet it was only three days since he had fallen sick. So, again, in 2 Chronicles x. 5, 12, we read that Rehoboam said to the Israelites, "Come again unto me after three days . . . so they came to him on the third day." And in Esther iv. 16 and v. 1, we aee told that the queen ordered a fast for three days, and yet she held a banquet on the third day.

But Matthew xxvii. 63. 64 would settle the question. even if it stood alone. Four-and-twenty hours after the Lord’s burial, the Jews came to Pilate and said, "We remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command, therefore, that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day." And if that Sunday had passed, leaving the seal upon the tomb unbroken, the guard would have been withdrawn, and the Pharisees would have proclaimed their triumph. In nine passages do the Gospels record His words that He would rise "on the third day"; and in 1 Corinthians xv. 4 the Apostle Paul proclaimed the fact as an integral part of the gospel.

Though this may puzzle a theological college, no prison chaplain would need to explain it to his congregation. For our law reckons time on this same system. Though our legal day is a day and a night - twenty-four hours beginning at midnight - any part of a day counts as a day. Therefore, under a sentence of three days’ imprisonment a prisoner is usually discharged on the morning of the third day, no matter how late on the first day he reaches the prison. Under such a sentence a prisoner is seldom more than forty hours in gaol, and I have had official cognizance of cases where the detention was, in fact, only for thirty-three hours.

And this mode of reckoning and of speaking was as familiar to the Jews as it is to our prison officials and the habitués of our criminal courts. In his Horce Hebraicce, Dr. John Lightfoot quotes time Jewish saying, "A day and a night make one Onah, and a part of an Onah is as the whole." And he adds, "Therefore, Cimrist may truly be said to have been in the grave three Onoth." To object that as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, the Lord must have been in the grave for that full period is a transparent blunder; for, of course, the period intended in the Jonah narrative must be computed in accordance with "the dialect of the nation" (Lightfoot)" (Sir Robert Anderson, Misunderstood Texts of the New Testament [Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1991], 37-38).​

 

[jamie]

And this mode of reckoning and of speaking was as familiar to the Jews as it is to our prison officials and the habitués of our criminal courts. In his Horce Hebraicce, Dr. John Lightfoot quotes time Jewish saying, "A day and a night make one Onah, and a part of an Onah is as the whole." And he adds, "Therefore, Cimrist may truly be said to have been in the grave three Onoth." To object that as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, the Lord must have been in the grave for that full period is a transparent blunder; for, of course, the period intended in the Jonah narrative must be computed in accordance with "the dialect of the nation" (Lightfoot)"[/I] (Sir Robert Anderson, Misunderstood Texts of the New Testament [Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1991], 37-38).[/INDENT]

According to the law on certain occasions part of a day is counted as a day.

In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day.

Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time.

The day is reckoned from evening to evening—i.e., night and day—except in reference to sacrifices, where daytime and the night following constitute one day (Lev. vii. 15; see Calendar).

http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5007-day​

The three circumstances where part of a day is counted as a day.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The three circumstances where part of a day is counted as a day.

The Egyptian mentioned in 1 Samuel xxx, 11 - 13 had had neither food nor drink for "three days and three nights," and yet it was only three days since he had fallen sick. So, again, in 2 Chronicles x. 5, 12, we read that Rehoboam said to the Israelites, "Come again unto me after three days . . . so they came to him on the third day." And in Esther iv. 16 and v. 1, we aee told that the queen ordered a fast for three days, and yet she held a banquet on the third day.​

You would rather use any authority but the Bible. Over and over you reject what is said at Numbers 28:16 and 33:3 and now you want to cite an outside source to try to prove that what is said in the Bible on this subject is in error!

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

On the 14th day light portion lambs are killed all afternoon between evenings...lamb eaten evening/night THAT SAME DAY of 14th...midnight Wrath passes over...leftover meat is burnt before morning...the 15th the day begins

As for what Jews say, or what their traditions are, I was clearly told they who call themselves Jews but are not...are snakes liars they are sons of their father a liar...synagogue of Satan...

Remember the ancient conspiracy was found in Judah...

I agree that the lambs were killed between the evening as Exodus 12, Leviticus 23 and Numbers 9 all say this in the Interlinear Bible: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/exo12.pdf Even though Deuteronomy says at sunset, because there were so many lambs to sacrifice at the tent of meeting or the temple, it would have taken several hours to kill them all, skin them and have them put into the ovens before the sun set. However, day begins at sun set so they ate them on the 15th:

Exodus 12
6Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.

The lamb is killed at twilight (as the sun goes down on the 14th).
It takes a good hour to cook a Lamb.
That same night they are to eat the meat (The 15th).

I'm sure we have discussed when the day begins?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Again, the passover was already over by the time the 15th arrived (Num.33:3). In the following verse we can see that it is the passover meal that is referred to as the "passover":

"And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover" (Ex.12:11).​

The LORD's passover happened on the 14th, and not the 15th as you imagine:

"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD" (Num.28:16).​

Until you cease from trying to force the passover unto the 15th day you will never get this right.

Jerry this is getting silly. In post #188, I said:

'The Lamb they are eating is what is being referred to as the Passover, it is the Passover Lamb! It does not mean that the 15th is also the Passover.

The 14th is Passover when the Passover Lamb is killed but the Passover Lamb is not eaten till the 15th. Now does it make sense?'

And 100 post later in post #288 I REPEATED:

We are going round in circles. I explained this in post #188, this is what I said:

'The Lamb they are eating is what is being referred to as the Passover, it is the Passover Lamb! It does not mean that the 15th is also the Passover.

The 14th is Passover when the Passover Lamb is killed but the Passover Lamb is not eaten till the 15th. Now does it make sense?'

JERRY I AM IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU.

THE 15TH IS NOT PASSOVER

NOW DO YOU SEE THAT WE AGREE??

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Oh my...the histrionics and name calling is understandable...typical even


Things falling apart on ya eh? Lol

Read carefully and you dont find what you wish it to say...

It is nowhere written "darkness then daylight on the first day"

Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.

New Living Translation
God called the light "day" and the darkness "night." And evening passed and morning came, marking the first day.

English Standard Version
God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

New American Standard Bible
God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

King James Bible
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
God called the light "day," and He called the darkness "night." Evening came and then morning: the first day.

International Standard Version
calling the light "day," and the darkness "night." The twilight and the dawn were day one.

NET Bible
God called the light "day" and the darkness "night." There was evening, and there was morning, marking the first day.

New Heart English Bible
God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. There was evening and there was morning, one day.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God named the light [day], and the darkness he named [night]. There was evening, then morning-the first day.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

New American Standard 1977
And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And God called the light Day and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

King James 2000 Bible
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

American King James Version
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

American Standard Version
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.

Darby Bible Translation
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening, and there was morning -- the first day.

English Revised Version
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Webster's Bible Translation
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night: and the evening and the morning were the first day.

World English Bible
God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." There was evening and there was morning, one day.

Young's Literal Translation
and God calleth to the light 'Day,' and to the darkness He hath called 'Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day one.


But rather it came to be evening...it came to be morning...the first day completed


Its takes some getting used to...you know some unlearning of man's traditions...




Thought this of interest too...

https://youtu.be/9rTnZRD-J6Y

I watch the video and 4 hours is more than enough time for Joseph of Arimathea to go to Pilate, ask for the body, hear the centurion confirm Jesus had died, buy the linen (while Nicodemus bought the spices), go to the cross, take Jesus down, wash His Body, put the spices on, wrap Him in the shroud and lay Him in the tomb. The distance from Herods Palace to the Garden Tomb is less than 800 meters in a straight line but even doubling this would only take about 20 minutes to walk, at about 3 mph.

So 4 hours is more than enough time to do all of this before sunset.

 

[jamie]

You would rather use any authority but the Bible. Over and over you reject what is said at Numbers 28:16 and 33:3 and now you want to cite an outside source to try to prove that what is said in the Bible on this subject is in error!

I've not said differently.

I've even explained the morning after the Passover the night before.

 

[Crucible]

A day, according the Bible, it twelve hours- a a day will begin under the sun and end under the moon; and vice versa, the next day.

There were practical reasons fort this. You have to remember that you are looking at a history without the platitudes and redundancies of today's world- they worked sweat and brow for their survival.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Darkness came first and then the light, thus representing night followed by day.

Evening
noun
1.the period of time at the end of the day, usually from about 6 p.m. to bedtime.

Morning
noun
1.the period of time between midnight and noon, especially from sunrise to noon.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The 14th is Passover when the Passover Lamb is killed but the Passover Lamb is not eaten till the 15th. Now does it make sense?'

No, it does not make sense. The passover was eaten with unleavened bread (Ex.12:80. so if you are right then the first meal with unleavened bread was on the 15th. And if you are right ten unleavened bread was eaten the next six days (Lev.23:6).

If you are right then that would mean that unleavened bread was eaten for seven days. However, the Scriptures reveal that it was eaten for eight days:

"In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even" (Ex.12:18).​

 

[clefty]

I agree that the lambs were killed between the evening as Exodus 12, Leviticus 23 and Numbers 9 all say this in the Interlinear Bible: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/exo12.pdf Even though Deuteronomy says at sunset, because there were so many lambs to sacrifice at the tent of meeting or the temple, it would have taken several hours to kill them all, skin them and have them put into the ovens before the sun set. However, day begins at sun set so they ate them on the 15th:

Exodus 12
6Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.

The lamb is killed at twilight (as the sun goes down on the 14th).
It takes a good hour to cook a Lamb.
That same night they are to eat the meat (The 15th).

I'm sure we have discussed when the day begins?

Lambs killed between the evenings...eaten the SAME DAY...the wrath passes over at midnight the SAME DAY 14th...15th begins in the morning...

Have we discussed that it is impossible to separate the darkness that was upon the face of the waters from the first Night of that first day when Light was created?

Ya need light to separate darkness from night...that light was called day...not evening...there is light in evening...

 

[clefty]

I watch the video and 4 hours is more than enough time for Joseph of Arimathea to go to Pilate, ask for the body, hear the centurion confirm Jesus had died, buy the linen (while Nicodemus bought the spices), go to the cross, take Jesus down, wash His Body, put the spices on, wrap Him in the shroud and lay Him in the tomb. The distance from Herods Palace to the Garden Tomb is less than 800 meters in a straight line but even doubling this would only take about 20 minutes to walk, at about 3 mph.

So 4 hours is more than enough time to do all of this before sunset.

4 hours is much too generous...Joseph came to ask permission of Pilate when it was already evening...and it still had to be verified...

Try walking 3 mph during rush hour on a annual high holiday...much less get an appointment with the courts late on TGIF...lol

Besides that is your issue only if it must be done by sundown when the new day begins...

Seeing as a meal had to be prepared and eaten in their homes that evening...who would be left to take down dead bodies to prevent them hanging overnight? That was forbidden...

 

[clefty]

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

yup He sure did...and that Day turned into evening...which turned into darkness but now called NIGHT because it then came to be morning--the first day completed.

And after the act of creating Light was done, every act of creation was done during the daylight portion of the day and then it came to be evening and then morning--the Xth day the act was done...then night came then the the morning and finally the day is complete and numbered

Darkness came first and then the light, thus representing night followed by day.

nope. Darkness was not called night...darkness was called night only after light...

Evening
noun
1.the period of time at the end of the day, usually from about 6 p.m. to bedtime.

daylight...the end of the day light...evening needs light...diminishing light...how did the first day ever have an evening to begin it?

Morning
noun
1.the period of time between midnight and noon, especially from sunrise to noon.

Especially sunrise which divides the time period from midnight to noon into two days...

The act of creation done during the daylight portion...it came to be evening...into night...it came to be morning...the day now completed it is numbered...

Maybe we should move to other texts in the Bible? Just sayin'...

 

[clefty]

No, it does not make sense. The passover was eaten with unleavened bread (Ex.12:80.

is why the last supper which was eaten with leavened bread is NO WAY a Passover meal

so if you are right then the first meal with unleavened bread was on the 15th. And if you are right ten unleavened bread was eaten the next six days (Lev.23:6).

If you are right then that would mean that unleavened bread was eaten for seven days. However, the Scriptures reveal that it was eaten for eight days:

"In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even" (Ex.12:18).​

Yup...the Passover meal WAS STILL ON THE 14th as the sunset did NOT flip the desk calendars to the next day...just as the Wrath passed over at midnight STILL ON THE 14th...that same night...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

...that morning next day was preparation day the 14th was when the lambs were killed

Yes, and that means that these events happened on the 14th, and not the 13th as you claim:

"Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer" (Lk.22:7-15).​

 

[S-word]

I agree that the lambs were killed between the evening as Exodus 12, Leviticus 23 and Numbers 9 all say this in the Interlinear Bible: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/exo12.pdf Even though Deuteronomy says at sunset, because there were so many lambs to sacrifice at the tent of meeting or the temple, it would have taken several hours to kill them all, skin them and have them put into the ovens before the sun set. However, day begins at sun set so they ate them on the 15th:

Exodus 12
6Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.

The lamb is killed at twilight (as the sun goes down on the 14th).
It takes a good hour to cook a Lamb.
That same night they are to eat the meat (The 15th).

I'm sure we have discussed when the day begins?

Numbers 28: 16; On the fifteenth day a religious festival begins which lasts seven days, during which, only unleavened bread is to be eaten. On the first day of the seven day festival of unleavened bread, (The 15th day of Abib) you are to gather for worship and no work is to be done………………. On the last day (The 21st of Abib) you must meet for worship and do no work.

.Numbers 28: 16; The Passover Festival in honour of the Lord, is to be held on the 14 th day of the first month.

Concerning the day of Passover, the Lord says in Exodus 12: 14; “You must celebrate ‘THIS DAY’ as a religious festival to remind you of what I, the Lord have done, Celebrate it (One day) for all time to come.

Good News Bible, Catholic Study Edition; Numbers 28: 16-17; "The Passover Festival in honour of the Lord is to be held on the 14th day of the first month. On the 15th day a religious festival 'BEGINS' which lasts seven days, during which, only bread prepared without yeast is to be eaten.

Numbers 33: 3; the people of Israel left Egypt on the 15th day of the first month of the year, THE DAY AFTER the first Passover.

Deuteronomy 16: 6; You must only sacrifice the Passover animal at the place where Yahweh your God chooses to have his name dwell. Do it in the evening as the sun sets. At the time of the day you departed Egypt.

At what time of the day did the Israelites leave Egypt? As the sun set on the 14th day of Abib.

Numbers 33: 3; the people of Israel left Egypt (At Sunset) at the BEGINNING of the 15th day of the first month of the year, ‘THE DAY AFTER’ the first Passover. Under the Lord’s protection they left the city of Rameses in full view of the Egyptians, who were burying the first born sons that the Lord had killed. (At Mid night on the 14th day of Abib.)

Jerry Shugart wrote......The lamb is killed at twilight (as the sun goes down on the 14th).

S-word......The Lamb is killed at the going down of the sun, between the two evenings (Hebrew bible) on the 13th. to butcher the amount of Lambs needed, saving all the blood in vessels, skin theanimals, which means the skin on the heads and hoofs that had to be eaten, to was all the intestines, which also had to be eaten, then to roast those lambs, would have taken many, many hours.

The Lambs were eaten in the night of the 14th, at midnight on the 14th the angel of death passes over the land of Egypt, and killed all the first born males that were not protected by the blood of the Lamb, after being ordered by the King, in the darkness sometime well after midnight, to leave his country, then organising all the Israelites and breaking into the Tomb of Joseph in the valley of Kings in order to take his bone into the promised land as promised, and after asking for, and receiving gifts of Gold, silver and clothes, from the Egyptians who now showed respect for the Israelites, they left Egypt as the sun set on the 14th day, which was the beginning of the 15th day of Abib, in full view of the Egyptians who were burying their first born sons, whom the Lord had killed at midnight on the previous night of the 14th day of the first month..

 

[Jerry Shugart]

...they left Egypt as the sun set on the 14th day, which was the beginning of the 15th day of Abib, in full view of the Egyptians who were burying their first born sons, whom the Lord had killed at midnight on the previous night of the 14th day of the first month..

No, the Israelites remained in their dwellings until the morning after the midnight when the first born throughout Egypt were killed:

"And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning" (Ex.12:22).​