What is the Gospel?

[daqq]

Thanks. Very interesting - you have a point.

Is it possible that Paul considered that which was passed round through word of mouth (for that is how such stories were initially 'recorded' in those times) were considered scriptures? It would be odd, though, for him to use that word if this were so.

Is Paul alluding to the fact that Jesus spoke of Himself rising in three days?

John 2:19-22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

The difference between "Scripture(s)", "scripture(s)", "Writing(s), and "writing(s)", (when the context is not clear), is nothing more than opinion when it comes to the Greek text(s) because it is all the same word in its various forms in the N/T, (G1124 γραφη - "graphe"). The context will normally inform the reader what is meant, and especially when a passage of scripture is quoted, such as in Matthew 21:42, where the Master says, "Did you never read in the scriptures", (εν ταις γραφαις), and then quotes the passage from Psalm 118:22-23. However this is not always the case, and it is upon the reader-interpreter to decide what the text is speaking about in such situations: and that is precisely what happens in 1Cor 15:4, he or she who reads must decide whether Paul means "scriptures" or "writings", (possibly meaning one or more Gospel accounts, "histories"). Moreover the Torah has a special classification which Stephen calls "λογια ζωντα", (Acts 7:38), which is to say, "Living Words", "Living Sayings", "Living Oracles", "Living Logia", (ultimately from Logos). Paul employs the same terminology as well as Peter and the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, (Rom 3:1-2, Heb 5:12, 1Pet 4:11). The overall point being that Paul does not necessarily have to be speaking about something prophesied in the Tanach-O/T in the statement of 1Cor 15:4, no, but that is just the majority opinion among scholarship which is reflected in most translations of the passage into English.

 

[Danoh]

Thanks. Very interesting - you have a point.

Is it possible that Paul considered that which was passed round through word of mouth (for that is how such stories were initially 'recorded' in those times) were considered scriptures? It would be odd, though, for him to use that word if this were so.

Is Paul alluding to the fact that Jesus spoke of Himself rising in three days?

John 2:19-22
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

Yep - that would be one more of the various witnesses also - that one, an aspect within "the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" He had often spoken of in parables, figures, types, shadows, and other times, literally.

So tell me, what exactly did you mean in the OP that you are a non-believer?

You never really went into what you'd actually been referring to exactly.

Were you posting as an actual non-believer yourself, or as a role-play, as when one poses a thing from another's perspective and then asks how might others answer said role person's question.

For, for someone who asserts being a non-believer, you appear not only more than merely familiar with the Scripture, but crystal clear on some things (though obviously not on others, which is the case with most every student of the Scripture, if not with all of them).

Thanks, and Romans 5:6-8 towards you.

 

[meshak]

Yes, but to the righteous part (Abraham's bosom).

Where did you get the idea "righteous hell"?

reference?

 

[Danoh]

The difference between "Scripture(s)", "scripture(s)", "Writing(s), and "writing(s)", (when the context is not clear), is nothing more than opinion when it comes to the Greek text(s) because it is all the same word in its various forms in the N/T, (G1124 γραφη - "graphe"). The context will normally inform the reader what is meant, and especially when a passage of scripture is quoted, such as in Matthew 21:42, where the Master says, "Did you never read in the scriptures", (εν ταις γραφαις), and then quotes the passage from Psalm 118:22-23. However this is not always the case, and it is upon the reader-interpreter to decide what the text is speaking about in such situations: and that is precisely what happens in 1Cor 15:4, he or she who reads must decide whether Paul means "scriptures" or "writings", (possibly meaning one or more Gospel accounts, "histories"). Moreover the Torah has a special classification which Stephen calls "λογια ζωντα", (Acts 7:38), which is to say, "Living Words", "Living Sayings", "Living Oracles", "Living Logia", (ultimately from Logos). Paul employs the same terminology as well as Peter and the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, (Rom 3:1-2, Heb 5:12, 1Pet 4:11). The overall point being that Paul does not necessarily have to be speaking about something prophesied in the Tanach-O/T in the statement of 1Cor 15:4, no, but that is just the majority opinion among scholarship which is reflected in most translations of the passage into English.

Not that I agree with your conclusion in this case, but your premise - about that two worf diffetence "Scriptures" and "writings" IS itself evident in the difference between those two word uses in 2 Timothy 3:15 and 16.

At the same time, just as the Lord had appeared to, Paul there ALSO asserts that both words carry the same weight and authority.

Rom. 5:6-8 towards ya.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Where did you get the idea "righteous hell"?

reference?

'It is not just me they are calling hypocrite. The call all their opponents hypocrites if they don't agree with them.

Your reading skill seems selective.'

Perhaps if you widened your reading material you would know about this. It's in the Bible as well.

 

[meshak]

'It is not just me they are calling hypocrite. The call all their opponents hypocrites if they don't agree with them.

Your reading skill seems selective.'

Perhaps if you widened your reading material you would know about this. It's in the Bible as well.

Then enlighten me. I am willing.

BTW, I focus on what Jesus says. To be like Jesus, we don't need to read other sources or so much knowledge like you do.

I just want to know if it harmonize with Jesus' word.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Then enlighten me. I am willing.

BTW, I focus on what Jesus says. To be like Jesus, we don't need to read other sources or so much knowledge like you do.

I just want to know if it harmonize with Jesus' word.

I suggest it's you who has selective reading skills:

I said; "Perhaps if you widened your reading material you would know about this. IT'S IN THE BIBLE AS WELL."

You said; "BTW, I focus on what Jesus says. To be like Jesus, we don't need to read other sources or so much knowledge like you do. I just want to know if it harmonize with Jesus' word."

 

[meshak]

I suggest it's you who has selective reading skills:

I said; "Perhaps if you widened your reading material you would know about this. IT'S IN THE BIBLE AS WELL."

You said; "BTW, I focus on what Jesus says. To be like Jesus, we don't need to read other sources or so much knowledge like you do. I just want to know if it harmonize with Jesus' word."

I asked you a question sincerely. And you refuse to answer me?

Your comment to me was so partial. My points were spot on.

You could not refute anything I said.

I know very well about Jesus' teaching. I don't pay much attention to OT. Some of it useful to emphasize Jesus' word and many are not.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I asked you a question sincerely. And you refuse to answer me?

Your comment to me was so partial. My points were spot on.

You could not refute anything I said.

I know very well about Jesus' teaching. I don't pay much attention to OT. Some of it useful to emphasize Jesus' word and many are not.

You assume too much; It was Jesus who gave the teaching that I refer to.

 

[meshak]

You assume too much; It was Jesus who gave the teaching that I refer to.

Ok, if Jesus mentioned "righteous hell", I will apologize.

I am very sure he did not.

 

[meshak]

BTW, what the heck is righteous hell?

It is not biblical word.

 

[Danoh]

No, it isn't.

I know Judas was without hope of salvation. I know that because Jesus said so, Himself. He said Judas did not believe. He said he was the son of perdition, and a devil. Scripture said satan entered into Judas. That is not limited atonement, it's merely believing what is written in Scripture. Duh.

You're that stupid that you keep playing this game? Seriously? If you're doing it to please the evil one, then you're a worse fool than I thought. And, demanding I answer, like I'm your lap dog, will only get you smacked down.

Not believing in Christ is something all humans do is it not? Since you affirm 'anyone can believe', what is your point?

...and you continue with the ad hominems....

:chuckle:

But seriously, you might consider just simply putting her on ignore for a time.

For there is no win for both sides with her kind.

I put her on ignore for a time here and there all the time.

Only find it had been in vain when I return to respond to her.

I find her exactly where I last left her - in her exact same old duplicity and fool projection of her duplicity as coming not from her but from whomever she happens to be spitting on.

Just yesterday she tried to pull her exact lap dog expectation nonsense from me that she is now accusing you of expecting from her.

When I chose not to play lap dog to her nonsense, out poured the other side of her crystal clear obvious self-deluded duplicity

The women is obviously living in her own, long since deeply entrenched self-righteous hypocrisy.

Several of her pals are just like that also.

To their shame, one would think that is a trait of MADs, in general.

It might be best if you simply decide to view such through the lens of Romans 5:6-8, and perhaps ignore such for a time.

For as the Apostle they claim to follow had noted, and Ep found out the hard way, where dancing with such a bit too long is concerned...

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Yep, I think I'll set the thermostate to a high Romans 5:6-8 once more, where perceiving such is concerned, at the same time that I set off on my boat to those ever equally perfectly warm shores of a Club MAD vacation - of ignoring her fool kind for a time once more :thumb:

2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Ok, if Jesus mentioned "righteous hell", I will apologize.

I am very sure he did not.

You need to improve you quoting skills, I said 'the righteous PART of Hell', not 'righteous hell'.

 

[Clete]

Just to be clear Clete, do you affirm that Jesus died for all persons without exception - for those whom you describe as 'wretched, wicked, evil and disgusting'?

I understand the reservation about actually preaching the Gospel to those who are hostile.

Yes, absolutely. God did not have a specific list of people in mind that he was dying for. His death is sufficient to pay for the sin of every human being that has, does or will ever exist - many times over. His shed blood is of infinite, inexhaustible value. This is because it wasn't a mere man who died but the Alpha and Omega, the eternal God the Son, the Creator of all things.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”​

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[daqq]

Something I've been meaning to say to you for some time now, daqq.

Despite our different understandings, I have always enjoyed the stimulating challenge of your views and questions: and there is also ever a sincerity about them; as if you not only actually thirst for a true or right understanding, but as if you do not post merely to get a negative rise out of someone out of some sort of an unresolved animosity towards them.

Unlike some of your own on that other sub-forum within that other forum we first met on, you were like the way you are on here now, back then too.

Man o man were some of them rabidly insistent - do you still "dance" with them? :chuckle:

Anyway, though at times I might go a time not going back and forth with you on one thing or another, please know it is always like greeting a genuine, old friend whenever I do return to address one or another of your posts.

I'm grateful to have known you.

Thanks Danoh, deeply appreciated, and I know that you too are very sincere because your love for the Word shows in your posting. As for that "other place" they slew me and cast me forth out of their camp a few times, so although I do drop by there occasionally it is very seldom.

To your question/assertion, then...

There is this assertion here; right?

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

But there is also this one...

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Obviously, He went over that with them via the Scripture.

Question is, where is this "buried...and rose again the third day" in the OT?

Though I hold that Paul means by is an application DISTINCTLY UNIQUE to that Mystery UNIQUE to his ministry ALONE, at the same time, part of where ISRAEL's Prophesied hope as to that is concerned, in the OT, is asserted in the following...

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Another part of it is asserted in the following, which is from the OT, also...

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

And so on...

In short, it is found in a collection of various passages that together paint the intended image of it, and that, THIS SIDE of the Cross.

For, prior to the Cross, it had formed a part of "the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 13:11) that He had often made reference to in various parables, in types, and figures, and even literally, but that had nevertheless been made prior to the Cross.

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 18:34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

There was that, PRIOR to the Cross, but also this, AFTER the Cross..

Luke 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 24:5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 24:6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, 24:7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. 24:8 And they remembered his words, 24:9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

Likewise had been the case with the Prophets themselves...

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Right there you have it also, and also the teaching of His Prophesied return one day - which is another issue in connection with God's plan and purpose for a redeemed Israel unto His planned service election for them one day over this Earth, in that day of their adoption (Bar Mitzvah) at last, that does not right off appear to depict Two separate Advents in the OT, though there all along those Two separate Advents of His turn out to have been written of, all along.

Rom. 5:6-8 towards you.

Yeah, I am not saying I disagree with any of those things or your propositions concerning those things, for I know that Messiah is absolutely foretold in the Torah, Prophets, and Writings, even from Genesis 1:1, (all things were created In Reshiyth, In Arche). However, it is my opinion, from how I have been brought to understand the writings, that Paul is not speaking of those things in 1Cor 15:4. We know from Acts 16:4 that he was circulating the declarations from Acts 15, the Letter from the council, to all the congregations where he went: it is therefore very possible that he may also have been circulating one of more of the Gospel accounts at the same time, that is, "that which I also received", (1Cor 15:3, Gal 1:18, Rev 1:1, Gal 1:12 KJV).

Here is yet another quandary-dilemma which this would resolve, (and for me it does).

Galatians 3:1 T/R
1 ω ανοητοι γαλαται τις υμας εβασκανε τη αληθεια μη πειθεσθαι οις κατ οφθαλμους ιησους χριστος προεγραφη εν υμιν εσταυρωμενος;

Galatians 3:1 W/H
1 ω ανοητοι γαλαται τις υμας εβασκανεν οις κατ οφθαλμους ιησους χριστος προεγραφη εσταυρωμενος

You know what προεγραφη means, right?
I will offer my reading of the shorter version:

"O foolish Galatians, before whose eyes Messiah Yeshua was previously-already-written to have been crucified, who has beguiled you?"

 

[Clete]

#2897

If Jesus did not shed His blood for Judas Iscariot and all those considered not His sheep, then one wonders how believing in Jesus is going to avail them.

She is saying the same thing I am, Sonnet.

At the end, there will be a set of people who had faith and believed and there will a set that did not. The reason God was willing to die was so that those who had faith could be saved. He didn't do it for the those who would hate Him. If He had had reason to believe that no one was going to have faith He wouldn't have done it at all. He'd have just wiped out the whole mess and went on with His life. But He could see that there was and would be a remnant and so chose to die in order to save those who would believe. The point is that He doesn't have a list of special people that He chose to die for and the rest are without hope. He paid a price sufficient for the whole race of mankind and offers forgiveness to all who would put their faith in Him. He only applies the blood to believers because its the believers that God died for in the first place. If someone is not currently in that group, he is invited and free to join it at any time prior to his physical death.

That makes sense, right?

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[meshak]

You need to improve you quoting skills, I said 'the righteous PART of Hell', not 'righteous hell'.

here is the whole post of yours:



Quote Originally Posted by Sonnet View Post

Thanks.

You think Moses and David etc went to hell?
Yes, but to the righteous part (Abraham's bosom).






The thread has crystallized into an argument about whether Paul would have told unbelievers, 'Christ died for our sins.' I believe Paul preached that.

take a look at your reply to sonnet I bolded.

He asked about hell and you replied "yes, but righteous part."

My question was spot on. You don't seem to read well.

Many of Jesus' word are not literal. When you die first time, you are just asleep until judgement day.

Yes, I am talking about soul sleep.

 

[Clete]

No, it isn't.

I know Judas was without hope of salvation. I know that because Jesus said so, Himself. He said Judas did not believe. He said he was the son of perdition, and a devil. Scripture said satan entered into Judas. That is not limited atonement, it's merely believing what is written in Scripture. Duh.

You're that stupid that you keep playing this game? Seriously? If you're doing it to please the evil one, then you're a worse fool than I thought. And, demanding I answer, like I'm your lap dog, will only get you smacked down.

Would you agree that salvation was possible for Judas in a hypothetical sense?

Disregarding the details of Judas' life decisions that we are told about in scripture and that secured his condemnation, for the sake of argument...

IF Judas had repented and put his faith in Christ, he would have been saved.

Right?

 

[daqq]

Not that I agree with your conclusion in this case, but your premise - about that two worf diffetence "Scriptures" and "writings" IS itself evident in the difference between those two word uses in 2 Timothy 3:15 and 16.

At the same time, just as the Lord had appeared to, Paul there ALSO asserts that both words carry the same weight and authority.

Rom. 5:6-8 towards ya.

That is "letter(s)", gramma, and in the passage it is "sacred letters", (2Tim 3:15, ιερα γραμματα), which no doubt intends Hebrew. Tell me how it is that Timothy had known the sacred Hebrew from a babe, (brephos - infant)? It is because just as Paul himself states concerning himself in Gal 1:15-16, (combined with the allegory in Gal 4:22-31 and the teaching of the Master in John 3:4-5), that one must go back into "the womb of his mother"-covenant, ("Jerusalem of above"), and relearn all things according to the teachings and doctrine of the Master in the Gospel accounts, (just as Nicodemus likewise had to do and did). Paul therefore speaks to Timothy in these terms, for when Elohim called him forth from the womb of his mother, (Jerusalem of above), Timothy was born from above, and although considered "a babe", yet having known the sacred letters, (Hebrew), from that time when he was called forth from the womb. Both Isaiah and Jeremiah speak in the very same supernal terms.

Galatians 1:11-17
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not according to man:
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua.^{(Rev 1:1 - same Greek phrase)}
13 For you have heard of my conversation in time past, in the religion of the Yhudim, how that beyond measure I persecuted the congregation of Elohim and ravaged it:
14 And profited in the religion of the Yhudim above many my equals in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased Elohim, who separated me from the womb of my mother, and called me by His grace:
16 To reveal His Son in me, that I might preach him among the nations, immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Do you see how the statement from 1Cor 15:8 comes into focus here? That is why Paul essentially says he was like a still-born, a miscarriage, (not "born out of due season", but rather, "Not I, [who died] but Messiah", Gal 2:20).

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

here is the whole post of yours:



Quote Originally Posted by Sonnet View Post

Thanks.

You think Moses and David etc went to hell?
Yes, but to the righteous part (Abraham's bosom).






The thread has crystallized into an argument about whether Paul would have told unbelievers, 'Christ died for our sins.' I believe Paul preached that.

take a look at your reply to sonnet I bolded.

He asked about hell and you replied "yes, but righteous part."

My question was spot on. You don't seem to read well.

Many of Jesus' word are not literal. When you die first time, you are just asleep until judgement day.

Yes, I am talking about soul sleep.

It's you who can't read:

I said 'righteous PART [of Hell]'

You took that as I said: 'righteous hell'

Two different descriptions! I am saying there is a part of Hell where the righteous go and you are describing hell as being righteous per-say, which I never said.

Also I am not surprised you can't remember the scripture I am referring to because your behaviour is like that of one who does not have the Holy Spirit, that would bring to mind the correct scripture I refer to. Behaviours such as name calling (I refer to coward x3 and paranoid) and your accusation that it is only because others calling you names, (i.e. lack of forgiveness) and your continued aggressive accusations that my English is lacking in various ways; When it is yours that is continually causing issues in this debate.

It is little wonder I've seen others here either ignore you or argue with you and others still tell you to use your ignore button (as did I). I might ignore you if you can't behave. :yawn: