musterion
Well-known member
Yeah, do that.
What is the Gospel?
- Thread starter Sonnet
- Start date
Yeah, do that.
https://carm.org/did-jesus-die-everyone-my-calvinist-friends-say-no
I’m thanking you... I can’t with the noob sock. So.. I’m saying thank you with writing.
One thank you allowed... It’s musty’s.
EE shutting up... pop the champagne corks... :chuckle:
I have. And, no. I didn’t.
Carm expresses what even Lon does.
Saying Jesus didn’t die for All is the ultimate expression of LA...
GD is in thread record here as saying exactly that Jesus inlyndied for believers as Lon has and also GD is using the false Calvinistic LA defense that Saying Jesus died for All is “universalism”.
IE... GD is teaching LA.
Damnit! On thread record as saying Jesus only died for “Believers”...
That is LA...
https://carm.org/did-jesus-die-everyone-my-calvinist-friends-say-no
That is LA...
https://carm.org/did-jesus-die-everyone-my-calvinist-friends-say-no
Lon profess s Calvinism... so He’s not a snake in the grass...
But the entire thread is GD denying that Jesus died for all.
She spelled out in black and white that God onlyndoed for “Believers”... which... if taken out of a reformed view of time and God...
Which GD agrees with... she does not believe in limiting of foreknowledge... so... in turn... she has now predestined people to hell in her teaching... and others are accepting her heresy that aren’t Calvinists!!!
When I get angry... it’s with good cause!
musterion
Well-known member
True!
You have not thought this through.
Christ did die for believers and did so when they were unbelievers.
As near as I can tell, that's what Glory said - Christ died for believers when they were in unbelief. And that's what Paul said.
So, was Paul teaching L.A.?
Lon
Well-known member
I cannot put this to rest, but I can explain it a little.
God, now and at the end of time, has the Lamb's book of life. All names 'then' (bema seat) if not now, are written in the Lamb's book of Life. An Arminian says that book is written 'after' and not finished being written yet, such that logically (whether he/she realizes it or not), God has no Foreknowledge/Limited.
The Calvinist, however, believes God's Foreknowledge is what is 'Unlimited' and therefore Atonement is necessarily 'Limited' in this: That God knows and knew, exactly who He died for as if it all were a done deal.
It is always Exhaustive Foreknowledge that is the difference between camps. If one has a head for thinking about difficult subjects, he/she will more readily understand the Calvinist position AND will not be too hung up on it, understanding that man is finite in this scenario (both actually).
A Calvinist then, isn't teaching against the gospel, if you understand this, he/she is rather understanding God as Omniscient and Sovereign. Such logically points to a direction that God necessarily knew the full scope of the death on the cross AND purposed to save those specifically that would be saved (again, if it is true He knows exactly who was, is, and ever will be written in the Lamb's book of life.
No Calvinist 'should' ever say God is 'willing that any should perish.'
Rather, they better stick to the scripture that says this exactly as an Arminian or Open Theist (among others): 2 Peter 3:9 Rather, what a Calvinist is trying to make certain, is that God is never at the mercy of any man for His purposes. We realize this is not the case, that love makes God subservient to man, in an Open present and future. Such, however, questions the very divine incommunicable attributes of God and, ALSO has God's ways specifically 'not' higher than man's at such point. Isaiah 55:8,9
Revelation 20:15, by example and 'proof' says that the Lamb's book is 'already' complete, by example.
As I said, does not put this to rest, but I do hope it helps someone have an 'ah ha' moment for being able to see
the other's side, maybe walk a mile... :e4e: In Him -Lon
God, now and at the end of time, has the Lamb's book of life. All names 'then' (bema seat) if not now, are written in the Lamb's book of Life. An Arminian says that book is written 'after' and not finished being written yet, such that logically (whether he/she realizes it or not), God has no Foreknowledge/Limited.
The Calvinist, however, believes God's Foreknowledge is what is 'Unlimited' and therefore Atonement is necessarily 'Limited' in this: That God knows and knew, exactly who He died for as if it all were a done deal.
It is always Exhaustive Foreknowledge that is the difference between camps. If one has a head for thinking about difficult subjects, he/she will more readily understand the Calvinist position AND will not be too hung up on it, understanding that man is finite in this scenario (both actually).
A Calvinist then, isn't teaching against the gospel, if you understand this, he/she is rather understanding God as Omniscient and Sovereign. Such logically points to a direction that God necessarily knew the full scope of the death on the cross AND purposed to save those specifically that would be saved (again, if it is true He knows exactly who was, is, and ever will be written in the Lamb's book of life.
No Calvinist 'should' ever say God is 'willing that any should perish.'
Rather, they better stick to the scripture that says this exactly as an Arminian or Open Theist (among others): 2 Peter 3:9 Rather, what a Calvinist is trying to make certain, is that God is never at the mercy of any man for His purposes. We realize this is not the case, that love makes God subservient to man, in an Open present and future. Such, however, questions the very divine incommunicable attributes of God and, ALSO has God's ways specifically 'not' higher than man's at such point. Isaiah 55:8,9
Revelation 20:15, by example and 'proof' says that the Lamb's book is 'already' complete, by example.
As I said, does not put this to rest, but I do hope it helps someone have an 'ah ha' moment for being able to see
the other's side, maybe walk a mile... :e4e: In Him -Lon
Musty...
Ask Glorydaz if Jesus Died for every man that is, was and will be.
Ask her if He excluded Unbelievers...
If she adjusts her response to admit that Jesus died for ALL... she is then recanting what she has written earlier.
If she apologizes for saying... Jesus didn’t die for all... earlier... all is restored.
glorydaz
Well-known member
This is why Evil has decided to lie about me. I hurt his Pride. Look back. It's all there.
All men have access to the blood through faith. I've said it every way that I know how, and I shouldn't have to keep saying it because some idiot with hurt feelings decides he's going to have a hissy fit.
Every single human being has the hope of salvation. How long have I been posting here, Musty?
The fact is, not every man is saved. Justification by faith in the blood is Paul's Gospel, and those who reject it will face the wrath of God.
As it is, Evil has proven he is a big talker and that's it. He'd best examine himself, because I see a lost man who wants to be more than he is.
2 Peter 3:9King James Version (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Amen!!! Though all Unbelievers do not come to “repentance” and believe, thus... damning them... by their choice... Jesus died for them too!
musterion
Well-known member
I already asked that. But look, she doesn't owe me an answer any more than she does you.
I will not abide in your LIES and deception!
Shut your mouth!
Youndenied Jesus died for all and are in record... [MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION]... we both quoted her, so she cannot edit it out.
If you find it... it should be after page 50...
I’ll look...
[MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION]
Don’t feel guilty if you can find her quote. She even has Tambora In in this. I know you are of sensitive Spirit and you get upset if you hurt Christians... but to not dig up GD’s words that she is denying in this matter would actually be hurting her... and others...
The matter can die and GD’s words can stand as they are... but... duplicitous deception is never acceptable in matters of the Gospel... and good news... GD does as she desires others to do for her... and I’m certain she’ll be deeply appreciative of her quotes words that will be brought to light.
I’ll
Don’t feel guilty if you can find her quote. She even has Tambora In in this. I know you are of sensitive Spirit and you get upset if you hurt Christians... but to not dig up GD’s words that she is denying in this matter would actually be hurting her... and others...
The matter can die and GD’s words can stand as they are... but... duplicitous deception is never acceptable in matters of the Gospel... and good news... GD does as she desires others to do for her... and I’m certain she’ll be deeply appreciative of her quotes words that will be brought to light.
I’ll
musterion
Well-known member
You have been here longer than me and I knew that's what you believed. But now that it's unmistakably out in one little sentence, this stuff about you being a Calvinist should be over.
Right, E?
Lon
Well-known member
From a Calvinist perspective, it means that God 'will be, is, was' patient 'for' the salvation of all. IOW, there is always one more point a Calvinist reads scripture than most of our counterparts: "What time
Again, I know this doesn't put the topic to rest. My hope is more to 'help' another grasp where each is coming from. God thinks and acts well beyond me too, so I'm in the same human frailty and finite boat. Every once in awhile, I catch a glimpse of His bigger picture. Like Moses, if even, I catch a glimpse of His glory. I've not generally been too worked up over who is a Calvinist or not, nor who agrees or disagrees. Rather, I simply try to help people think of some of these biblical truths with me, and me them (you). In Him -Lon
musterion
Well-known member
Knock yourself out but I've known her and read her stuff longer than you've been here and she has never ever taught anything like LA. Not to brag but if anybody would notice it, it would be me, who has been posting against LA before you or Sonnet ever got here (ask Lon).
I’ll tell you what...
It’s “almost good enough.
Could you please ask Glory “if Jesus died for ALL that were, are and will be?”?
If she answers yes or no... without obfuscation... I will apologize to her.