What is forgiveness?

[Eric h]

Perhaps we should admit the mistake and say forgiveness is not love, but prepares the way for love?

I think you are on the right track, but I would say it slightly different.

The greatest commandments are to love God and to love our neighbour as we love ourselves.

If you are angry with your neighbour, then you cannot love them as you love yourself. Nothing must stand in the way of living the greatest, so forgiveness is needed to overcome any barriers,

 

[Spockrates]

What is forgiveness?

Always wait on the Lord....the more you try to do something, the more satan will accuse you of failing. Once you admit you can never love or forgive as you should....as God does....He will give you the peace, and the understanding there is really NOTHING left for you to forgive.



Why do you think we are to count it ALL JOY when we fall into diverse temptations? This trying of your faith works patience....be patient. You will not want for a forgiving heart...God will work it in you.

James 1:2-4

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.​

Well, I'm not so sure my desire to know what forgiveness is and thereby learn how God wants me to forgive is a temptation. Nor do I think I'm tempted to give up seeking the truth. For I've been asking questions like these in forums like these for awhile now. Maybe I'm being foolish? Not sure what to call a never ending hope that God will reveal forgiveness by speaking to me through one of his kids.

 

[Spockrates]

If you have truly forgiven, then you give up the right to throw a punch







Yes, I believe he would be mistaken

I think giving up the right to throw a punch is much more than a feeling. It's something I do. So does that mean forgiveness is more than a feeling, too?

 

[Spockrates]

I think you are on the right track, but I would say it slightly different.



The greatest commandments are to love God and to love our neighbour as we love ourselves.



If you are angry with your neighbour, then you cannot love them as you love yourself. Nothing must stand in the way of living the greatest, so forgiveness is needed to overcome any barriers,

Then forgiveness is a prerequisite for love, I think you must mean.

 

[glorydaz]

Well, I'm not so sure my desire to know what forgiveness is and thereby learn how God wants me to forgive is a temptation. Nor do I think I'm tempted to give up seeking the truth. For I've been asking questions like these in forums like these for several years now. Maybe I'm being foolish? Not sure what to call a never ending hope that God will reveal forgiveness by speaking to me through one of his kids.

Your desire to know is not the temptation. The temptation comes from the accuser who is telling people that God won't forgive them if they don't forgive others. The temptation comes from the accuser to cause you to believe you must do what only God can do through you. It's that self-effort that gets people every time.

When we enter into God's rest, we cease from our own efforts, and trust in God to do the work in us. God is waiting for you to trust Him in this as in all else. He will perform that which we can never perform on our own. God will change your heart....wait on HIM. One day, when you finally trust HIM to do what all your striving can never accomplish, you will see that you bear no ill will toward anyone.

God wants you to forgive by trusting Him to do it....to change your heart. It's His job to conform you into the image of the Son.

 

[Spockrates]

So I find it fascinating that forgiveness seems at the moment to be nothing like a form of love, as I at first thought it must be. If true, it helps a great deal in figuring out the true meaning of forgiveness. For we would then be able to rule out every scripture about love as speaking of something other than forgiving.

Is everyone pretty much in agreement that forgiving is never loving and forgiveness cannot possibly be love?

 

[glorydaz]

And forgive for making such a big deal about forgiveness. You see, it is a big deal to me.

Which is exactly what the accuser of the brethren wants. It keeps you out of the battle.....focused on yourself and your own "failings". He is telling you it's a big deal, so you want to fix it. It's not something you can fix...not through any self effort. But, the LORD can and will once you see what's going on here.

 

[glorydaz]

So I find it fascinating that forgiveness seems at the moment to be nothing like a form of love, as I at first thought it must be. If true, it helps a great deal in figuring out the true meaning of forgiveness. For we would then be able to rule out every scripture about love as speaking of something other than forgiving.

Is everyone pretty much in agreement that forgiving is never loving and forgiveness cannot possibly be love?

Nope.

 

[intojoy]

So I find it fascinating that forgiveness seems at the moment to be nothing like a form of love, as I at first thought it must be. If true, it helps a great deal in figuring out the true meaning of forgiveness. For we would then be able to rule out every scripture about love as speaking of something other than forgiving.

Is everyone pretty much in agreement that forgiving is never loving and forgiveness cannot possibly be love?

When we forgive, someone pays the debt. Forgiving requires suffering. We are beings that were created with a need for unconditional all accepting love. The problem is that none of us can give this kind of love that we so desperately need because all of our love is conditional in some way. The only one who could give this love we need is the Messiah.

If someone breaks a lamp in someone's home, the owner of that lamp can say: I forgive you, I will replace the lamp. If he does, he suffers the debt, he goes without light in that part of the home. Or he can force the other man to pay the debt, somebody will always pay the debt. If we refuse to forgive, we are forcing the other to suffer for his action, we can sometimes even take pleasure in seeing the other pay the debt but if we do this, we are not really forgiving.
This is exactly what the Messiah did for you and for me, He paid our debt. And if we read the accounts of Messiah's death it tells us that He was silent. What we don't have in this example is Jesus manning up and being a tough willed person, what Messiah showed to us is that He completely forgives us and gave us His all accepting, unconditional love in order so that we could become the beings he created us to become. Our problem is that we are so prideful that we are not willing to give up anything for others. What are you and I willing to place upon the altar? We need to yield ourselves upon the altar by being humble and forgiving others as Christ forgave us. If we do this, we can experience true joy and true peace and we can learn to give each other that kind of unconditional love even if its in just a small way. And as we grow we will learn to become servants of the Most High God.

 

[intojoy]

We are creating debts continually on this forum and then we see ourselves trying to make others suffer these debts (insults). Some more than others. Geeknick , self glory gazer

 

[patrick jane]

We are creating debts continually on this forum and then we see ourselves trying to make others suffer these debts (insults). Some more than others. Geeknick , self glory gazer

I forgive you, jack monkey

 

[glorydaz]

We are creating debts continually on this forum and then we see ourselves trying to make others suffer these debts (insults). Some more than others. Geeknick , self glory gazer

:rotfl:

 

[intojoy]

:rotfl:

Yay! Forgiveness!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

We are creating debts continually on this forum and then we see ourselves trying to make others suffer these debts (insults). Some more than others. Geeknick , self glory gazer

Who is we? Do ya have a mouse in your pocket?

 

[intojoy]

Who is we? Do ya have a mouse in your pocket?

You're the worst one. Never willing to suffer any insults, always seeking to better yourself.

The difference between me and the heretics is I adhere to sound doctrine.
Which is why I'm not a convenient enemy for you to blast off on like Meshak.

Obviously you don't forgive anyone including me. Which makes it so much the more delightful.

 

[Psalmist]

What is forgiveness?

It is forgiving adultery, and having a long marriage of 55 plus years and still counting. ​

 

[Spockrates]

Your desire to know is not the temptation. The temptation comes from the accuser who is telling people that God won't forgive them if they don't forgive others. The temptation comes from the accuser to cause you to believe you must do what only God can do through you. It's that self-effort that gets people every time.

Then I thank God you are here to open my eyes to my self-deception, which is something I try to be diligent to do. I take to heart the words of Socrates, the father of philosophy:

"I have long been wondering at my own wisdom. I cannot trust myself, and I think that I ought to stop and ask myself, 'What am I saying?' For there is nothing worse than self-deception, when the deceiver is always at home and always with you. It is quite terrible!"

(Cratylus)

When we enter into God's rest, we cease from our own efforts, and trust in God to do the work in us. God is waiting for you to trust Him in this as in all else. He will perform that which we can never perform on our own. God will change your heart....wait on HIM. One day, when you finally trust HIM to do what all your striving can never accomplish, you will see that you bear no ill will toward anyone.



God wants you to forgive by trusting Him to do it....to change your heart. It's His job to conform you into the image of the Son.

I hear what you are saying about God not requiring me to meet the condition of forgiving others before he continues to forgive me. But when I hear Jesus words, I wonder if what you say is true:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

(Matthew 6:15)

Please tell me: What do your eyes see when they read these words?

 

[Spockrates]

What is forgiveness?

Nope.

Glad you said so! So please explain why you believe forgiveness is a kind of love.

 

[Spockrates]

What is forgiveness?

When we forgive, someone pays the debt. Forgiving requires suffering. We are beings that were created with a need for unconditional all accepting love. The problem is that none of us can give this kind of love that we so desperately need because all of our love is conditional in some way. The only one who could give this love we need is the Messiah.

If someone breaks a lamp in someone's home, the owner of that lamp can say: I forgive you, I will replace the lamp. If he does, he suffers the debt, he goes without light in that part of the home. Or he can force the other man to pay the debt, somebody will always pay the debt. If we refuse to forgive, we are forcing the other to suffer for his action, we can sometimes even take pleasure in seeing the other pay the debt but if we do this, we are not really forgiving.
This is exactly what the Messiah did for you and for me, He paid our debt. And if we read the accounts of Messiah's death it tells us that He was silent. What we don't have in this example is Jesus manning up and being a tough willed person, what Messiah showed to us is that He completely forgives us and gave us His all accepting, unconditional love in order so that we could become the beings he created us to become. Our problem is that we are so prideful that we are not willing to give up anything for others. What are you and I willing to place upon the altar? We need to yield ourselves upon the altar by being humble and forgiving others as Christ forgave us. If we do this, we can experience true joy and true peace and we can learn to give each other that kind of unconditional love even if its in just a small way. And as we grow we will learn to become servants of the Most High God.

Thanks for those insightful words, but did you answer the question? If you did, please forgive me for not comprehending.

 

[Spockrates]

What is forgiveness?

What is forgiveness?



It is forgiving adultery, and having a long marriage of 55 plus years and still counting. ​

Hi psalmist. That's encouraging. Please describe in what way you forgave. I mean, if someone asks, "What's forgiveness?" and you reply, "It's forgiving," I think the question remains unanswered. Don't you?