Turning The Bible Into An Idol

[ok doser]

The Apostles Wrote Everything Down As It Happened

your an idiot

 

[Squeaky]

your an idiot

I said
lolololol Your back on the job.

 

[RealityJerk]

I said
The Apostles Wrote Everything Down As It Happened

[Jhn 21:24-25
24 This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true.
25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
[Gal 1:15-19
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called [me] through His grace,
16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those [who were] apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.
19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother.
[2Ti 4:13
13 Bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas when you come--and the books, especially the parchments.

xxx The disciples wrote everything down as it happened. They wrote it on parchments, and books. They had the old testament books.

There is no evidence that the apostles were writing anything down while Jesus was alive. More, citing an unknown writer, claiming that the apostle John wrote the gospel that bears his name and is attributed to him by the church, doesn't objectively prove that John wrote that gospel. It doesn't prove he wrote it, nor does it prove that this gospel is the infallible word of God. But what's your point? I stated that Christians didn't have a New Testament bible in the first or second century, actually they didn't have a New Testament with 27 books until the 4th century.

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative. Again, there was no "infallible" New Testament in the first or second century.

Here is a very interesting study on the reformers and "biblical inerrancy":

https://postbarthian.com/2017/03/05...biblical-inerrancy-martin-luther-john-calvin/

 

[john w]

There was no new testament book in the first or second century.

You made that up, clueless one.


Romans 9:17 KJV For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Exodus 9 KJVX
16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Galatians 4:30 KJV Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.


Genesis 21:10 KJV Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

 

[john w]

If a spirit is telling you that the creator is a woman, with 50 children, or whatever nonsense you mentioned, then it's obviously not the Holy Spirit.

Why, deceiver, because you say so? Prove that the creator is not a woman, as I have asked you. Go ahead. My "faith," and the Holy Spirit says so. You taught me that.

Go ahead.


You won't.


You wicked charlatan.

 

[john w]

. There is no way to know if a book is God's word, apart from a subjective, miraculous process, led by the spirit of God. You claim God guided you or someone else to identify what books are and aren't God's word, I claim your assumption that there is such a book, is groundless.

There you go, TOL. This deceiver, on record, asserts that truth is subjective.

Try this one, you pawn of the devil:The spirit of God tells me Allah is God, and Sponge Bob is Paul reincarnated.


Prove that I am wrong.


Go ahead.

 

[john w]

There was no new testament book in the first or second century. There was no Christian bookstore, no Amazon.com, no where to buy your bible, because none of that existed 2000 years ago. The sayings of Christ, all of his works, and the message of the gospel, were past orally. Oral tradition. But that isn't enough, because if all that is transmitted is a lie, then there would be no fruit. No new birth experience, no real encounter with the Holy Spirit, no genuine spiritual power, no spiritual gifts, no miracles..etc. No bible, no book, is required to validate the reality of Christ. If you are truly born again, you would know that.

If a spirit is telling you that the creator is a woman, with 50 children, or whatever nonsense you mentioned, then it's obviously not the Holy Spirit.

If it makes you feel better to believe that God authored a specific collection of books, and every word written in those books is God's word, then believe that. But that belief is it self subjective. There is no way to know if a book is God's word, apart from a subjective, miraculous process, led by the spirit of God. You claim God guided you or someone else to identify what books are and aren't God's word, I claim your assumption that there is such a book, is groundless.

As asked: Tell all of TOL, how you/we/anyone would know of this gospel you reference, w/o the book, by which it is revealed. Go ahead. Let me guess:Your expounding what it is, your "instruction and illustrating" the gospel is the objective truth of what this gospel is, right, Rummy?

Who says? You are infallible, have a "corner" on objective truth, through your Holy Spirit? Says who?

 

[john w]

There was no new testament book in the first or second century. There was no Christian bookstore, no Amazon.com, no where to buy your bible, because none of that existed 2000 years ago. The sayings of Christ, all of his works, and the message of the gospel, were past orally. Oral tradition. But that isn't enough, because if all that is transmitted is a lie, then there would be no fruit. No new birth experience, no real encounter with the Holy Spirit, no genuine spiritual power, no spiritual gifts, no miracles..etc. No bible, no book, is required to validate the reality of Christ. If you are truly born again, you would know that.

If a spirit is telling you that the creator is a woman, with 50 children, or whatever nonsense you mentioned, then it's obviously not the Holy Spirit.

If it makes you feel better to believe that God authored a specific collection of books, and every word written in those books is God's word, then believe that. But that belief is it self subjective. There is no way to know if a book is God's word, apart from a subjective, miraculous process, led by the spirit of God. You claim God guided you or someone else to identify what books are and aren't God's word, I claim your assumption that there is such a book, is groundless.

Non responsive:


Again-Someone to you: My faith, the Holy Spirit, tells me God is a woman, has 56 sons, and lives on the moon. My faith/The Holy Spirit tells me that.


Agreed? If not, tell me why this person'e "faith" is wrong, this person's Holy Spirit is wrong, and yours/others' faith/Holy Spirit is correct, and that God is not a woman.........................


Let me guess: "Cuz" you say so, and your Holy Spirit is true,your faith tells you the truth, mine is not, right, rummy?

 

[john w]

There was no new testament book in the first or second century. There was no Christian bookstore, no Amazon.com, no where to buy your bible, because none of that existed 2000 years ago. The sayings of Christ, all of his works, and the message of the gospel, were past orally. Oral tradition. But that isn't enough, because if all that is transmitted is a lie, then there would be no fruit. No new birth experience, no real encounter with the Holy Spirit, no genuine spiritual power, no spiritual gifts, no miracles..etc. No bible, no book, is required to validate the reality of Christ. If you are truly born again, you would know that.

If a spirit is telling you that the creator is a woman, with 50 children, or whatever nonsense you mentioned, then it's obviously not the Holy Spirit.

If it makes you feel better to believe that God authored a specific collection of books, and every word written in those books is God's word, then believe that. But that belief is it self subjective. There is no way to know if a book is God's word, apart from a subjective, miraculous process, led by the spirit of God. You claim God guided you or someone else to identify what books are and aren't God's word, I claim your assumption that there is such a book, is groundless.

Someone to you: My faith, the Holy Spirit says God is a woman.


Prove that is not true.

 

[john w]

If it makes you feel better to believe that God authored a specific collection of books, and every word written in those books is God's word, then believe that. But that belief is it self subjective.

Catch that, TOL audience? The deceiver cannot even distinguish the term "belief," from objective truth, as he mutters that my "belief is...subjective."


Sober up, clown.TOL laughs at your mysticism, clown act.

 

[2003cobra]

Christians and Jews have turned their book/s into an idol. It's convenient to encapsulate God's will and work, His truth in a book. If it's embodied in a book that is "infallible", then we can pretend to interpret that infallible, inerrant book, "correctly" (infallibly), forcing God within the confines of our agenda, our program. God and whatever is left of our relationship with him becomes safe and controllable. Moreover, it doesn't take much faith, when you have everything, all of the answers, to every question you'll ever have about life, neatly packaged in a book. These people seek "Absolute Certainty", the "Word Of God", a sack full of answers, that they can hang over their shoulders, providing them with the false assurance that they have it all figured out. They got God figured out. They don't really need faith, or to pursue God in the Holy Spirit, because they have a book they can read and interpret for themselves.

Unfortunately many of these "believers" have never had a personal encounter with the Living God. They don't know what it is to be Born Again and filled with the Spirit of Jesus Christ (The True Word Of God). It takes courage to be a disciple of Messiah, a member of His royal family, but unfortunately there's a considerable number of people who aren't content with faith, with pursuing God in the Spirit, in the same way the ancient patriarchs did. They claim their approved collection of writings is the "Infallible Word Of God" and then create a whole new religion based upon their skewed understanding of what and who God's Word really is (It's actually a person, not a book. Jesus is real, whether the book admits it or not. If every book in the world was burned to ashes, Christ would still be King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The Savior and Author of Life).

Those who are born again, born from above, in the Spirit of the Living God, know that the true Word of God, The Way, The Truth and The Life, is not a piece of literature but the ever living one, who quickens the soul of men and women, through a divinely ordained and initiated process. A miracle that occurs when the gospel of Christ is preached and people hear it. Convicted of their sins, their eyes open and they see themselves and the world for what it truly is. Death and destruction. God can also use a book to bring people to salvation, among other tools, but to claim that a book is the infallible word of God amounts to a very skewed understanding of what or perhaps I should say, WHO God's Word is.

Holy writings that exalt the truth and guide men and women to Christ, are profitable for instruction and illustrating the gospel. But it does not replace a genuine relationship with the Living God. If you are dead in your sins, if you have never had that personal encounter with Jesus Christ, becoming a new creation in Him, the bible can kill you. It can increase your arrogance and delusion, until you are exposed as a vessel, reserved for God's wrath. The bible is profitable and a blessing to the children of God, it is often a cruel judge and court jester to the wicked.

Yes, the deification of the Bible is wrong, as are the man-made claims of inerrancy and infallibility.

One member here posted that he worships the Bible!

And people who want to read “Bible” every time they see the term “Word of God” in scripture get really offended when it is pointed out that the terms are not interchangeable.

May God bless you.

 

[2003cobra]

There was no new testament book in the first or second century. There was no Christian bookstore, no Amazon.com, no where to buy your bible, because none of that existed 2000 years ago. The sayings of Christ, all of his works, and the message of the gospel, were past orally. Oral tradition. But that isn't enough, because if all that is transmitted is a lie, then there would be no fruit. No new birth experience, no real encounter with the Holy Spirit, no genuine spiritual power, no spiritual gifts, no miracles..etc. No bible, no book, is required to validate the reality of Christ. If you are truly born again, you would know that.

If a spirit is telling you that the creator is a woman, with 50 children, or whatever nonsense you mentioned, then it's obviously not the Holy Spirit.

If it makes you feel better to believe that God authored a specific collection of books, and every word written in those books is God's word, then believe that. But that belief is it self subjective. There is no way to know if a book is God's word, apart from a subjective, miraculous process, led by the spirit of God. You claim God guided you or someone else to identify what books are and aren't God's word, I claim your assumption that there is such a book, is groundless.

And the people who believe they have the perfect Bible typically have little or no understanding of the history of the canon.

 

[nikolai_42]

Christians and Jews have turned their book/s into an idol. It's convenient to encapsulate God's will and work, His truth in a book. If it's embodied in a book that is "infallible", then we can pretend to interpret that infallible, inerrant book, "correctly" (infallibly), forcing God within the confines of our agenda, our program. God and whatever is left of our relationship with him becomes safe and controllable. Moreover, it doesn't take much faith, when you have everything, all of the answers, to every question you'll ever have about life, neatly packaged in a book. These people seek "Absolute Certainty", the "Word Of God", a sack full of answers, that they can hang over their shoulders, providing them with the false assurance that they have it all figured out. They got God figured out. They don't really need faith, or to pursue God in the Holy Spirit, because they have a book they can read and interpret for themselves.

Unfortunately many of these "believers" have never had a personal encounter with the Living God. They don't know what it is to be Born Again and filled with the Spirit of Jesus Christ (The True Word Of God). It takes courage to be a disciple of Messiah, a member of His royal family, but unfortunately there's a considerable number of people who aren't content with faith, with pursuing God in the Spirit, in the same way the ancient patriarchs did. They claim their approved collection of writings is the "Infallible Word Of God" and then create a whole new religion based upon their skewed understanding of what and who God's Word really is (It's actually a person, not a book. Jesus is real, whether the book admits it or not. If every book in the world was burned to ashes, Christ would still be King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The Savior and Author of Life).

Those who are born again, born from above, in the Spirit of the Living God, know that the true Word of God, The Way, The Truth and The Life, is not a piece of literature but the ever living one, who quickens the soul of men and women, through a divinely ordained and initiated process. A miracle that occurs when the gospel of Christ is preached and people hear it. Convicted of their sins, their eyes open and they see themselves and the world for what it truly is. Death and destruction. God can also use a book to bring people to salvation, among other tools, but to claim that a book is the infallible word of God amounts to a very skewed understanding of what or perhaps I should say, WHO God's Word is.

Holy writings that exalt the truth and guide men and women to Christ, are profitable for instruction and illustrating the gospel. But it does not replace a genuine relationship with the Living God. If you are dead in your sins, if you have never had that personal encounter with Jesus Christ, becoming a new creation in Him, the bible can kill you. It can increase your arrogance and delusion, until you are exposed as a vessel, reserved for God's wrath. The bible is profitable and a blessing to the children of God, it is often a cruel judge and court jester to the wicked.

I read your post with some interest as I know that position precisely. Allow me to make a few short comments.

1. The charge of bibliolatry is a dangerous one to make. It is often made by those that "despise dominion" and don't want to be subject to some external regulation. And regardless of why the charge is made, the only time one can make a charge of bibliolatry (which, I agree, has been made by notables such as Luther) is in specific instances in which what is written is clearly wrested from context and/or meaning to support an individual's end. A little more pertinent, I would say, is that there are those who know not God but who deign to interpret the scriptures. They do so often to the destruction of many (including themselves) and so it is that the scriptures warn of the grave condition of those that (especially knowingly) teach that which is untrue.

2. The question of objectivity and subjectivity is a massive one and one which you have to deal with if you are going to make these kinds of statements. While it is true that the reality of a life in Christ is one of being led by the Spirit of God - being indwelt by the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8) - to sever the scriptures from the life of the believer (which you have effectively done) is dangerous at best and destructive at worst. To make these claims you either make yourself a prophet or you set yourself up as judge of the scriptures. I John 2:27 certainly makes the claim that we are informed by the Spirit of God, but in making a doctrine out of whether or not the scriptures are essential for life, you necessarily teach that all those that so deem can call themselves believers and follow any unction they wish. After all, you have justified that their own leadings are as good as the very words of God. The test, then, is subjective. But the bible is an objective rendering of what was passed down by "holy men of old" who spake as the Spirit gave them utterance. That there may be errors in transcription is true, but if we cannot trust that God will do as He promised and uphold His own word (Isaiah 55:11), then there is no reason to hold to scripture at all. And each man is left to his own sense of what he believes the Spirit of God is. Since we have an objective measure of truth (the scriptures) it can be assessed openly and objectively. Each man's inner voice is not subject to the same scrutiny and is far less reliable than the words of God. Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses let all things be established. God does not rely on subjective notions to establish His words. If the scriptures can be proven false, then they should be discarded. But they remain an objective check against man's subjective tendencies. So if we are not supposed to go beyond what is written (and that is a NT scripture -- I Cor 4:6!), then we must accord the scriptures a place of recognition as the recorded words of God. There may or may not be errors, but if they impact the truth of the bible, then we can have no confidence in any of it (since God promised to uphold it in these scriptures), and everyone should just do what he believes to be right. The letter cannot save - and indeed kills (2 Cor 3:6) but the Spirit and the Word agree (I Thess 1:5). God is not a God of confusion. So if scripture is true, by coming against it, you do (by extension) bring into question the very inspiration of God (Hebrews 4:12).

3. The fact that many have not encountered the Risen Christ does nothing to diminish the importance of the scriptures as inerrant. The problem is not with the letter, but with the heart. The reason the bible is a cruel court jester to the wicked is its very truth.


EDIT : I forgot to add this. You posted something about the Reformers being against inerrancy and how Luther excluded certain books from the canon. Note that he did not call them uninspired. And Luther's arguably most famous quote relies on the scriptures over and against Popes and councils. You have to remember what they were coming out of. The scriptures were the very light that exposed the corruption of the established church of the day. So to try and claim the Reformers argued against the infallibility of the scriptures is (at best) only telling a part of the story.

 

[oatmeal]

The Bible is Gods word. God is the sole author of all Gods word.

It is God talking communicating with those who want to believe and those who want to believe more