ECT What's MAD?

[ARMcCarley]

Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God.

 

[meshak]

You don't understand the Gospel. Jesus gave it to Paul by revelation so what Paul says, Jesus said.

You don't understand Jesus' word, and don't have respect for His word.

 

[Doom]

MADS people claim the same. Why do you have problem with them?

It seems you don't honor Jesus' teachings much, MADS are the same.

You are a pest. I'm considering getting everyone on TOL one of these for Christmas...

meshak remover

 

[meshak]

Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;

So it is not faith alone is it?

 

[Bright Raven]

You don't understand Jesus' word, and don't have respect for His word.

You are unteachable and do not care to learn. All you do is spread your heresy on this site.

Good day!

 

[Doom]

Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God.

Paul says something completely different.


"What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt."

According to Paul Abraham was NOT justified by works, but by faith alone.

 

[meshak]

You are unteachable and do not care to learn. All you do is spread your heresy on this site.

Good day!

YOu don't listen to Jesus whom you give lip service.

 

[Bright Raven]

YOu don't listen to Jesus whom you give lip service.

Dare say, I know and honor the Master more than you will or ever could comprehend.

 

[meshak]

Dare say, I know and honor the Master more than you will or ever could comprehend.

Who is your Master?

I cannot tell by your comments.

 

[Bright Raven]

Who is your Master?

:ha: You don't even know who the Master is.

 

[Doom]

Who is your Master?

She's baiting you

 

[Bright Raven]

She's baiting you

No problem. Been here before.

 

[vfirestormv]

Paul says something completely different.


"What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt."

According to Paul Abraham was NOT justified by works, but by faith alone.

So either one of them are lying or they are both really saying the same thing. I choose to believe the latter. The Bible is not corrupt.

 

[Delmar]

So either one of them are lying or they are both really saying the same thing. I choose to believe the latter. The Bible is not corrupt.

There is a third option that you are missing. They are both speaking the truth, each to a different audience.

 

[vfirestormv]

Faith without works is dead... show me your faith without your works and ill show you my faith by my works.

I don't believe vfirestormv believes in salvation by works based on what he has shared, but I will let him speek for himself.

You are correct, there is nothing I could do within myself to gain or keep salvation. But because of salvation I am a workmanship of Christ created unto good works. I still sin but I do not practice sin and I have an advocate with the Father when I do sin even Christ Jesus.

how many despensations are there? 30... 40...43..? there is only one Gospel, Jesus Christ(either looking forward to him or back to him).

Now I don't know that you would call me a dispensationalist, if so I would be a normative dispensationalist. I believe we are graffed in to
believing Israel as stated in Romans. But I also don't think God is done with National Israel. They were booted out of Israel in 135AD and have remained a people. They did not become a nation again and giving back part of the land until 1948. That is over 1,800 years without a homeland that they remained a people, although many nations have tried to stamp them out of existence. There has never been a nation to even remain a people for more than a few generations without a homeland. So I believe Israel for one is proof positive that they are a choosen people and for two that God as said in His word would not forsake Israel because of His names sake.

 

[vfirestormv]

There is a third option that you are missing. They are both speaking the truth, each to a different audience.

Again I ask then some what should be simple questions:
Why were these books written so late in the first century some even after 70AD if that different gospel that the apostles supposedly taught would end with the death of the apostles?
Unless of course there are still two gospels today...
Why would they(the apostles) still be teaching it even after Paul was shown the mystery of the new gospel?
How were the apostles saved?
How were those under the Law saved?
How were those before the law saved?
How were Gentiles before the law saved?
What was the point in the animal sacrifices? Please be as descriptive as possible.
Did those animal sacrifices bring about forgiveness? If not full forgiveness, what did they point to?
Do you believe anyone was ever saved by obeying the law? And you can't say Christ here, He was the only perfect one that fulfilled the law.

 

[musterion]

There is a third option that you are missing. They are both speaking the truth, each to a different audience.

That option was explained to him a few weeks ago but he refused to even consider the possibility, yet he keeps recycling the same questions as if we didn't try to answer them. He's a Baptist exactly like I used to be: his faith is in Christ and his own water baptism. We're a threat to the latter, so his mind is closed.

 

[vfirestormv]

That option was explained to him a few weeks ago but he refused to even consider the possibility. He's a Baptist exactly like I used to be. His mind is closed.

Not closed mind. I even considered the doctrine so I went to study it further from links you guys posted. Too many things can not be answered by this doctrine and too many things showing that there was another way of salvation in the past, which dishonors Christ.

Again, answer the questions I posted above. Make me see your truth in clarity.

 

[csuguy]

The gentiles were grafted onto Israel, thereby becoming partakers in the blessings and promises given to Israel. Whatever teachings, requirements, etc. that were given to Israel in the NT under Christ are also applicable to the gentiles - for there is no jew nor gentile, male nor female, free nor slave in Christ. All are one in the same.

 

[musterion]

Not closed mind. I even considered the doctrine so I went to study it further from links you guys posted. Too many things can not be answered by this doctrine and too many things showing that there was another way of salvation in the past, which dishonors Christ.

Again, answer the questions I posted above. Make me see your truth in clarity.

We tried. Heir was very patient with you - she's probably the most patient MAD on this board - but you threw it all back in her face so she gave up.

I will say this...one of the final big hangups I had about MAD was with dating the NT epistles. I bought into the tradition that the circumcision epistles and Revelation were written late. I remember asking Ivan Burgener about Peter's letters 10 years ago at a BBF conference. The answer to my objection was that the opinions - and that's exactly what they come down to - on dates are not set in stone. I now believe, based on the content of the letters, that the circumcision epistles were written relatively early. That has them fit much more sensibly in the overall scheme of the N.T.

But I know you'll reject that possibility. So did I, once upon a time.