ECT WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT KJV-ONLY THINKING ??
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
Nice of you to interpret my words for me.
:chuckle:
But actually, I see that this way - a copy of a copy of a copy and so on, all the way back to the original - a copy in a line of copies that follows the original - carries the exact same weight and authority as the originally inspired version.
This is obvious in Paul's copies of whatever many copies of copies back to the original, his copies may have been.
For he refers both to his and Timothy's copies as "Given by inspiration of God."
You know he is talking about the weight and authority of both their copies.
Just as the Lord Himself had referred to that copy of Isaiah handed Him to read in Luke 4, as "this Scripture."
You are reading your own ideas into where I am coming from.
I'm Acts 9 MAD - I know my every doctrine in very specific detail.
Nice try on your part, though, lol
Rom. 5:6-8.
Not at all.
Not that I agree with your every point thus far, but at the same time, not only have you not gone all insults, but have presented some words on these issues that those actually committed to getting to the truth of these issues would do well to allow themselves to be challenged by.
Keep it coming, K.C.
:thumb:
Rom. 5: 6-8.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Spot on.
Fair enough. You have no quarrel with me, D, on this issue.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Hi and no one examined 1 Tim 1:4 where the words used here is " godly edifying " and the Greek word here for " edifying " in the Greek is OIKODOME But that is not the Greek word in verse 4 , it is the Greek word OIKONOMIA or Dispensation !!
Here is another one in Eph 4:5 and it says " ONE BAPTISM " and when checked , it is the Greek word " BAPTISMA " some 22 times more and I believe in 2 Tim 2:15 , study to be APPROVED and as I have said I only use the KJV and I am not says to DISCARD the KJV !!
dan p
No such thing as "the Greek." You tell us what you've learned, but not what you believe.
Where can we get a copy of the scriptures? Does it have a name?
And I "use" a car manual, I "use" a dictionary, I "use" "Play-Doh" to make a model car, I "use" a food menu..................That does not make them scripture/a real car/food..............
Tell us what you believe.
Amazing.... "Christians" posting the above jazz, as it is actually "nuts" to believe that the LORD God, who created the universe, raises the dead................actually communicated His scripture, which, by definition, has no errors, and subsequently preserved it, in the same manner, as most "use"/"prefer" a "the bible," like they "choose" ice cream, TV shows, movies.....................not on the basis of truth, the faithfulness of the LORD God, as veracity is a side issue.
Hi john , read post #47 , is that post wrong or NOT ??
Lets see what you have learned and let's see what you really have ??
So there is no Greek and you know what it is written IN , so teach us , John ??
dan p
My post #6-no evasion. Answer.
Slower: There is no such thing as "the" Greek, so quit trying to con people. There are at least 30 "the" Greek texts, upon which the bible is comprised.
Where can we get a copy of the scriptures? Does it have a name?
Nowhere is this stated in the Holy Bible, i.e., that only the "original autographs" were inspired This "Originals Only-ism" is a scam, attempting to talk the babes/sheep, out of their faith in the book. The Holy Bible does not mention the "originals", nor does the Holy Bible give them a superior distinction over the copies Timothy had-"...from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,..."(2 Timothy 3:15 KJV). Nor does the Holy bible give them a superior distinction over other language scriptures or translations. Nor does the Holy Bible give us superior distinction of the "originals" over the "preserved" or over the possessed scriptures.
"Scripture" is always referred to as copies(check it out-Acts 17:11 KJV).
"....that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:..." Deut. 17:18 KJV
"And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel." Joshua 8:32 KJV
"These are also proverbs of Solomon, which the men of Hezekiah king of Judah copied out." Proverbs 25:1 KJV
"Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!" Job 19:23 KJV
Implicit in this "originals only" view is the belief that God did not bother to preserve his words in pure form, though some say that the "originals" can be reconstructed by so-called "scholarship." Perhaps it does not occur to those who support this view, that without the "original autographs" to which to compare them, there is no way to know whether or not the "originals" have been restored.
The "originals" never existed together in a collated 66 book form, and crumpled into dust thousands of years ago. No one alive today has ever seen the "originals", and even if they "appeared" today, how would you know they were the "originals"(rhetorical question)?
Since we no longer have the "originals", and thus, by this view, no translation is inspired, did God preserve inspired scripture or UN-inspired scripture? Is there such a thing as an UN-inspired word of God or scripture ? What happened to the "uncorruptible....word of God, which liveth and abideth forever"(1 Peter 1:23 KJV) if it only refers to the originals, which no longer exist?
Did Timothy have the "originals" in 2 Timothy 3:15 KJV ? Did the eunuch "sitting in his chariot " have the "originals"(Acts 8:27-28 KJV). Did the Lord Jesus Christ read from the "originals" in Luke 6:17 KJV? And on and on.....
It's a scam, con game.
"Scripture" is always referred to as copies(check it out-Acts 17:11 KJV).
"....that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:..." Deut. 17:18 KJV
"And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel." Joshua 8:32 KJV
"These are also proverbs of Solomon, which the men of Hezekiah king of Judah copied out." Proverbs 25:1 KJV
"Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!" Job 19:23 KJV
Implicit in this "originals only" view is the belief that God did not bother to preserve his words in pure form, though some say that the "originals" can be reconstructed by so-called "scholarship." Perhaps it does not occur to those who support this view, that without the "original autographs" to which to compare them, there is no way to know whether or not the "originals" have been restored.
The "originals" never existed together in a collated 66 book form, and crumpled into dust thousands of years ago. No one alive today has ever seen the "originals", and even if they "appeared" today, how would you know they were the "originals"(rhetorical question)?
Since we no longer have the "originals", and thus, by this view, no translation is inspired, did God preserve inspired scripture or UN-inspired scripture? Is there such a thing as an UN-inspired word of God or scripture ? What happened to the "uncorruptible....word of God, which liveth and abideth forever"(1 Peter 1:23 KJV) if it only refers to the originals, which no longer exist?
Did Timothy have the "originals" in 2 Timothy 3:15 KJV ? Did the eunuch "sitting in his chariot " have the "originals"(Acts 8:27-28 KJV). Did the Lord Jesus Christ read from the "originals" in Luke 6:17 KJV? And on and on.....
It's a scam, con game.
My first order of business as a Christian will always be: I will proclaim only that "message" that is derived from a "credible witness." If the witness is not credible, then "interpretation"="the MESSAGE", is divorced from objective reality. No interpretation, no "the Message", whether it be dispensationalism or "whatever", is worthwhile, or credible if truth can still be considered truth despite ERRORS. If biblical certainty/assurance are lost, then biblical authority, and its resulting "interpretation"/"the MESSAGE" is impossible. If the biblical text is unreliable, then the Holy Bible's own claims about representing the full and objective truth about God cannot be substantiated or believed. The Holy Bible's authority to rule over us, to call us back to the LORD God, to offer justification and eternal life through the offence of the cross, and the resurrection, and any "interpretive methods", dispensationalism or otherwise, evaporates. And a discussion of the soundness of the dispensational approach to understanding the LORD God's revelation of Himself, and His "blueprint" for all, is mere "going through the motions", "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic", if the source for understanding these objective truths is flawed in any way.
My second order of business, whether I am speaking with a fellow believer, or an unbeliever, is not that we "agree" on anything. I found out, the "hard way", that the principle of right division, and a dispensational approach to understanding/interpreting("the MESSAGE"), will be a minority viewpoint(as is, and will be, Christianity), and most will not "agree" with me in this matter. I expect that-popularity is never, and should never, be the determining factor/the issue in discovering the truth. However, I do expect fellow believers to agree that the LORD God has made good on His promise to preserve His inspired, without error/perfect word as OBJECTIVE TRUTH. If the Holy Bible is flawed, then it cannot be the final authority it claims; If it is flawed, the Holy Bible may advise, "provide a few pointers", suggest, and encourage, but it cannot require or demand. If it is flawed, the Holy Bible may teach("doctrine"), may ask you to "study"(2 Tim. 2:15 KJV), may ask you to meditate, may give you a "pep talk", may "coach"(instruct), but it cannot dictate.
If the purety, sureness, and perfection of The Holy Bible as a present possession is not worth fighting for, what is? I will "argue" for this,hopefully, until I die, or am "plucked"/"caught up"/"delivered" out of this "present evil world"(Galatians 1:4 KJV). And my motivation for doing this? This I do for the glory of God.
My second order of business, whether I am speaking with a fellow believer, or an unbeliever, is not that we "agree" on anything. I found out, the "hard way", that the principle of right division, and a dispensational approach to understanding/interpreting("the MESSAGE"), will be a minority viewpoint(as is, and will be, Christianity), and most will not "agree" with me in this matter. I expect that-popularity is never, and should never, be the determining factor/the issue in discovering the truth. However, I do expect fellow believers to agree that the LORD God has made good on His promise to preserve His inspired, without error/perfect word as OBJECTIVE TRUTH. If the Holy Bible is flawed, then it cannot be the final authority it claims; If it is flawed, the Holy Bible may advise, "provide a few pointers", suggest, and encourage, but it cannot require or demand. If it is flawed, the Holy Bible may teach("doctrine"), may ask you to "study"(2 Tim. 2:15 KJV), may ask you to meditate, may give you a "pep talk", may "coach"(instruct), but it cannot dictate.
If the purety, sureness, and perfection of The Holy Bible as a present possession is not worth fighting for, what is? I will "argue" for this,hopefully, until I die, or am "plucked"/"caught up"/"delivered" out of this "present evil world"(Galatians 1:4 KJV). And my motivation for doing this? This I do for the glory of God.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:BRAVO:
Hi John and in 2 Tim 3:16 it reads , God Breathed all scripture !!
It does not say God BREATHED into translations !!
The Greek word THEOPNESTOS means Divinely Breathed , so where does it say that Translations are God Breathed ??
In 1 Peter 1:21 , but holy man of God spake as they moved by the Holy Spirit !!
Are you saying the man n TRANSLATED they were n MOVED by the Holy Spirit ??
You have AVOIDED in answering 1 Tim 1:4 or Eph 4:5 , one BAPTISMA instead of BAPTIZO , Cat got your tongue ??
Name calling by you is LOL ??
dan p
Deception.
Nowhere is this stated in the Holy Bible, i.e., that only the "original autographs" were "is given by inspiration," and everything else now is "un inspired."
Chapter, verse, where a translation cannot be "is given by inspiration."
Who taught you that a translation cannot be inspired? Where in the word of God(please cite/quote a specific passage from either a version,or from the 5000+ manuscripts)does being a translation invalidate a work from being the word of God?If this is true, then even the "originals" would be condemned(see Acts 8:32-33/Isaiah 53:7-8 KJV/Heb. 3:7-11 KJV, 10:15 KJV/Psalms 95:7-11 KJV.....) Even the "originals" contained translations.
If no translation can be inspired, then approximately 40 verses in the NT are not inspired, since they, even in the "original autographs", were Greek translations of the Hebrew OT. How do you reconcile the "verbal inspiration" of the NT, and yet allow for 40 uninspired verses?
Consider Hebrews 10:15-16 KJV, which is from Jeremiah 31:33-34 KJV, when the writer writes in Greek from the Hebrew-it is obvious the Holy Spirit is also a witness, when the Hebrew was translated into Greek. If from Hebrew to Greek, could not God have His word translated from Greek to English, Spanish.......?
No translation can be inspired? This would be news to Moses! Is Exodus 5-11 inspired? All these conversations that took place between Moses and Pharaoh were in Egyptian. And yet, when Moses wrote the book of Exodus, all these conversations were written in Hebrew-they were "translations". How about Joseph in Genesis? He spoke in Egyptian to hide his identity from his brothers(Gen 42:23 KJV). Yet Moses wrote it down in Hebrew-a translation.
What about the sign that was nailed to the cross? That consisted of Latin, Greek, and Hebrew-at least 2 had to be translations. Were these not inspired?
Matthew 27:46 KJV? The Lord Jesus Christ cried out in Aramaic, and yet in the very same verse there was given a translation.
Preservation provides us a biblical basis for our faith to "rest on". God has pledged to preserve His word throughout history in a multiplicity of without error COPIES-the COPIES are the issue in preservation, NOT the "original" autographs or manuscripts.
Again...
"...he shall write him a COPY(emphasis mine) of this law IN A BOOK(emphasis mine) out of that which is before the priests the Levites...." Deut. 17:18 KJV
If you, or anyone, call a book "the Bible", scripture, you are calling it the word of God. And if it is the "word of God"/scripture, , it then must be inerrant; if so, and if no translation is inerrant, which you stated, or infallible, then properly you cannot call it the word of God, or properly, scripture, , "the Bible". Therefore, I believe from now on you, or anyone else, should revise your vocabulary and refrain from calling any translation "the word of God", if you are going to be logically consistent with the meaning of language.
Derf
Well-known member
It doth seemeth to me to fetch a compass around what thou needest most to discusseth.
Show us "Originals-only-ism," from the book-where does it say that these "originals" are God Breathed? Were the second set of 10 commandments, "God breathed?" Moses trashed "the originals."
You're a fraud.
Clueless you are. 1 Peter is discussing the origin of prophecy, not scripture. All scripture is given by inspiration...Men/women are not "inspired."
You've avoided my post #6, deceiver, fraud.
Define bible believer.Where can we get a copy of the scriptures? Does it have a name?
Not a peep.
Vs.
Fraud. Scammer.
Hi and I answered you in post #57 , and you did not read it , thought so !!
You are completely and deliberately avoiding 1 Tim 1:4 and Eph 4:5 as your mind will NEVER examine what it really means !!
You said that what is Greek , and must be Greek to you , LOL !!
You avoid BECAUSE you can not or will not look it up and see that I am right and it will be hard to WALK Back what every one can see what you wrote , LOL !!
dan p
No, you punted, you fraud, and I picked apart your "Originals Only-ism" scam, and your "no translation can be is given by inspiration" scam.
Prove:
-"Originals-Only-ism"
-"Errors-Only-ism"
-"Any versions Only-ism"
-That the scriptures, by its own testimony, can have errors, and still be considered, "is given by inspiration" scripture
-The "originals" had no errors."how will you prove IT'=your words.
="Here is a bunch of error filled "versions," and I will compare them, with each other, employ them, to correct other error filled versions/translations, to arrive at "perfection?" Is that it? Cannot be done.
Tell, all of us:
-Your infallible source authority, for correcting any alleged "version," translation, of the word of God
-Where we can get a copy of the preserved, true, perfect, pure, sure, right, sound(by definition) scriptures. Does it have a name?
-How would you know, you had "the originals," or the true, perfect, pure, sure, right, sound(by definition) scriptures, even if someone told you they/you had it, in your hands?
-The chapter, verse, that asserts that a translation cannot be "is given by inspiration."
-Your definition of "bible believer."
No side stepping, humanism, "IMO," speculation. These are simple questions.
Define bible believer.Where can we get a copy of the scriptures? Does it have a name?
Not a peep.
Hi and the ICE TEA got to you !!~
I have never to my knowledge said that the ORIGINAL AUTOGRAPHS are in error !!
I said the TRANSLATIONS are in error , get it straight !!
You are still AVOIDING what 1 Tim 1:4 and what Eph 4:5 , one Baptism means , is it BAPTISM or is it BAPTISMA , is that to HARD for you , !!
dan p