What was the appearance of the three [LORD,lords] who visited Abraham.

[oatmeal]

I asked you:

You: <NO ANSWER>

You not answering that question is you saying you don't know that God can see Himself, and that, just the same, you don’t know that He cannot. And thus, by your not ruling out the affirmative, you show that you are willing to call God "invisible" even if He can see Himself. Which is an admission by you that someone or something can be simultaneously invisible and seen.


Which scripture? Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth."

Who am I to know if God can see himself? Does spirit have eyes, literal eyes? I believe what God's word teaches, not what it does not teach. God is spirit. Should I believe what you think? or what God says? I do not know if God can see himself because Scripture does not say one way or another, as far as I know. Why should I try to tell God what truth is? Evidently, you think men can say what truth is but God cannot.

Are you really that arrogant? I seem you would have willfully and gladly eaten the fruit like Adam did in the Garden.

Now, since God is spirit and all knowing, He would be fully aware of himself in every situation.

 

[oatmeal]

If you think God can't see Himself, then, do you imagine He couldn't see anything until He created the heaven and the earth?

Where does God state one way or another that God can or cannot see himself

The issue is also another verse, another truth to consider.

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

No man has seen God at any time. That verse does not say that God cannot see himself or anything else that he wants to see

Invisible to who?

Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Hebrews 11:27
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

God is telling who, that He is invisible? Does he need to teach himself, or is he teaching humans?

 

[7djengo7]

Who am I to know if God can see himself?

Where does God state one way or another that God can or cannot see himself

Here you are admitting you do not know that God cannot see Himself. By which you admit that, when you call God "invisible", you do not mean by it that He cannot, at least, be seen by Himself.

Yet, when you wrote this:

Hebrews 11:27 does not say He literally saw the invisible God for seeing something or someone who is invisible would mean that the invisible would no longer be invisible.

you used the word "invisible" in such manner as to say that for God to see Himself would be for God to "no longer be invisible".

If God is/can be seen by Himself, then He is/can be seen. And, if God is/can be seen, then God is visible. Wouldn't you agree?

Are you of a mind to think that, because God, in His Word, uses the word "invisible" to describe Himself, then the word "visible" should not be used to describe Him?

 

[7djengo7]

Should I believe what you think?

Yes! Absolutely! Of course! What a stupid question!

And, while you're at it,

 

[7djengo7]

Should I believe what you think?

I should add that, in a sense, I suppose I'm with you in that I'm not certain whether or not the Father sees/can see Himself. I can't say I think He can/does see Himself; yet also, I can't say I think He cannot/does not see Himself. (Although, to me, it seems maybe a bit more approaching wrongness to think He can't see Himself.) But, the point I've tried to make is that to say you don't know that He cannot see Himself, while also maintaining that (as the Bible says) He is invisible, is to admit openness to an idea of some sort of compatibility between His being invisible and His being seen (if, in fact, he can/does see Himself).

 

[Nick M]

I began to consider what was most important is that God gave his presence A NAME

Watching Ray Comfort videos has made me decide to think more on the specific command to not say his name in vain, and what it meas to do it. It means to do it without a good reason. He isn't your next door neighbor, he is the creator of the universe and we owe him divine respect in all ways.

 

[oatmeal]

Here you are admitting you do not know that God cannot see Himself. By which you admit that, when you call God "invisible", you do not mean by it that He cannot, at least, be seen by Himself.

Yet, when you wrote this:

you used the word "invisible" in such manner as to say that for God to see Himself would be for God to "no longer be invisible".

If God is/can be seen by Himself, then He is/can be seen. And, if God is/can be seen, then God is visible. Wouldn't you agree?

Are you of a mind to think that, because God, in His Word, uses the word "invisible" to describe Himself, then the word "visible" should not be used to describe Him?

I am not admitting anything except that God's word, as far as I know, does not speak on this subject. Therefore, I do not know. Likewise, why would I guess? Why would I or anyone else who respects God's word as God's, not men's, word, want to impose their clueless will upon God?

Why wouldn't God be allowed to be an exception? God is God, men are men. Are you willing to downgrade God down to the level of sinful men?

God is always the exception when it comes to the foibles of men.

James 1:

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Can God be tempted? No, people may attempt to tempt God, but God is not flawed, He is never weak that He would succumb to any temptaton in any form.

Since God is spirit. John 4:24 and we are not. Certainly, we cannot experience or know what God knows except for what He reveals about himself.

Show me a scripture that answers your question. To claim that God is not self aware is foolish.

 

[oatmeal]

Here you are admitting you do not know that God cannot see Himself. By which you admit that, when you call God "invisible", you do not mean by it that He cannot, at least, be seen by Himself.

Yet, when you wrote this:

you used the word "invisible" in such manner as to say that for God to see Himself would be for God to "no longer be invisible".

If God is/can be seen by Himself, then He is/can be seen. And, if God is/can be seen, then God is visible. Wouldn't you agree?

Are you of a mind to think that, because God, in His Word, uses the word "invisible" to describe Himself, then the word "visible" should not be used to describe Him?

When you show me a scripture that explicitly states anything on that subject, I will believe what God's word says on the subject

However, we do know that God is all knowing. To be all knowing, God would also be all knowing all things concerning himself. That would indicate that God is self aware in everything about himself.

I do not find that to be a difficult concept.

God is spirit, not flesh, God does not need eyes to see, unlike humans. Thus what is invisible to men's fleshly eyes are not a limitation to God

 

[7djengo7]

I am not admitting anything except that God's word, as far as I know, does not speak on this subject. Therefore, I do not know.

It doesn't make any difference if you sit there saying "I am not admitting" that you do not know that God cannot see Himself. You are, indeed, admitting that you do not know that God cannot see Himself:

Who am I to know if God can see himself?

That's you admitting both

1. that you don't know that God can see Himself, and
2. that you don't know that God cannot see Himself.

 

[7djengo7]

When you show me a scripture that explicitly states anything on that subject, I will believe what God's word says on the subject

Hebrews 11:27 does not say He literally saw the invisible God for

Show us a scripture that explicitly states that (as you assert) Hebrews 11:27 does not say He literally saw the invisible God.

seeing something or someone who is invisible would mean that the invisible would no longer be invisible.

Show us a scripture that explicitly states that (as you assert) seeing something or someone who is invisible would mean that the invisible would no longer be invisible.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Bump for @oatmeal:

So list them.

Scripture says God is the invisible God.

Col 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1Ti 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Heb 11:27
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Hebrews 11:27 does not say He literally saw the invisible God for seeing something or someone who is invisible would mean that the invisible would no longer be invisible. It was as if he saw the invisible God. We do that every time we read scripture that describes an attribute of God.

Sure:

ChatGPT - Verses of Seeing God

Shared via ChatGPT

chatgpt.com

Oh, and that list doesn't even include all the times people saw Jesus (because Jesus is God in the flesh).



The Bible often speaks in generalities, more often, I'd argue, than it does in absolutes.

For example, Psalms, Proverbs, and much of the Prophets are poetry and figures of speech, rather than woodenly literal statements.

I noticed that you haven't responded to what I said, Oatsy...

Is something preventing you from doing so?

 

[Right Divider]

oatmeal .... not just for breakfast anymore

 

[Bladerunner]

Opps. I forgot to cover verse 8. This verse is the one telling what the chard people of Sodom looked like after The LORD God brought judgement.

Lamentations 4:8 [My ideas inside [ ...]:
8 Their visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known [identifiable] in the streets: Their skin cleaveth to their [chard] bones; it [their flesh] is withered, it [their black chard flesh] is become like a [burnt] stick.

On the other hand the visage of the three sinless Nazarites who visited Abraham and brought judgement to Sodom were white, with a ruddy look about them having blue eyes.

i. Most all commentators agree that Nazirites is not a reference to those who took the vow of a Nazirite according to Numbers 6:1-21, and instead refers to leaders or notable people.

ii. “Persons that were nobly and ingenuously bred; the word Nezer signifying a crown, or ensign of honour, 2 Samuel 1:10 2 Kings 11:12. The name Nazirite was given to persons splendid for their breeding and education, or honour and dignity; it is given to Joseph, Genesis 49:26, we translate it separate from his brethren, Deuteronomy 33:16; so Nahum 3:17. Her Nazarites in this place signifieth her separated ones, who either in respect of birth, education, estate, places of magistracy, or the like, were distinguished from the rest of the people.” (Poole)

 

[oatmeal]

Show us a scripture that explicitly states that (as you assert) Hebrews 11:27 does not say He literally saw the invisible God.

Show us a scripture that explicitly states that (as you assert) seeing something or someone who is invisible would mean that the invisible would no longer be invisible.

I am waiting

 

[oatmeal]

Bump for @oatmeal:

Jesus is not God in the flesh. Jesus is the word in the flesh.

Big difference.

Word is the Greek word, logos, which means message.

Even as scripture is the message in written form, Jesus is the message in the flesh.

Please keep that straight

 

[7djengo7]

I am waiting

For what? A punctuation mark?

Jesus is not God in the flesh.

If Jesus is not God in the flesh, then who is? To whom are you referring by your phrase, "God in the flesh"? Whom are you saying Jesus is not?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Jesus is not God in the flesh. Jesus is the word in the flesh.

Big difference.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

God is the logos. Jesus is the logos. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Word is the Greek word, logos, which means message.

No.

Logos means "logic" or "reason."

"Word" is a mistranslation.

Even as scripture is the message in written form, Jesus is the message in the flesh.

Please keep that straight

When you can't even respond directly to something you yourself asked for, and then assert that which is false, expecting your opponent to just believe it because you said it, that makes you a fool.

 

[Insight me]

I have been reading carefully through the three pages and I would like to mention something if you would be interested.

please notice exactly what 1Pe 1:10 - 12 is saying

:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of The ANOINTING / CHRIST which was IN them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of the anointing / Christ, and the glory that should follow.

:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Spirit Holy sent down from heaven.......................

this is explaining that the prophets did not receive the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ - Jesus Christ the son of God was never revealed to them

➣- ➣ revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us

- - - -
they ministered the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Spirit Holy sent down from heaven

as we se again ……………..➣

Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that the Anointing should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Christ - the Anointing

but we see in the scriptures that Christ / The Anointing was IN these Old Testament prophets as they suffered as prophets who were filled with Christ in them- the spirit of God anointing them

and ..... their very suffering that they endured for the sake of the Anointing / Christ in them signified and declared and testified the future suffering of Christ / The Anointing - the Son Of God - to come in the future.

this was not revealed to them as knowledge and understanding they understood - this was kept secret, hidden from them, unknown,. meaning = they are a testimony that the Anointing / Christ was in them - but they did not testify of the Son Of God, whom was born in the last days " Jesus The Anointing but testified of the Spirit of the Eternal anointing them / Christ, the eternal word.

he did not yet exist in human flesh and was not yet born as a Son whom the Spirit of God in him is the one eternal God manifested as the Christ / Anointing.

; ⌱ LOGOS .. God made flesh

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

the word of God is the application / anointing of the Spirit Holy

Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, ………...by the word of God,

2Pe 3:5 by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called " The word of God " ; ⌱ LOGOS


the word is what the spirit of the father always commands and sends - as application , christ - anointing and as a manifestation of him visibly working and appearing and also sent to earth as the Anointing / Christ - the word. ; ⌱ LOGOS


God was in the Anointing son of God reconciling the world unto himself - the Spirit of God committed himself to become manifested as the very spirit of the man Yahashua and this Spirit of God suffered and offered himself in Yahashua - through the eternal spirit.

Act 20: :28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

 

[Insight me]

the scriptures mention the three visitors as "" Three Men "" who came to visit Abraham, they sat down and ate food with him also.

One of the men is called was called " The Lord " while the other two men continue to be called as "" Two Men ""

i believe that the other two men were angels and one of the Men was God himself manifested in the flesh but not manifested as the Son of God, as the Son had not yet been born.

this occurred in Genesis chapter 12

just hours later we see the other two men who are called as " Angels ":

Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

perhaps I am mistaken, if anyone would like to discuss, i would be happy to

 

[Clete]

I have been reading carefully through the three pages and I would like to mention something if you would be interested.

please notice exactly what 1Pe 1:10 - 12 is saying

:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of The ANOINTING / CHRIST which was IN them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of the anointing / Christ, and the glory that should follow.

:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Spirit Holy sent down from heaven.......................

this is explaining that the prophets did not receive the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ - Jesus Christ the son of God was never revealed to them

➣- ➣ revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us

- - - -
they ministered the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Spirit Holy sent down from heaven

as we se again ……………..➣

Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that the Anointing should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Christ - the Anointing

but we see in the scriptures that Christ / The Anointing was IN these Old Testament prophets as they suffered as prophets who were filled with Christ in them- the spirit of God anointing them

and ..... their very suffering that they endured for the sake of the Anointing / Christ in them signified and declared and testified the future suffering of Christ / The Anointing - the Son Of God - to come in the future.

this was not revealed to them as knowledge and understanding they understood - this was kept secret, hidden from them, unknown,. meaning = they are a testimony that the Anointing / Christ was in them - but they did not testify of the Son Of God, whom was born in the last days " Jesus The Anointing but testified of the Spirit of the Eternal anointing them / Christ, the eternal word.

he did not yet exist in human flesh and was not yet born as a Son whom the Spirit of God in him is the one eternal God manifested as the Christ / Anointing.

; ⌱ LOGOS .. God made flesh

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

the word of God is the application / anointing of the Spirit Holy

Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, ………...by the word of God,

2Pe 3:5 by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called " The word of God " ; ⌱ LOGOS


the word is what the spirit of the father always commands and sends - as application , christ - anointing and as a manifestation of him visibly working and appearing and also sent to earth as the Anointing / Christ - the word. ; ⌱ LOGOS


God was in the Anointing son of God reconciling the world unto himself - the Spirit of God committed himself to become manifested as the very spirit of the man Yahashua and this Spirit of God suffered and offered himself in Yahashua - through the eternal spirit.

Act 20: :28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

This was rather difficult to follow but it seems to me to be Modalism. Sounds sort of like something you'd hear from Oneness Pentecostalism (i.e. anti-Trinitarian).

However, as I said, I had a hard time following it. Did I misunderstand it?