ECT WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT KJV-ONLY THINKING ??
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
Demanding evidence-the Luke 16:41 KJV principle
Being in the financial services industry most of my life(a part time job, per 2 Cor. 5:20 KJV!), I have learned to distinguish between a legitimate objection, which is merely a search for more information, and someone "blowin' smoke up.......". -the "Yea, hath God said....?(Genesis 3:1 KJV) mind set/mentality of most bible correctors.
The Luke 16:31 KJV principle:
If The Lord Christ came down from heaven today, tapped you on the shoulder, and pointed to the King James Bible, and said, "This is it", would you then believe it?
Luke 16:31 KJV is telling us in simple 5th grade English, if people will not believe the scripture's own testimony, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets", they will not be convinced by any evidence, even if one were to rise from the dead, because SCRIPTURE's TESTIMONY is more sure than any physical evidence-2 Peter 1:16-19...Peter's whole point is that even though he was an "eyewitness"=seen with his eyes, scripture's testimony is more reliable=the evidence we must rely on is scripture-verse 19.
It is irrelevant, regarding my point here, as to whether the King James Bible fulfills this promise, or whatever "the Bible" fulfills this promise. The point here is that if someone denies that an all powerful God did promise that He would preserve his inspired word, without error,BY DEFINITION, from scripture's own testimony(evidence), the LORD God commands me not to provide any evidence to those people who reject scripture's own internal testimony: "Nay....if they hear not Moses and the prophets"(Luke 16:30- 31 KJV,i.e., scripture's own testimony-my note), "neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
To those who deny the Holy Bible's own testimony of preservation without error, no amount of evidence will persuade them per Luke 16:31 KJV, and none should be given. We are thus to will leave such alone(Mt. 15:14 KJV).
One of the manifestations of the apostasy Paul warned about in the "last days" of this "dispensation of the grace of God"(2 Timothy 3:1 KJV, Ephesians 3:2 KJV) is the "spiritual molestation" by those who are putting doubt in the believer's mind as to whether God can/did preserve His word. If we do not have the LORD God's inspired, preserved, WITHOUT ERROR word, we have no reason to place our confidence in the LORD God, including the gospel of Christ(1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV), the lynch pin being the resurrection(which none of us witnessed -all we have is scripture's own testimony), and all is vanity.
As I have stated/asked previously: what kind of God do we serve(rhetorical question), who CANNOT PRESERVE HIS WORD without error? The mind set of a bible corrector(unbelief)?:That the LORD God who created the universe, planted a child inside a virgin, warms a mother's heart from the smile of a baby, raised the dead, and saved a (formerly-now I am justified)rotten, evil, no-good scoundrel like me and you, and spoke through Balaam's "donkey",..............................cannot preserve His words without error for us today in a book we call the Holy Bible? David said He would in Psalms 12:6-7 KJV(and others), did he not? Unbelief does not change that truth, for "opinion" and the truth are independent.
My point is simple: We can believe the greatest miracle of God, and the lynch pin/foundation of Christianity, the raising of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead, which is the Holy Bible's testimony(and this truth depends on the absolute integrity of the scriptures from which this fact is derived, which DEMANDS inerrancy of such scripture), and we cannot accept, and outright reject, the testimony from that same scripture, which bible correctors hypocritically state HAS ERRORS, "mistakes," "bad translation," of the Lord God's promise to preserve His word without error using "men prone to error"? And it will not suffice to say a "song and dance spin" that "yeh, but God did not promise to preserve His word only in the King James Bible blah blah blah". The point is that these correctors can accept the greatest , "most difficult" miracle, including the miracle of their salvation, and reject a very "easy" miracle of an all powerful God using formerly rotten, no-good scoundrels "prone to error" to preserve His word WITHOUT error.! And the inevitable result of the unbelief of Bible correctors is that they can accept that God can use men "that are prone to error" to WRITE IN A BOOK His inspired word without error, but cannot comprehend that INSPIRATION WITHOUT PRESERVATION WITHOUT ERROR is useless!
Again, per Luke 16:31 KJV, no evidence will be provided, since it will not persuade, to those who deny that God, who raised His only begotten Son from the dead(1 Cor.15:1-4 KJV), cannot and did not preserve His word without error. If they really believed "the Bible"(which most cannot , or will not identify!), they would also believe that God can and did perform that which He promised. But,but, but, but ........no, no, no, no! They have to "check in" with the so-called "experts", the "scholars" at "The Ivory Tower of Learning" with 15 titles before and after their name that "... have dominion over (their) faith"(2 Cor.1:24 KJV), before they can accept the Holy Bible's own testimony regarding preservation without error. They demand evidence!
Who talked these bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, "scholars," out of their faith in the "volume of the book?" It was certainly not the LORD God. Guess who?Ssssssss....
No mind to bible correctors that ".... faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen....."(Hebrews 11:1 KJV). No mind that we are commanded not to look for "doubting Thomas evidence, "Except I shall see.... I will not believe"(John 20:25 KJV), "scientific proof", "... avoiding... oppositions of science falsely so called"(1 Timothy 6:20 KJV), for that which we are commanded to believe. No, the reason correctors don't accept evidence, is not because of a profound lack of evidence. It is there, and they have been shown If people weren't so fat, lazy, and "spoon-fed" and they got up off their LAZY BOY recliner, they would be shown this by the LORD God. The reason is a profound lack of faith-can't "take God at His word".. They want, they demand, 100% " test tube" type evidence from God , or else John 20:25 KJV, and thus their shout resounds as did the hardened Pharaoh's:
"And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice...." Exodus 5:2 KJV
But such is unbelief-it "waxes the heart". You see, it is not an "intellect" problem-it is a heart problem(Jeremiah 17:9 KJV) These correctors will swallow "hook, line, and sinker" by believing some "theologian" when they write a bible commentary, before they will study(2 Timothy 2:15 KJV and others) and compare the profound differences/contradictions between the King James Bible and their "the bibles"'s, and will believe this theologian when he/she contends that it is not possible that God preserved his word without error in one book, a book we call the Holy Bible, instead of believing the Book's own testimony.
Again, the problem is not lack of evidence . For example,scriptures commands us on how to deal with atheists:It is ludicrous to provide evidence to atheists for the evidence of the existence of God, since scripture's own testimony is that the evidence is clear(internal), and externally God's existence is clear, since bringing evidence to atheists at the bar of their own fallen reasoning predisposes them to interpret everything without God. And thus, the Holy Bible says "... The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God...."(Psalms 14:1 KJV). They know it-and the Holy Bible tells them so. Likewise, it is ludicrous to provide evidence to people such as bible correctors, since their Luke 16:31 KJV un biblical mind set predisposes them to reject any such evidence, and the Bible says not to provide such evidence to those who reject scripture's own testimony, since they will not be persuaded(Luke 16:31 KJV), and scripture's tells people such as them, who deny that God can/did preserve His word without error: you are a fool, "... slow of heart to believe all(emphasis mine) that the prophets have spoken...."(Luke 24:25 KJV). You know God promised to preserve His word without error, and you continually say impossible, and thus deny scripture's own testimony.
Consider this:I wonder why bible correctors do not demand as much proof for the Lord Jesus Christ's Christ's death, burial and resurrection(1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV), before they believed the gospel of Christ, as they require before believing the LORD God's promise to preserve his word without error? Insanity. Again, it is a heart problem, not an evidence/intellect problem.
They deserve no evidence beyond that which is in the scriptures. They have all God's promises regarding preservation without error clearly written, that even a 5th grader can understand and believe, that even "Jethro Bodine with a 6th grade eggeecation" can understand and believe, and yet they raise their "intellectual, scholarly" fist in the face of God and DEMAND proof! Give me evidence beyond "...that which is written"(1 Cor. 4:6 KJV) they demand! And thus man's rebellious nature, which was first revealed in Genesis, the "Seed Plot of The Holy Bible", is put on public display, and continues to this age. And Ecclesiastes 1:9 is once more fulfilled.
But this "only-ism" is intolerant, an "exclusive" position, the correctors shout!!!!! You are limiting Him!!!!!
Despite the "Only-ism" of Christianity, the exclusiveness of Christianity, which, by the law of non-contradiction, makes all other "religions" false/corrupt(which can/must be applied to the "which 'the' Bible issue), one God, one Saviour, one Lamb, and thus "one way" into the presence of God the Father, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father.......and on and on(one city, new Jerusalem, one land, Israel...).And Christians wonder why, when "witnessing"(loosely used here) to Muslims, Jews,.....why they are so ineffective, why they are laughed at, when they attempt to defend the ONE way to a Holy LORD God, the exclusiveness of Christionaity, when they cannot even defend the veracity, the infalliblity of the Book that reveals the truth of EXCLUSIVENESS? Credibilty? The Holy Bible has "weaknesses and errors," the critics shout!!!!
Hmmmmphhh....
And of course, the Lord Jesus Christ is one man from the human race(Gen. 3:15 KJV), from one certain section of the human race(Shem-Gen. 9:26 KJV), from one nation of that section(Hebrew-Gen. 12:1-3 KJV), from one tribe of that Hebrew nation(Judah-Gen. 49:10 KJV), from one family of that tribe(David-2 Sam. 7:16 KJV), from one member of that family(Mary-Is. 7:14 KJV), and from one village belonging to that family member(Bethlehem Ephratah-Micah 5:2 KJV).
We have a "limiting" God, an "exclusionary" LORD God, who, yes, limits us, by His scripture, and limits all of mankind, to access to Him, by His Christ, and, prior to Calvary, the LORD God limited his word, in the OT, to 1 group of people for the whole world
I feel no compulsion to provide any "only-ism" evidence, to any bible critic, who would ask me to "prove" that grass is green, for eg., if that person does not believe grass exists.
I know that is quite deep....But I am quite deep/brilliant.
Again, if one does not accept this scriptural testimony, by faith, that the LORD God, as He promised, made good on this promise to preserved His inspired word, which, by definition, i.e., scripture's own testimony, is without error, then that is akin to rearranging the proverbial "deck chairs on the Titanic." That is, the simple analogy is grass. If you do not believe grass exists, then I will never be able to convince you it is green. No matter how much evidence I lay before you, or refuting of other arguments, you don't believe grass exists, thus it cannot be green. No amount of "arguing", no amount of "evidence", will convince anyone that the KJB is without error, if one holds to the premise that "it is impossible" for the LORD God to "see to it" that a translation be His inspired word. For me to convince anyone that the KJB is the inspired word of God is indeed, futile on my part because their premise won't accept it-"grass does not exist"=the word of God without error today does not exist", therefore"grass is not green"="the KJB is not the word of God." See Luke 16:31 KJV
If you do not tell me "if you believe grass exists", then Luke 16:31, and
"....Neither do I tell..."(Mark 11:33 KJV) you an answer to your question, and "...What I have written I have written."(John 19:22 KJV spiritual application).
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." 1 Cor. 3:19
Those crafty bible critics....Carry on...
Being in the financial services industry most of my life(a part time job, per 2 Cor. 5:20 KJV!), I have learned to distinguish between a legitimate objection, which is merely a search for more information, and someone "blowin' smoke up.......". -the "Yea, hath God said....?(Genesis 3:1 KJV) mind set/mentality of most bible correctors.
The Luke 16:31 KJV principle:
If The Lord Christ came down from heaven today, tapped you on the shoulder, and pointed to the King James Bible, and said, "This is it", would you then believe it?
Luke 16:31 KJV is telling us in simple 5th grade English, if people will not believe the scripture's own testimony, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets", they will not be convinced by any evidence, even if one were to rise from the dead, because SCRIPTURE's TESTIMONY is more sure than any physical evidence-2 Peter 1:16-19...Peter's whole point is that even though he was an "eyewitness"=seen with his eyes, scripture's testimony is more reliable=the evidence we must rely on is scripture-verse 19.
It is irrelevant, regarding my point here, as to whether the King James Bible fulfills this promise, or whatever "the Bible" fulfills this promise. The point here is that if someone denies that an all powerful God did promise that He would preserve his inspired word, without error,BY DEFINITION, from scripture's own testimony(evidence), the LORD God commands me not to provide any evidence to those people who reject scripture's own internal testimony: "Nay....if they hear not Moses and the prophets"(Luke 16:30- 31 KJV,i.e., scripture's own testimony-my note), "neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
To those who deny the Holy Bible's own testimony of preservation without error, no amount of evidence will persuade them per Luke 16:31 KJV, and none should be given. We are thus to will leave such alone(Mt. 15:14 KJV).
One of the manifestations of the apostasy Paul warned about in the "last days" of this "dispensation of the grace of God"(2 Timothy 3:1 KJV, Ephesians 3:2 KJV) is the "spiritual molestation" by those who are putting doubt in the believer's mind as to whether God can/did preserve His word. If we do not have the LORD God's inspired, preserved, WITHOUT ERROR word, we have no reason to place our confidence in the LORD God, including the gospel of Christ(1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV), the lynch pin being the resurrection(which none of us witnessed -all we have is scripture's own testimony), and all is vanity.
As I have stated/asked previously: what kind of God do we serve(rhetorical question), who CANNOT PRESERVE HIS WORD without error? The mind set of a bible corrector(unbelief)?:That the LORD God who created the universe, planted a child inside a virgin, warms a mother's heart from the smile of a baby, raised the dead, and saved a (formerly-now I am justified)rotten, evil, no-good scoundrel like me and you, and spoke through Balaam's "donkey",..............................cannot preserve His words without error for us today in a book we call the Holy Bible? David said He would in Psalms 12:6-7 KJV(and others), did he not? Unbelief does not change that truth, for "opinion" and the truth are independent.
My point is simple: We can believe the greatest miracle of God, and the lynch pin/foundation of Christianity, the raising of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead, which is the Holy Bible's testimony(and this truth depends on the absolute integrity of the scriptures from which this fact is derived, which DEMANDS inerrancy of such scripture), and we cannot accept, and outright reject, the testimony from that same scripture, which bible correctors hypocritically state HAS ERRORS, "mistakes," "bad translation," of the Lord God's promise to preserve His word without error using "men prone to error"? And it will not suffice to say a "song and dance spin" that "yeh, but God did not promise to preserve His word only in the King James Bible blah blah blah". The point is that these correctors can accept the greatest , "most difficult" miracle, including the miracle of their salvation, and reject a very "easy" miracle of an all powerful God using formerly rotten, no-good scoundrels "prone to error" to preserve His word WITHOUT error.! And the inevitable result of the unbelief of Bible correctors is that they can accept that God can use men "that are prone to error" to WRITE IN A BOOK His inspired word without error, but cannot comprehend that INSPIRATION WITHOUT PRESERVATION WITHOUT ERROR is useless!
Again, per Luke 16:31 KJV, no evidence will be provided, since it will not persuade, to those who deny that God, who raised His only begotten Son from the dead(1 Cor.15:1-4 KJV), cannot and did not preserve His word without error. If they really believed "the Bible"(which most cannot , or will not identify!), they would also believe that God can and did perform that which He promised. But,but, but, but ........no, no, no, no! They have to "check in" with the so-called "experts", the "scholars" at "The Ivory Tower of Learning" with 15 titles before and after their name that "... have dominion over (their) faith"(2 Cor.1:24 KJV), before they can accept the Holy Bible's own testimony regarding preservation without error. They demand evidence!
Who talked these bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, "scholars," out of their faith in the "volume of the book?" It was certainly not the LORD God. Guess who?Ssssssss....
No mind to bible correctors that ".... faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen....."(Hebrews 11:1 KJV). No mind that we are commanded not to look for "doubting Thomas evidence, "Except I shall see.... I will not believe"(John 20:25 KJV), "scientific proof", "... avoiding... oppositions of science falsely so called"(1 Timothy 6:20 KJV), for that which we are commanded to believe. No, the reason correctors don't accept evidence, is not because of a profound lack of evidence. It is there, and they have been shown If people weren't so fat, lazy, and "spoon-fed" and they got up off their LAZY BOY recliner, they would be shown this by the LORD God. The reason is a profound lack of faith-can't "take God at His word".. They want, they demand, 100% " test tube" type evidence from God , or else John 20:25 KJV, and thus their shout resounds as did the hardened Pharaoh's:
"And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice...." Exodus 5:2 KJV
But such is unbelief-it "waxes the heart". You see, it is not an "intellect" problem-it is a heart problem(Jeremiah 17:9 KJV) These correctors will swallow "hook, line, and sinker" by believing some "theologian" when they write a bible commentary, before they will study(2 Timothy 2:15 KJV and others) and compare the profound differences/contradictions between the King James Bible and their "the bibles"'s, and will believe this theologian when he/she contends that it is not possible that God preserved his word without error in one book, a book we call the Holy Bible, instead of believing the Book's own testimony.
Again, the problem is not lack of evidence . For example,scriptures commands us on how to deal with atheists:It is ludicrous to provide evidence to atheists for the evidence of the existence of God, since scripture's own testimony is that the evidence is clear(internal), and externally God's existence is clear, since bringing evidence to atheists at the bar of their own fallen reasoning predisposes them to interpret everything without God. And thus, the Holy Bible says "... The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God...."(Psalms 14:1 KJV). They know it-and the Holy Bible tells them so. Likewise, it is ludicrous to provide evidence to people such as bible correctors, since their Luke 16:31 KJV un biblical mind set predisposes them to reject any such evidence, and the Bible says not to provide such evidence to those who reject scripture's own testimony, since they will not be persuaded(Luke 16:31 KJV), and scripture's tells people such as them, who deny that God can/did preserve His word without error: you are a fool, "... slow of heart to believe all(emphasis mine) that the prophets have spoken...."(Luke 24:25 KJV). You know God promised to preserve His word without error, and you continually say impossible, and thus deny scripture's own testimony.
Consider this:I wonder why bible correctors do not demand as much proof for the Lord Jesus Christ's Christ's death, burial and resurrection(1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV), before they believed the gospel of Christ, as they require before believing the LORD God's promise to preserve his word without error? Insanity. Again, it is a heart problem, not an evidence/intellect problem.
They deserve no evidence beyond that which is in the scriptures. They have all God's promises regarding preservation without error clearly written, that even a 5th grader can understand and believe, that even "Jethro Bodine with a 6th grade eggeecation" can understand and believe, and yet they raise their "intellectual, scholarly" fist in the face of God and DEMAND proof! Give me evidence beyond "...that which is written"(1 Cor. 4:6 KJV) they demand! And thus man's rebellious nature, which was first revealed in Genesis, the "Seed Plot of The Holy Bible", is put on public display, and continues to this age. And Ecclesiastes 1:9 is once more fulfilled.
But this "only-ism" is intolerant, an "exclusive" position, the correctors shout!!!!! You are limiting Him!!!!!
Despite the "Only-ism" of Christianity, the exclusiveness of Christianity, which, by the law of non-contradiction, makes all other "religions" false/corrupt(which can/must be applied to the "which 'the' Bible issue), one God, one Saviour, one Lamb, and thus "one way" into the presence of God the Father, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father.......and on and on(one city, new Jerusalem, one land, Israel...).And Christians wonder why, when "witnessing"(loosely used here) to Muslims, Jews,.....why they are so ineffective, why they are laughed at, when they attempt to defend the ONE way to a Holy LORD God, the exclusiveness of Christionaity, when they cannot even defend the veracity, the infalliblity of the Book that reveals the truth of EXCLUSIVENESS? Credibilty? The Holy Bible has "weaknesses and errors," the critics shout!!!!
Hmmmmphhh....
And of course, the Lord Jesus Christ is one man from the human race(Gen. 3:15 KJV), from one certain section of the human race(Shem-Gen. 9:26 KJV), from one nation of that section(Hebrew-Gen. 12:1-3 KJV), from one tribe of that Hebrew nation(Judah-Gen. 49:10 KJV), from one family of that tribe(David-2 Sam. 7:16 KJV), from one member of that family(Mary-Is. 7:14 KJV), and from one village belonging to that family member(Bethlehem Ephratah-Micah 5:2 KJV).
We have a "limiting" God, an "exclusionary" LORD God, who, yes, limits us, by His scripture, and limits all of mankind, to access to Him, by His Christ, and, prior to Calvary, the LORD God limited his word, in the OT, to 1 group of people for the whole world
I feel no compulsion to provide any "only-ism" evidence, to any bible critic, who would ask me to "prove" that grass is green, for eg., if that person does not believe grass exists.
I know that is quite deep....But I am quite deep/brilliant.
Again, if one does not accept this scriptural testimony, by faith, that the LORD God, as He promised, made good on this promise to preserved His inspired word, which, by definition, i.e., scripture's own testimony, is without error, then that is akin to rearranging the proverbial "deck chairs on the Titanic." That is, the simple analogy is grass. If you do not believe grass exists, then I will never be able to convince you it is green. No matter how much evidence I lay before you, or refuting of other arguments, you don't believe grass exists, thus it cannot be green. No amount of "arguing", no amount of "evidence", will convince anyone that the KJB is without error, if one holds to the premise that "it is impossible" for the LORD God to "see to it" that a translation be His inspired word. For me to convince anyone that the KJB is the inspired word of God is indeed, futile on my part because their premise won't accept it-"grass does not exist"=the word of God without error today does not exist", therefore"grass is not green"="the KJB is not the word of God." See Luke 16:31 KJV
If you do not tell me "if you believe grass exists", then Luke 16:31, and
"....Neither do I tell..."(Mark 11:33 KJV) you an answer to your question, and "...What I have written I have written."(John 19:22 KJV spiritual application).
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." 1 Cor. 3:19
Those crafty bible critics....Carry on...
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yep, he makes some excellent points, but before I can really ponder them I've been dragged into the weeds by the verbiage, and have forgotten what those points were. I'd wanted to ask Dan to show me in the Greek what those two verses he'd spoken of said, but I found myself afraid to say "the Greek". :shocked:
The importance of "What saith the scripture, about the scripture"....scripture gives such preeminence to the scriptures:
* Romans 4:3 KJV For what saith the scripture (in regards to Abraham)?
* Romans 9:7 ... the scripture saith unto Pharaoh.
* Romans 11:2 ... the scripture saith of Elias? They don't say here, "the Lord saith!" No, the scripture saith!!
* Galatians 3:8 KJV ... the scripture foreseeing that God would... Can scripture look into the future?
* Galatians 3:22 KJV ... the scripture hath concluded all under sin. Can scripture think? Can scripture make
judgements? Can scripture make predictions? This is final authority.
Specifically, "scripture alone" argues that "the volume of the book" is the direct revelation of God as it's source. As such, it has divine final authority, for what the Holy Bible says, The LORD God says:
1." For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth" Romans 9:17 KJV
"And in very deed for this cause have I(referring to the LORD-emphasis mine) raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth" Exodus 9:16 KJV
2. "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." Galatians 3:8 KJV
"And I(referring to the LORD-emhasis mine) will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Genesis 12:3
3. "Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman." Galatians 4:30 KJV
"And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir" Genesis. 15:4 KJV
"Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac" Genesis 21:10 KJV
Thus, what the scripture says is equivalent to what God says.
Understand that, respective members of the boc, sheep/babes.
The Holy Bible makes no distinction. Of course, this is incomprehensible to unbelief, and those who deny the preservation, inspiration, and inerancy of this book, the holy scriptures,the King James Bible,and the power of God.
I am interested in presenting the facts that deal with the final authority of the Holy Bible, and if no one agrees with these facts, they may reject them at their own loss and peril. I am commanded to speak only what the LORD God speaks(2 Chron. 18:13 KJV). People are to be told-it is nothing to me one way or another. After all, to their "own master" they "stand or fall"(Romans 14:4 KJV), and I have never professed to be anyone's master, on TOL, although many have asked me, given my brilliance, in humility.
And, as George would say, "Alright...That;s it for me...Be good, everybody!", as I bow out of this thread, on a high note:
* Romans 4:3 KJV For what saith the scripture (in regards to Abraham)?
* Romans 9:7 ... the scripture saith unto Pharaoh.
* Romans 11:2 ... the scripture saith of Elias? They don't say here, "the Lord saith!" No, the scripture saith!!
* Galatians 3:8 KJV ... the scripture foreseeing that God would... Can scripture look into the future?
* Galatians 3:22 KJV ... the scripture hath concluded all under sin. Can scripture think? Can scripture make
judgements? Can scripture make predictions? This is final authority.
Specifically, "scripture alone" argues that "the volume of the book" is the direct revelation of God as it's source. As such, it has divine final authority, for what the Holy Bible says, The LORD God says:
1." For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth" Romans 9:17 KJV
"And in very deed for this cause have I(referring to the LORD-emphasis mine) raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth" Exodus 9:16 KJV
2. "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed." Galatians 3:8 KJV
"And I(referring to the LORD-emhasis mine) will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Genesis 12:3
3. "Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman." Galatians 4:30 KJV
"And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir" Genesis. 15:4 KJV
"Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac" Genesis 21:10 KJV
Thus, what the scripture says is equivalent to what God says.
Understand that, respective members of the boc, sheep/babes.
The Holy Bible makes no distinction. Of course, this is incomprehensible to unbelief, and those who deny the preservation, inspiration, and inerancy of this book, the holy scriptures,the King James Bible,and the power of God.
I am interested in presenting the facts that deal with the final authority of the Holy Bible, and if no one agrees with these facts, they may reject them at their own loss and peril. I am commanded to speak only what the LORD God speaks(2 Chron. 18:13 KJV). People are to be told-it is nothing to me one way or another. After all, to their "own master" they "stand or fall"(Romans 14:4 KJV), and I have never professed to be anyone's master, on TOL, although many have asked me, given my brilliance, in humility.
And, as George would say, "Alright...That;s it for me...Be good, everybody!", as I bow out of this thread, on a high note:
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That is because there is no such thing as "The Greek," as their are numerous Greek texts, over 5000 Greek manuscripts, and Dan/most know no Greek, cannot speak/write/understand/read it, and could not get a job in a "the Greek" restaurant, mopping floors. And most of the NT was written in Koine Greek, a language almost no Greek even speaks/reads/writes/understands today. The LORD God is quite capable in communicating His word in English, and we do not need these wanna bee alleged "Greek" "experts" to "hep" God out, a God who created the languages.And notice Dan never has identified this "the Greek text." Why is that? I will tell you why:it's a con/scam game, to satisfy their ego addiction. It has no malady, except to believe every word in the book, and not correct it, allowing the book to correct, "revise" them.
There-now I am done here.
I hope he is able.
I didn't know that Dan had taken Greek classes and learned the language.
This is a good point.
Even the manuscripts we have in Greek vary with wording at times.
Case in point is that some have 666 as the number of the beast and some have 616 in Revelation.
A thought...
The KJV correctors largely base many of their assertions on the Greek text the KJV's NT is based on.
They do have a Greek text to point to.
And when they speak of "the original" that is often what they are referring to - to the original LANGUAGE; not to the original COPIES.
At the same time, the KJVO view is that there IS an underlying Greek text the KJV's translation is based on - the TR (RT).
Textus Receptus (Received Text).
Though not always, more often then not, both sides are often actually talking about the original LANGUAGE, when they speak of "the Originals."
Ten to one, that is what DanP is mostly ever referring to - the TR the KJV is based on.
Though I would not say that is always the case with him; at times he has mentioned a difference in Greek manuscripts.
Rom. 5:6-8.
It is a strong delusion.
Reasonably intelligent people, rational in other ways, just lose their senses on this topic.
And the weird thing is that they don’t know the 1611 KJV had 80 books, nor do they seem to consider what happened before 1611 or what happens in countries where English is not the language.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Original Biblical Languages
Original Biblical Languages
Beloved, don't let anything prevent you from digging deeper into Holy Writ, including the original languages of Scripture. Begin to worry when appeal is made to these languages to settle doctrinal disputes. At that point we are being subjected to, and at the mercy of, a presumed priestly caste system of individuals who have facility (real or imagined) with these languages.
While I have a good grounding in these languages, it is my experience that no significant theological differences are settled by some people knowing Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic, or knowing these languages better than others. Language study is helpful, but to think that if we could only "read the Greek," all of our theological problems and conundrums would be solved is simply naive. Now I am not for a moment suggesting that you (or others) think this or have remotely suggested it. I am simply reflecting on the nature of the case. Language study may prove useful to you but let no false advertising lead you to think that it will yield dividends that some claim it will, who use the language to bully people into doctrinal or exegetical agreement.
Part of my concern here, too, is what I've heard some ministers or scholars say: "You can't really understand the Bible unless you read it in the original language." Nonsense. Going to church and hearing a sermon overly seasoned with "the Greek or Hebrew actually says this or that" quite simply violates a simple rule of homiletics: Preparing a sermon is like cooking a meal. You need pots and pans and utensils, but you don't bring them out to the table where people are eating.
The simple fact of the matter is that, by the preserving providence of God, we have some very good English translations. People should never for a minute hesitate to call an accurate translation in their vulgar tongue (i.e., going beyond the English) the Word of God. I've also heard some say you can only call the autographa "the Word of God." Given that no autographa have yet to be discovered, this is wrong and dangerous, especially given that Paul clearly was referring to apographa in 2 Tim. 3:16-17. I winsomely like to think that God probably has a reason why no autographa exist. For, if they did, the noetic effects of our original sinful states would lead us to actually venerate and worship these originals.
A good translation in your language is the Word of God. Are some of these good translations better than others? Of course. Hence a thread like this one.
Lastly, Scripture is not meant to be read and understood simply singly (making us individual mini-Popes), but in the communion of the saints. This is why it is important for the ordained servant to have such a skill. But no one in the church should think that he or she doesn't "really read the Bible" unless they read it in Hebrew or Greek.
AMR
Original Biblical Languages
Beloved, don't let anything prevent you from digging deeper into Holy Writ, including the original languages of Scripture. Begin to worry when appeal is made to these languages to settle doctrinal disputes. At that point we are being subjected to, and at the mercy of, a presumed priestly caste system of individuals who have facility (real or imagined) with these languages.
While I have a good grounding in these languages, it is my experience that no significant theological differences are settled by some people knowing Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic, or knowing these languages better than others. Language study is helpful, but to think that if we could only "read the Greek," all of our theological problems and conundrums would be solved is simply naive. Now I am not for a moment suggesting that you (or others) think this or have remotely suggested it. I am simply reflecting on the nature of the case. Language study may prove useful to you but let no false advertising lead you to think that it will yield dividends that some claim it will, who use the language to bully people into doctrinal or exegetical agreement.
Part of my concern here, too, is what I've heard some ministers or scholars say: "You can't really understand the Bible unless you read it in the original language." Nonsense. Going to church and hearing a sermon overly seasoned with "the Greek or Hebrew actually says this or that" quite simply violates a simple rule of homiletics: Preparing a sermon is like cooking a meal. You need pots and pans and utensils, but you don't bring them out to the table where people are eating.
The simple fact of the matter is that, by the preserving providence of God, we have some very good English translations. People should never for a minute hesitate to call an accurate translation in their vulgar tongue (i.e., going beyond the English) the Word of God. I've also heard some say you can only call the autographa "the Word of God." Given that no autographa have yet to be discovered, this is wrong and dangerous, especially given that Paul clearly was referring to apographa in 2 Tim. 3:16-17. I winsomely like to think that God probably has a reason why no autographa exist. For, if they did, the noetic effects of our original sinful states would lead us to actually venerate and worship these originals.
A good translation in your language is the Word of God. Are some of these good translations better than others? Of course. Hence a thread like this one.
Lastly, Scripture is not meant to be read and understood simply singly (making us individual mini-Popes), but in the communion of the saints. This is why it is important for the ordained servant to have such a skill. But no one in the church should think that he or she doesn't "really read the Bible" unless they read it in Hebrew or Greek.
AMR
Hi and the KJV , " uses godly edifying " in 1 Tim 1:4 but the Greek word is OIKONOMIA or DISPENSATION !
The NIV , ESV and the RSV all uses " FURTHERING THE ADMINISTRATION " but
the Greek word is OIKONOMIA !!
ePH 4:5 , the KJV , RSV , NIV , and ESV translation all use BAPTIZO when the Greek word is BAPTISMA !!
Check Blue Letter Bible , or Bible Hub or check Wikiphepia , do not take my word as I have been labeled and Agnostic and Scamer !!
I learn Greek that is used in the KJV every day and have learned the Tenses , Voices and the MOODS , and I told you not to reply , BEFORE CHECKING with DOCTRINE POLICE and my FREE SPEECH and different thoughts as to what the bible says , can not be expressed , and the best to all !!
And I see AMR that I can not respond to your post 92 , and I just say that OIKONOMIA is a compound Greek word , OIKOS means HOUSE and NOMIA means LAW and I believe that it is the PRIMARY meaning !!
I believe that translators were faced by many Transliterated words !!
dan p
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Ask Mr. Religion
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The word edifying used here means "building up". The word dispensation is often translated administration; this is proper and fitting. It is an differing administration of the one Covenant of Grace. Using dispensation to mean something wholly different is reading into the text versus letting the text speak for itself in concert with the full counsel of Scripture.
If you want to get a handle on these sort of things, perhaps using this volume will be edifying:
https://archive.org/details/analyticalconcor00younuoft
An updated version:
https://www.amazon.com/Youngs-Analytical-Concordance-Bible-Robert/dp/1565638107
Avoid falling for the etymological fallacy:
The belief that an earlier or the earliest meaning of a word is necessarily the right one. That it is fallacious is illustrated by the fact that orchard once meant a treeless garden, treacle a wild beast, and villain a farm laborer.
Context (surrounding and elsewhere) determines much about what the writer actually meant when he wrote what he wrote. Understanding the writer's style is also vital, versus just looking at a word and declaring what you are doing simply by some definition in a dictionary.
At least with Young's you can see all the places a word in the Greek or Hebrew is used and how it is being used in the KJV translation. A useful start towards properly dividing Scripture.
AMR
glorydaz
Well-known member
So my question would be....which verse here is not TRUTH. If one was all we had, would we throw it out as unprofitable or untrue? Isn't God able to keep His word holy?
Is God's word inspired as it pertains to only the originals? John W made it pretty clear that can't be the case. Does God's word lose it's inspiration after passing through the hands of the translators, as the Cobra poster would have us believe? I'm not buying it.
My belief is that God is more than able to bring His word all the way through from the moment it came forth from the Holy Spirit until it reaches the intended target. Not just the ear of the hearer, but the very heart of man.
This verse from Timothy should be a rebuke to every believer to embrace the body ministry because we each are shown great truths from God's Holy Scripture. John W, Dan P, Jerry S, AMR, Tam, and so many others on this forum have participated in the body ministry. I hate to see any breach between us.
1 Tim. 1:4KJV Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 1 Timothy 1:4YLT 4 nor to give heed to fables and endless genealogies, that cause questions rather than the building up of God that is in faith: -- 1 Timothy 1:4ESV 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship[a] from God that is by faith. 1 Timothy 1:4RSV 4 nor to occupy themselves with myths and endless genealogies which promote speculations rather than the divine training[a] that is in faith; |
Is God's word inspired as it pertains to only the originals? John W made it pretty clear that can't be the case. Does God's word lose it's inspiration after passing through the hands of the translators, as the Cobra poster would have us believe? I'm not buying it.
My belief is that God is more than able to bring His word all the way through from the moment it came forth from the Holy Spirit until it reaches the intended target. Not just the ear of the hearer, but the very heart of man.
This verse from Timothy should be a rebuke to every believer to embrace the body ministry because we each are shown great truths from God's Holy Scripture. John W, Dan P, Jerry S, AMR, Tam, and so many others on this forum have participated in the body ministry. I hate to see any breach between us.
So my question would be....which verse here is not TRUTH. If one was all we had, would we throw it out as unprofitable or untrue? Isn't God able to keep His word holy?
1 Timothy 1:4YLT
4 nor to give heed to fables and endless genealogies, that cause questions rather than the building up of God that is in faith: --
1 Timothy 1:4ESV
4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship[a] from God that is by faith.
1 Timothy 1:4RSV
4 nor to occupy themselves with myths and endless genealogies which promote speculations rather than the divine training[a] that is in faith;
Is God's word inspired as it pertains to only the originals? John W made it pretty clear that can't be the case. Does God's word lose it's inspiration after passing through the hands of the translators, as the Cobra poster would have us believe? I'm not buying it.
My belief is that God is more than able to bring His word all the way through from the moment it came forth from the Holy Spirit until it reaches the intended target. Not just the ear of the hearer, but the very heart of man.
This verse from Timothy should be a rebuke to every believer to embrace the body ministry because we each are shown great truths from God's Holy Scripture. John W, Dan P, Jerry S, AMR, Tam, and so many others on this forum have participated in the body ministry. I hate to see any breach between us.
Hi glorydaz , and as I have mentioned many times , there are many Greek words ( Koine Greek ) that are transliterated , like the Greek word BAPTISM has many English words that can be used in its translation !!
Ask a Pentecostal believer and every time he reads the Greek word BAPTISM , it means Water Baptism !!
All things do have to come to and END as I have been SMEARED and called a FRAUD , AGNOSTIC and it would just happen if I do any more OP !!
dan p
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, Dan. Don't let it get to you.
You should have seen John W tear into me a few years back. :shocked:
He's only testing your metal, and I've seen your good heart. Believe me when I say you have shown me many wonderful things, and I will not allow you to stop. Bossy, ain't I?
Look at me....I stuck it out, and I'm very happy I did. :banana:
Ignore such, DP.
2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Stand your ground - until you see otherwise - Romans 14:5.
Rom. 5: 6-8.
Hi Danoh and I have been thrown off sites for not believing in WATER BAPTISM and if I have used words like SCAMER , PUNY , AGNOSTIC I would have been BANNED forever and if I am here or not does not bother me , and he has the protection of this site , so what ?
When I look and see how many members on these 2 pages ,where have they gone ??
dan p
glorydaz
Well-known member
Not everyone is as nice as you are, Dan. I'm not....that's for darn sure. We all have our ups and downs, and still we persevere. Which is what we're called to do, isn't it?
1 Cor. 12:14-24 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
Hi glorhdaz , and in my OP , i was serious in asking , what would you do if one KJV-ONLY believer came to your assembly ?
Pastor will be talking to him today and says he is dispensational !!
We will accept him as we have had KJV-ONLY people here as well as Acts 2 , 9 13 and 28er and he has stayed away !!
I will found out Sunday , the 29th !!
dan p
glorydaz
Well-known member
Really? Are you saying this person won't come to your assembly if any other version is used there?