Torah and are you Torah observant?

[Jacob]

What do you mean "no?"

Paul wrote to Corinthian Gentiles who believed in the Lord Jesus, he wrote to them about the Eucharist, about partaking of the bread and the wine of communion.

Was Paul teaching the Gentiles in Corinth to observe Passover? Was that what he meant in the chapter 11 passage I quoted?

In Luke, the Lord says the same thing as Paul records Him saying in 1st Corinthians, and as Matthew and Mark record in their accounts, with very little variation. In all cases the Lord talks as if He wants what He's modeling to be repeated in the future. So did He change the observance of Passover? Or did He begin something new?

Do you think that the Lord Jesus is our Passover?

Shalom.

Passover is in Torah. I celebrate Passover each year, the last four years in a row and more. It is for the nation of Israel.

We do not celebrate anything called the Eucharist. I celebrated The Lord's Supper growing up, and it is both not the Eucharist and not Passover.

I wanted to draw your attention to Luke's account, as it is Passover with more than one cup. When we celebrate Passover there are four cups.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Nihilo]

The only reason you play judge at this point is to make yourself feel good about yourself and justify yourself because you have no clue what the Torah actually says or means.

I'm only playing judge as a judge who's biased toward you. There will never be a time on this earth when people won't sin, we will always sin until Glory, that is a given.

Let's be honest here: that is the only reason you are blowing up this thread, is it not?

This is the point of the thread, and besides, Jacob's threads don't usually do much.

The unfortunate truth is that this is true because you really have no clue what the Messiah teaches either; for if you did, you would not judge someone else and especially not when it comes to Torah observance.

I'm not judging you, I'm telling you like it is, just so someone tells you, you won't be able to say you've never had anybody tell you you're wrong about Torah observance. And I do know what the Master teaches because I listen to Him, and to those that He personally left in charge of His Church, the Apostles, and to those the Apostles left in charge (like Timothy and Titus), the bishops. The college of bishops today teaches infallibly what the Lord would have us believe and teach ourselves.

It is personal and individual, what I do or do not do as far as my understanding of Torah is not your business unless I decide to share and explain something, especially when it comes to Torah observance; you have your own "house", and how you treat the "members" of your own "household" is between you and your Creator, (and He is their Avenger, for you are no more your own when you enter into the faith, just as Paul has forewarned you).

I know that, and I engage you knowing that.

Your ignorance has led you to engage yourself in buffoonery; and by playing judge concerning my observance, (especially when you do not know anything about me), you have now placed yourself under the law, and that is for the simple fact that you have brazenly ignored the commandments of the Master in the Gospel accounts where he tells you not to judge, lest you be judged, (not to mention what he says in Matthew 5:17,18,19).

I am aware of what He taught, and I engage you knowing that also. Judgment is only temporally for the Church, not eternal, as the eternal penalty was carried for her when the Lord died for her sins (1Co15:3KJV).

 

[Nihilo]

Passover is in Torah. I celebrate Passover each year, the last four years in a row and more. It is for the nation of Israel.

But Passover has been eternally fulfilled Jacob, on the cross.

The Lord's Supper

He says, "This do in remembrance of Me."

I wanted to draw your attention to Luke's account, as it is Passover with more than one cup. When we celebrate Passover there are four cups.

I know.

 

[Jacob]

But Passover has been eternally fulfilled Jacob, on the cross.
He says, "This do in remembrance of Me."
I know.

Christ our Passover has been sacrificed. Celebrate the feast (of Unleavened Bread) with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Is it do this in remembrance of me, something about as often as you do this or as often as you eat of it?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

I must confess I don't understand all this, in the least, in terms of Christianity. I can understand most "Christian" cults, who have their false prophets they love, with doctrines they've invented to replace sound doctrine, understand people trapped in that, all brainwashed and scripture challenged, egos seduced they're of some special chosen few. And, of course, being Jewish is understandable, people of that lineage, the strongholds of upbringing and tradition, the culture, the society that shuns Jesus Christ as not the Messiah. Sort of hard to understand, given the plethora of prophecies the Lord Jesus fulfilled, but can understand it, anyway, the obscurity of the suffering Messiah by Jews who, even in the times of the Lord Jesus, expected a King that would commence to reign.

What I can't understand is somebody who purports to be a Christian, or claims to have been a Christian, Gentiles now saying they're a Jew of only the first five books of the Bible, in essence, distilled, what a lot of these people bottom line are saying is their religion. These Gentiles who really don't know Judaism from Adam who think they're keeping the law with their Cliff Notes versions of Judaism: what is that? Most of all, what is the attraction of going back to the bondage of what Paul himself, a Jew of Jews, said are the weak and beggarly elements? You supposedly have seen the light, then desire to crawl back into the shadows? This makes no sense.

I think these Hebrew Roots sorts, in all their flavors, are frauds and tares, at best highly deluded, irrational people of what amounts to a weird, false religion, which is, decidely, textbook cult crapola. There is no discussion it's not New Testament Christianity in any way, shape or form, rather legalistic, cermonial false religion on steroids, bastardized Judaism. I have great difficulty taking you faux Jews and your weird religion seriously, at all. It verges on the humorous, all one can say, this "I am a Torah with limbs" stuff, that somehow thinks God is impressed by hitting a few Levitical high points. Insanity. You don't even know how to keep the whole law and are, most assuredly, not doing so, not a one of you.

 

[Nihilo]

Christ our Passover has been sacrificed. Celebrate the feast (of Unleavened Bread) with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Is it do this in remembrance of me, something about as often as you do this or as often as you eat of it?

Yes. Many Catholic Church parishes have Mass every day of the week, along with multiple times on every weekend, so if one is so inclined and able, we can celebrate the Eucharist or Lord's Supper every day, in remembrance of Him.

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

Galatians 5

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
...
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 4

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Colossians 2

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[Jacob]

I must confess I don't understand all this, in the least, in terms of Christianity. I can understand most "Christian" cults, who have their false prophets they love, with doctrines they've invented to replace sound doctrine, understand people trapped in that, all brainwashed and scripture challenged, egos seduced they're of some special chosen few. And, of course, being Jewish is understandable, people of that lineage, the strongholds of upbringing and tradition, the culture, the society that shuns Jesus Christ as not the Messiah. Sort of hard to understand, given the plethora of prophecies the Lord Jesus fulfilled, but can understand it, anyway, the obscurity of the suffering Messiah by Jews who, even in the times of the Lord Jesus, expected a King that would commence to reign.

What I can't understand is somebody who purports to be a Christian, or claims to have been a Christian, Gentiles now saying they're a Jew of only the first five books of the Bible, in essence, distilled, what a lot of these people bottom line are saying is their religion. These Gentiles who really don't know Judaism from Adam who think they're keeping the law with their Cliff Notes versions of Judaism: what is that? Most of all, what is the attraction of going back to the bondage of what Paul himself, a Jew of Jews, said are the weak and beggarly elements? You supposedly have seen the light, then desire to crawl back into the shadows? This makes no sense.

I think these Hebrew Roots sorts, in all their flavors, are frauds and tares, at best highly deluded, irrational people of what amounts to a weird, false religion, which is, decidely, textbook cult crapola. There is no discussion it's not New Testament Christianity in any way, shape or form, rather legalistic, cermonial false religion on steroids, bastardized Judaism. I have great difficulty taking you faux Jews and your weird religion seriously, at all. It verges on the humorous, all one can say, this "I am a Torah with limbs" stuff, that somehow thinks God is impressed by hitting a few Levitical high points. Insanity. You don't even know how to keep the whole law and are, most assuredly, not doing so, not a one of you.

Shalom.

Thank you for alerting me to what you are thinking. You may have intended this for all reading this thread, but I am not sure of your intended recipients.

Can I say that Christianity without the law is not Christianity? Or, is it?

The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Do you know about and understand Matthew 5:17-20?

The new covenant came in Yeshua.

In Judaism the expectation of a coming Messiah, Yeshua, is there. It is my understanding that He did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill.

I do not know where your ideas about Judaism are coming from.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

Yes. Many Catholic Church parishes have Mass every day of the week, along with multiple times on every weekend, so if one is so inclined and able, we can celebrate the Eucharist or Lord's Supper every day, in remembrance of Him.

Shalom.

No. Not the Eucharist. Did you catch that it may be referring to Passover? The Catholic Church and the Eucharist were not anything at this time.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Right Divider]

Shalom.

I read, study, and observe Torah, in the United States of America. I am a citizen of the United States of America. In that I observe Torah I am of Israel. I may or may not have Jewish blood. But I did choose to convert or become a proselyte, having already accepted Genesis through Deuteronomy and the rest of scripture as a Christian.

Do you know what the Torah says? Do you observe it?

Do you read and / or understand Torah? Do you observe it? Have you been taught what (the) Torah says? Have you been taught Torah?

It is possible to learn the Torah. It is possible to observe Torah.

May God bless your studies and whoever you have as a teacher of Torah.

Shalom.

Jacob

No, you are not.

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

I do not know where your ideas about Judaism are coming from.

Both my Judaism and Christianity come from the word of God in the Holy Bible and many things thousands of years of Judaism and Christianity agree upon, the clear word of God and confirmed by the Holy Spirit in many Christians, Christianity you falsify, even violate.

Despite your arrogant claims other people are unaware of scripture, a stupid claim you made of me, knowing nothing whatsoever of what my level of knowledge may be, you have actually shown an abysmal understanding of both Judaism and Christianity, haven’t displayed squat scholarship of any kind, a more appropriate question where your weird religion comes from, perhaps referring back to your thread on who you are, tribe-wise. Well, the answer is nobody, as you're just a fake Jew of no tribe, and, if you really knew scripture, once you actually knew and performed the whole law, and miserably failed, like 100% of all Jews throughout history but the Lord Jesus, you would realize that and a cup of coffee will get you a ticket to hellfire.

I'd also be very careful about deceiving people and spreading false religion that testifies against you, at least that's how I decidedly feel about it, having some authentic fear of God and knowing the fate of false prophecy and proselytes of false religion.

 

[Jacob]

No, you are not.

Shalom.

I know that I am but we can have this discussion if you want to or if you would like.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

Both my Judaism and Christianity come from the word of God in the Holy Bible and many things thousands of years of Judaism and Christianity agree upon, the clear word of God and confirmed by the Holy Spirit in many Christians, Christianity you falsify, even violate.

Despite your arrogant claims other people are unaware of scripture, a stupid claim you made of me, knowing nothing whatsoever of what my level of knowledge may be, you have actually shown an abysmal understanding of both Judaism and Christianity, haven’t displayed squat scholarship of any kind, a more appropriate question where your weird religion comes from, perhaps referring back to your thread on who you are, tribe-wise. Well, the answer is nobody, as you're just a fake Jew of no tribe, and, if you really knew scripture, once you actually knew and performed the whole law, and miserably failed, like 100% of all Jews throughout history but the Lord Jesus, you would realize that and a cup of coffee will get you a ticket to hellfire.

I'd also be very careful about deceiving people and spreading false religion that testifies against you, at least that's how I decidedly feel about it, having some authentic fear of God and knowing the fate of false prophecy and proselytes of false religion.

Shalom.

I can take a warning, but I feel that you simply do not know me.

I reject Christianity on two counts. The rejection of God's word in His commandments, and the preaching of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Do you observe Judaism? I may be mistaking you for someone who rails against it.

Remember Matthew 5:17-20. I accepted this as a Christian and I have no problem saying so. But I am no longer a Gentile.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Right Divider]

Shalom.

I know that I am but we can have this discussion if you want to or if you would like.

Shalom.

Jacob

You are fooling yourself.

 

[Jacob]

You are fooling yourself.

Shalom.

About what? Being Jewish? No. But what are you saying?

We should finish this conversation during the day.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Right Divider]

Shalom.

About what? Being Jewish? No. But what are you saying?

We should finish this conversation during the day.

Shalom.

Jacob

Where did you get the idea that keeping the law "makes you Israel"?

 

[Jacob]

Where did you get the idea that keeping the law "makes you Israel"?

Shalom.

The Torah was given to the nation of Israel. When you observe it you are of Israel. There are 613 Commandments in Torah.

Also, observing Passover is only for those who are of Israel. Saying this should help you to understand.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Right Divider]

Shalom.

The Torah was given to the nation of Israel. When you observe it you are of Israel. There are 613 Commandments in Torah.

Also, observing Passover is only for those who are of Israel. Saying this should help you to understand.

Shalom.

Jacob

What if God has currently set aside Israel and is doing something different?

 

[Jacob]

What if God has currently set aside Israel and is doing something different?

Shalom.

The early church was entirely Jewish and Israel is still Israel. I do not believe that you are making a correct statement.

But I believe you are not isolated in your belief. Do you have a verse or scripture? You can reevaluate your position according to scripture.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Right Divider]

Shalom.

The early church was entirely Jewish and Israel is still Israel. I do not believe that you are making a correct statement.

But I believe you are not isolated in your belief. Do you have a verse or scripture? You can reevaluate your position according to scripture.

Shalom.

Jacob

Rom 11:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead? ​

This verse shows BOTH their "casting away" and their restoration in the future.