Saying it doesn't make it so, Oatsy.
You cannot find a single verse that says that God chose individuals before the creation of the universe. It simply doesn't exist.
You CAN, however, find verses that use words like "us" and "we," and other plural pronouns, which describe a group of people (not the individuals, but the group itself) before the world began. (e.g. Ephesians 1:4)
You can ALSO find verses throughout the Bible that show that, even though people were chosen (before they were born (but NOT before they were conceived, by the way), no less) to serve God for all eternity, but whom largely rebelled against Him and went to Hell. (e.g. Numbers 16)
There are also a few instances where God chooses someone's descendants before those descendants are conceived, but as far as what you're trying to get at, there is no indication that God determined before He created the universe who those individuals would be nor that He knew what they would be like later, only that He would incorporate them into his plan. (e.g. Genesis 17:19)
When you get an overview of the Bible, you see that God had a few different plans. The primary plan was to make man and to be his God. And if man rebelled against Him, then He would send His Son to die for man, to redeem him. His secondary plan, in the case of man rebelling, was to have a spokesnation (like a spokesperson, but on a national scale), because God knew (because He created man and knows how he works) that trying to establish direct relationships with men who are in rebellion with him would only result in those men hardening their hearts against Him, who would be in service to Him and would be able to reach other nations and get them to turn back to Him.
His tertiary plan, which He kept secret since before He created (the mystery Paul talks about), was to form relationships with individuals, rather than on a national scale, so that He could once again fellowship with man as He did with Adam in the beginning, and as the Persons of the Trinity fellowshipped with one another throughout eternity past.
In other words, I'm not the one spouting his opinion here. You are. I'm telling you what the Bible says.
Saying it doesn't make it so, Oatsy.
That is right, even if you say it.
Why not live up to your username on this subject and apply your right judging to your statements as well.
You stated, in post 52
Simple. He didn't. At least, not YOU, specifically.
Saying it doesn't make it so,
You cannot find a single verse that says that God chose individuals before the creation of the universe. It simply doesn't exist.
So what?
Every individual that God chose is included in the "us" and "we" of
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
How did God choose if not individually?
Did he simply choose one big group of people? People that did not exist yet? People who would be spread over many generations?
Judge for yourself? Judge rightly. Did God just choose some random group consisting of believers and unbelievers and hope for the best?
Is a group simply a group with no distinct individuals or do groups consist of individuals?
The truth that God chose us before the foundation of the world is really remarkable. As you point out, that is not mentioned until Ephesians 1:4
Evidently, God foreknew but did not reveal a lot of things, including the truth that He had chosen people before the foundation of the world.
We must be significant to God's plan for God to do so.
We are supposed to be holy and without blame before him in love.
His tertiary plan, which He kept secret since before He created (the mystery Paul talks about), was to form relationships with individuals, rather than on a national scale, so that He could once again fellowship with man as He did with Adam in the beginning, and as the Persons of the Trinity fellowshipped with one another throughout eternity past.
To form relationships with individuals. Just like I said. that includes me, as an individual.
Thank you for your support!
What trinity? Why do you refer to God as an individual if there are three? "He, He, He"????
It there are three, then it is a group.
Persons are not a "He" but a "they".
Please learn how to be consistent, God is,
We are to holy and without blame before Him in love.
What is God?
a. He?
b. Persons?
What does scripture say?
