What would make you Catholic?

[glassjester]

I don't view 'where' you attend as important as Who you and I belong to. I am also more interested in what you are doing with Jesus Christ our Lord, God, and Savior, more than I am about what is happening with your Priest. To me, those issues overshadow your need for your magistrate.

All opinion, no?

This may seem elementary, but what's your evidence or basis for believing in sola scriptura?

Having go-betweens between you and Christ is a Catholic concern. It is almost like asking me, as an adult, to come under your parental authority.

Yes. Is that bad? John 14:18

Also - not my authority, but the teaching authority granted by Christ to His Church.

 

[HisServant]

What a shame. But off-topic. You only say this because you do not believe the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded.

So I ask... what evidence would convince you that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ?

Ones behavior is more important that historical evidence....so you are asking an impossible question. The RCC is not Jesus church.... never has been and never will be.

Basically, the evidence you are asking of me would require rewriting histiry.

Jesus started an ekklesia... not a church... so your question is also pointless.

 

[HisServant]

Wow. I'm sure your pathetically arrogant and laughably ignorant judgment of Almighty God must be so very intimidating to Him. Let's all join hands and pray for the Lord, that He'll somehow be able to recover from HS's pathetic little "god-like" rebuke! lain:

Since your god is not Jesus' father and is purely a Roman Catholic invention.... I have ZERO to worry about.

 

[Lon]

All opinion, no?

Really? Who is Christ's being more important than what church you happen to attend? Interesting :think:

This may seem elementary, but what's your evidence or basis for believing in sola scriptura?

Being more educated and better educated than my counterparts, knowing my bible and how to interpret it, having the guidance of the Holy Spirit, agreement with my pastor, friends, etc.

Yes. Is that bad? John 14:18

Where did you get that verse and are you sure your church supports you using it for this particular reason? If so, or even not, it is incorrect and thus illustrates my above but not your point.

Also - not my authority, but the teaching authority granted by Christ to His Church.

In a nutshell, no difference, it is your assumed authority and theirs. It is basically just trading up your errors. Who says? Me. Who gave me authority? Christ. Where?
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Among other scriptures. Reading it is important to understand it alone is authoritative, internally given as true.

What of differences and disagreements? What of them. We are to be Bereans and seek truth out. That is WHY the Bereans were noble.

 

[glassjester]

Really? Who is Christ's being more important than what church you happen to attend? Interesting :think:

I didn't disagree with those particular opinions; I simply pointed out that you were stating opinions. Let's keep to facts.

Being more educated and better educated than my counterparts, knowing my bible and how to interpret it, having the guidance of the Holy Spirit, agreement with my pastor, friends, etc.

This is evidence of sola scriptura?

Where did you get that verse and are you sure your church supports you using it for this particular reason?

You said before that asking you to assent to the authority of the Catholic Church is like asking you to be as a child, obedient to the authority of his parents.

The NT has lots of language that promotes the very relationship that you seem averse to. Christ's promise to not leave us "as orphans" recalls this metaphor, His followers being as children.

 

[glassjester]

Among other scriptures. Reading it is important to understand it alone is authoritative, internally given as true.

Where's it say that?

 

[Lon]

I didn't disagree with those particular opinions; I simply pointed out that you were stating opinions. Let's keep to facts.

It was/is an odd thing. Is Who you belong to more important than where you attend? You may see connection such that one influences the other, but I don't think this is opinion. It is indeed more important that you know the Savior than attend any particular place, especially when the RC recognizes that there are those outside the RC walls that are Christian and those inside who aren't. They wouldn't, themselves, have said such unless their was a hierarchy of importance.

This is evidence of sola scriptura?

I gave that with scripture in the next line. You also asked for the 'basis' that I believe it.

You said before that asking you to ascent to the authority of the Catholic Church is like asking you to be as a child, obedient to the authority of his parents.

The NT has lots of language that promotes the very relationship that you seem averse to. Christ's promise to not leave us "as orphans" recalls this metaphor, His followers being as children.

That "He" wouldn't leave us as orphans. He didn't. That particular doesn't mean priest. Such is a derivative, an assumption. The reason Catholics have to rely on tradition, in conjunction or more important than scripture, is because of these. It is also another reason I hold to sola Scriptura.

 

[glassjester]

That "He" wouldn't leave us as orphans. He didn't. That particular doesn't mean priest.

But we are children in that analogy.

 

[Lon]

But we are children in that analogy.

I'm not meaning to belabor the point. The chapter is talking about the Holy Spirit:
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
John 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
John 14:18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

 

[everready]

The Holy Office

The Holy Office

Why did they reopen the office of the Inquisition, or has it actually ever closed, i know its been renamed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith


everready

 

[Lon]

Where's it say that?

Where?
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Among other scriptures. Reading it is important to understand it alone is authoritative, internally given as true.
We are to be Bereans and seek truth out.

"Perfectly" and"thoroughly" Pay attention to God. You can do a search on scriptures that speak of themselves as authoritative, or better yet read the Bible often and the chapters and verses will come readily to mind.

 

[SabathMoon]

All opinion, no?

This may seem elementary, but what's your evidence or basis for believing in sola scriptura?

Because everything important and every tradition was written by the Israelites. There is nothing to add.

Also - not my authority, but the teaching authority granted by Christ to His Church.

And what do you teach that others don't? Commandments and commandments including the decalog? Protestantism caused the rise of Western Civilization. The Catholic Church merely continues the Dark Ages. I look to Latin America, Central America and Mexico as proof.

 

[Brother Vinny]

"Perfectly" and"thoroughly" Pay attention to God. You can do a search on scriptures that speak of themselves as authoritative, or better yet read the Bible often and the chapters and verses will come readily to mind.

To be fair, the passage says the scriptures are profitable to the perfection of the man of God and his thorough equipping. I am personally frustrated that Paul didn't say "solely sufficient" anywhere.

 

[Cruciform]

Nor that some of your own members are saved, therefore are not 'real' members of Christ's Church.

The fact is that we have no idea whatsoever who will be saved and who won't. In any case, they are formal members of Christ's one historic Church.

Incorrect. It is your man-made platitude that probably makes you feel good about yourself or designed to get a rise out of another.

Post your proof.

You don't have permission to figure this kind of stuff out, nor authority, so we are arguing one from dictation, and the other from what he has come to understand using logic that God gives...

Of course, Catholics use the logic given by God every bit as much as does any Protestant (including you). Catholics interpret the Bible "for themselves" every bit as much as you do, as well. In the future, you may want to try and avoid the sort of glaring Straw Man Fallacies that you've engaged in here.

Because they aren't brain-washed.

Neither are Catholics----at least no more than you are.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cruciform]

Since your god is not Jesus' father and is purely a Roman Catholic invention...

Just another Straw Man Fallacy for HS. Pathetic.

 

[Lon]

The fact is that we have no idea whatsoever who will be saved and who won't. In any case, they are formal members of Christ's one historic Church.

:up: Being on the same page is great!

Post your proof.

Well, if I have misunderstood you, you certainly have here. This is about where I got my idea. Proof isn't really something one looks for when asking how another came about an idea. I can assert I read scripture.

Of course, Catholics use the logic given by God every bit as much as does any Protestant (including you). Catholics interpret the Bible "for themselves" every bit as much as you do, as well. In the future, you may want to try and avoid the sort of glaring Straw Man Fallacies that you've engaged in here.

Excellent! So I don't need authorization, and neither did Luther! :up:

Neither are Catholics----at least no more than you are.

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

That too is great news. You chose your preference (man-made since you are a man) and I made mine. What did we base it off of? As you rightly say, our logic, rather than droning it with my "recently established, man-made sect." Most of this is all I was trying to get you to acquiesce in thread, well that and make sure I was understanding your uses of those terms. Thanks. -Lon

 

[Lon]

To be fair, the passage says the scriptures are profitable to the perfection of the man of God and his thorough equipping. I am personally frustrated that Paul didn't say "solely sufficient" anywhere.

"Sufficient" does mean "solely" doesn't it? If the Scriptures weren't solely sufficient, they couldn't be sufficient, could they? The Holy Spirit ensures we get their meaning and message, but I believe Paul is writing that 'sufficient' means the end of the matter, when he goes on to say exactly what they are sufficient for: doctrine, correction, instruction, that the man of God may be complete, lacking nothing. That's why 2 Timothy 4:2 says "Preach the Word!" In Him -Lon

 

[Brother Vinny]

"Sufficient" does mean "solely" doesn't it? If the Scriptures weren't solely sufficient, they couldn't be sufficient, could they? The Holy Spirit ensures we get their meaning and message, but I believe Paul is writing that 'sufficient' means the end of the matter, when he goes on to say exactly what they are sufficient for: doctrine, correction, instruction, that the man of God may be complete, lacking nothing.

Well, it says "profitable". Water is profitable for growing a plant. No one says water by itself is sufficient.

 

[Cruciform]

Excellent! So I don't need authorization, and neither did Luther! :up:

How in the world did you arrive at those gigantic, glaring Non Sequiturs?

You chose your preference (man-made since you are a man)...

• My choice was man-made. What I chose is not.
• Similarly (but with a vital difference): Your choice was man-made. And so is what you chose.

Are you able to grasp this yet? :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cedarbay]

How in the world did you arrive at those gigantic, glaring Non Sequiturs?

• My choice was man-made. What I chose is not.
• Similarly (but with a vital difference): Your choice was man-made. And so is what you chose.

Are you able to grasp this yet? :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Similar tactics of most apologists'/evangelists' of the RCC.