Yep.
ECT WHAT ACTS 2:28 REALLY MEANS !!
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
Yep.
Jesus was given all authority having fulfilled this commandment He received from God: John 10:17, 18. I suggested the reason Peter baptized in the name of Jesus was because Peter and the gang were so instructed in Matthew 18:19, 20. John the baptizer was never given this instruction; but, JTB's absence of instruction did not preempt the equal value of his baptisms. Particularly considering JTB was baptized with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. JTB had inherent authority to baptize, while none of Jesus' disciples were so miraculously conceived, or bestowed with the Holy Ghost in like manner.
Paul was figuratively speaking. It wasn't water baptism, it was Jesus' resurrection that afford us the hope of resurrection. Water baptism symbolized the watery deaths of those "sons of God" (Genesis 6;1, 2) who drowned in the flood as Peter referred to in 1Peter 3:18, 19, 20, 21, 22. By trusting in Christ's resurrection, and that Jesus' quickened Spirit went to those "sons of God" in prison; likewise we also, being "sometime disobedient" will resurrect being "born again... by the word of God" (1Peter 1:23 KJV) accompanied by the Holy Ghost while yet alive (John 14:26 KJV). Do you suggest those who are water baptized were then perfected from that moment forward in time? The Apostolic walk, with sincere respect, doesn't grant us privilege to the resurrection and eternal salvation.
I hear you about the work scene! I've gotten his pretty hard the last couple weeks... at home doing paperwork yesterday! Hang in there...
kayaker
Great question...
Isaiah's Messianic progenitor (Isaiah 65:9) hooked up with a Canaanitess wife (Genesis 38:1, 2; 1Chronicles 2:3). Judah also sired progeny via his daughter-in-law Tamar, who played the harlot (Genesis 38:24, 29, 30). The quandary in those days, and prior, was which female co-progenitor would Messiah arrive through. Those descendants were Shelanites via Judah's Canaanitess wife; and, there were the Pharzites (and Zarhites, Numbers 26:20 KJV) via Judah and his daughter-in-law, Tamar.
Those Shelanites were the circumcised progeny of Judah's forbidden marriage to a Canaanite noted in Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, corroborated by Ezra 9:1, 2, being a "great trespass" in Ezra 9:7 KJV. Those circumcised Shelanites infiltrated the Israelite Jewish synagogues proclaiming themselves as the chosen lineage through whom Messiah would arrive. It's imperative to understand they were those who instigated Jesus' crucifixion. They proclaimed they were "Abraham's seed" (John 8:33 KJV) who were never in bondage. Hence: non-Israelites. Jesus affirmed they were "Abraham's seed", but realize Abraham sired progeny via Hagar, Sarah, Keturah and concubines.
Judah's Canaanitess wife was a daughter of Shuah (Genesis 38:1, 2). Judah, no less than Isaiah's progenitor of Messiah... Judah's Canaanite father-in-law Shuah was one of "the children of Keturah" wife of Abraham (Genesis 25:1, 2, 3, 4); but, Shuah was not among the "children" of Abraham. Abraham only had two "sons" (Genesis 25:9 KJV, Galatians 4:22 KJV), and Shuah was not mentioned. So, sure... those detractors were indeed "Abraham's seed" (John 8:37 KJV), they just weren't "Abraham's children" (John 8:39 KJV). And, Abraham didn't think Judah's father-in-law Shuah was one of Abraham's children, Shuah was one of "the children of Keturah" (v. 2, Genesis 25:1, 2, 3, 4).
As we respectfully take for granted, Jesus is Messiah being a descendant of Judah and Tamar (Matthew 1:3 KJV, Luke 3:33). So, it's reasonable to assume those awaiting Messiah in those days as a descendant of Judah and his Canaanitess wife... maternal ancestress to the Shelanites... that those waiting had false hopes in an endless genealogy. Please consider evidence of what was being taught in those days, if not already abundantly circumstantial, please consider 1Timothy 1:4 KJV. Please consider Titus 3:9 KJV.
Those circumcised Shelanites usurped the lineage of Judah that would produce Messiah, or so they proclaimed. Listen to their declaration in John 8:41 KJV "We be not born of fornication..." Judah was MARRIED to his Canaanitess wife (Genesis 38:1, 2, 13). Judah's Canaanitess wife was a granddaughter of Keturah (via Keturah's son Shuah); and Abraham was MARRIED to Keturah (Genesis 25:1, 2, 3, 4).
Those circumcised Shelanites infiltrated the Israelite Jewish synagogues proclaiming they were "Abraham's seed..." who were " not born of fornication" (John 8:33 KJV, John 8:41 KJV). Through deductive reasoning, their ancestral claims via marital relations between Judah and his Canaanitess WIFE, being a granddaughter of Abraham and his WIFE was evidently taught in synagogue where Jesus' detractors came from. Those hypocrites were the non-Israelite Pharisee priests in those days. Take a listen to John 11:45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53.
So, rest assured T6... some folk did just not believe. But, those Shelanite Pharisee priests were on a mission to exalt themselves in the synagogues, and discredit Jesus. How were the lost sheep misled? By simply not believing? Then, why didn't they believe? Those OT astute Shelanite Pharisee priests had been brow beating them (analogous to Exodus 1, btw) and discounting the possibility Messiah could be a descendant of Judah and his daughter-in-law Tamar. That relationship was indeed contrary to Leviticus 18:15 KJV, Leviticus 20:12 KJV, Leviticus 21:7, 9, 13, 14. So, don't think for one minute that wasn't preached in the synagogues! And, rest assured that had been an ongoing scheme in the Israelite synagogues for decades prior.
And, that was the scenario of the day that John the baptizer encountered, T6. JTB KNEW who they were... Listen to HIS words in Luke 3:2, 7, 8, 9 and continuing in Luke 3:10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. I do not have explicit Scripture saying what the Pharisees taught in the synagogues; but, the picture paints a thousand words, T6.
Hope this better substantiates my claim you inquired about! Lot's of beef on the menu there... good to hear from you, friend.
kayaker
Interplanner
Well-known member
Actually, your I Tim 1 and Tit 3 references are the reason not to pay any attention to this. Your assumptions show up in your final paragraphs.
You ask 'so why didn't they believe?' I guess you don't know that sin is a spiritual crisis. It is not a genealogical misunderstanding crisis.
You are on your own. I know of absolutely no one in serious NT scholarship who boils it down to this type of misunderstanding. It is not the leaven of wickedness in the Pharisees, that's for sure. It's not their demanding signs. It's not their wickedness and adultery addressed several times. Those are completely illustrated by other things, not this strained genealogical mix up, which misses the whole point of Gal 3-4 and Rom 4 & 9 about the confusion about the seed and offspring, etc. That's why it is not in that discussion at all.
LOL! Ignorance generates a spiritual crisis. Jesus was not a descendant of 'endless genealogies,' IP. The NT even BEGAN with the "generations of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham" (Matthew 1:1 KJV). And, Matthew continued with Jesus being a descendant of Isaiah's Messianic progenitor and his daughter-in-law, Tamar (Matthew 1:3 KJV). It's no discussion at all to you, because you haven't figured out that Messiah couldn't be a Shelanite descendant (Numbers 26:20) of Judah and his Canaanitess wife, LOL! That would be an "endless genealogy", agreed? Or, perhaps another messiah will arrive through that genealogy?
Sure I'm on my own... I don't subscribe to the ancestral ignorance of the folk you apparently run with, LOL! Jesus' arrival generation was even prophesied in the OT in Genesis 4:24 KJV. "Seventy and sevenfold" referred to the generations of God's Messiah counting from God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3... and so forth from Luke 3:38 through Luke 3:23. Count 'em up IP, and count yourself somewhat illuminated that the promise of God's Messiah was the 77th inclusive generation from Almighty God! So... count your blessings, and get over the notion Jesus was God's sperm of the moment progeny...
kayaker
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Interplanner
Well-known member
It does have a genealogy that has skips in it.
You apparently don't know how to read English. The 'endless genealogy' dispute was not that the genealogy was endless but that the DISPUTING was, which is like talking to you. I don't know why you spend time on it, it is so off-base. What does it have to do with Rom 3:21-31 or Acts 13's sermon's main point that the resurrection is the fulfillment of everything promised to the fathers? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Our Messiah was modeled after Melchizedek who was "without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning or days or end of life, like the Son of God." Heb 7. Good luck with that one. I'm sure you realize that there was a physical genealogy but the writer is saying IT DOESN'T MATTER.
You apparently don't know how to read English. The 'endless genealogy' dispute was not that the genealogy was endless but that the DISPUTING was, which is like talking to you. I don't know why you spend time on it, it is so off-base. What does it have to do with Rom 3:21-31 or Acts 13's sermon's main point that the resurrection is the fulfillment of everything promised to the fathers? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Our Messiah was modeled after Melchizedek who was "without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning or days or end of life, like the Son of God." Heb 7. Good luck with that one. I'm sure you realize that there was a physical genealogy but the writer is saying IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Hi and I asked for the verses where this spoken to the Body of Christ !!
So , stop BLOVIATING !!
DAN P
It amazes me how hard you work to tell us what the bible "REALLY MEANS!" instead of what it plainly says.
/QUOTE]
hI , So start with Eph 3:9 , if you can ?
dan p
Well it does not matter Now, but it did then.
In flesh types it does matter for teaching spiritual things, as well as a point of law then.
LA
iamaberean
New member
Acts 2:38 was the first message the Apostles preached to the lost. Of course it was to the Jews first, but later on in Acts the same was preached to the Gentiles.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
A Presbyterian and a Reformed Baptist are having a discussion about immersion vs. affusion.
The Presby asks, "If I'm standing with my feet in the water, is that a valid baptism?"
The RB says, "No, that's not a valid baptism."
The Presby asks, "What about if I'm knee deep in water?"
The RB responds, "No, of course not."
The Presby continues, "Ok, how about if I'm standing in water up to my shoulders, is that a valid baptism?"
RB: "Absolutely not."
The Presby says, "What if I'm underwater, almost completely, with just the crown of my head sticking up from the water, is that valid baptism?"
The RB says, "No, it is not valid baptism unless the top of the head is under water."
The Presby responds, "So, you're saying that water on the top of the head makes the baptism a valid baptism?"
The RB says, "Of course!"
The Presby exclaims, "That's all we're saying, too!"
The Presby asks, "If I'm standing with my feet in the water, is that a valid baptism?"
The RB says, "No, that's not a valid baptism."
The Presby asks, "What about if I'm knee deep in water?"
The RB responds, "No, of course not."
The Presby continues, "Ok, how about if I'm standing in water up to my shoulders, is that a valid baptism?"
RB: "Absolutely not."
The Presby says, "What if I'm underwater, almost completely, with just the crown of my head sticking up from the water, is that valid baptism?"
The RB says, "No, it is not valid baptism unless the top of the head is under water."
The Presby responds, "So, you're saying that water on the top of the head makes the baptism a valid baptism?"
The RB says, "Of course!"
The Presby exclaims, "That's all we're saying, too!"
Hi and it reminds me of 2 Peter 3:21 and the ONE'S that were Baptized all Drowned and only 8 souls were saved !!
Looks like a DRY Baptism , does it not !!
dan p
dan p
Someone said no Baptism cause Jesus came in 70ad. How dry is that?
Hi amd that RUMOR is CIRCULATING just like Jesus came in 70 AD or like the Resurrection has already come or that the EKKLESIA will go through the Great Tribulation !!
dan p
Hi and it is poison for the Un-initiated , so you are right on , DO NOT BELIEVE that Per-Tri , Per- Mill and the Millennium as they are WORTHLESS to Low Informational bible students !!
If it is NONSENSE that Rev20:5 is just not in their and the Day of Christ , the RAPYURE / DEPARTURE OF THE B O C OBVIOUS IS wrong , so you are batting 100 % , what a guy !!
And in Acts 3:28 , where it says " YE SHALL RECIEVE THE Gift " is in the FUTURE TENSE , why is that . because those gift of thre Holy Spirit will be FULFILLED in the Great Tribulation , FORGOT you do not believe that !!
dan p
They received the gift 2000 years ago, and was begun the Church.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Act 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
2Th 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
LA
God's Truth
New member
People from all nations read what Peter, and the other Jewish Apotles to the Lamb wrote. People from all over the world to this day are getting saved because of what the Jewish Apostles wrote about Jesus.
There isn't going to be another way for people to be saved later.