toldailytopic: Who is really to blame for the rising price of gasoline?

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for February 7th, 2012 10:56 AM

toldailytopic: Who is really to blame for the rising price of gasoline?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

It's gonna get REALLY ugly this spring folks.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/gas-prices-spike-60-cents/story?id=15519576#.TzFX4eNSSqw

 

[MrDeets]

:idunno:

What I do know is higher prices at the pump equal job security for MrDeets!!!:banana:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

:idunno:

What I do know is higher prices at the pump equal job security for MrDeets!!!:banana:

You are in the business... so helps us out... what's the real scoop?

If government would get out of the way with all the micro-regulations wouldn't that make a dramatic difference?

 

[MrDeets]

You are in the business... so helps us out... what's the real scoop?

If government would get out of the way with all the micro-regulations wouldn't that make a dramatic difference?

Absolutely. Killing the Keystone pipeline killed TONS of jobs and tons of revenue for the US. Opening up domestic drilling or shocked encouraging it would drop prices at the pump, create TONS of jobs, and create TONS of tax dollars for uncle sam. Light Bringer has some good thoughts on this whole deal, too. He was an offshore Captain on a drilling ship or plat.

**Side note, post script, whatever- Safety is important, but it has gotten so extreme under OSHA that many of the older, more experienced hands have left the oilfield. Less experience means... more accidents.

 

[Tolken]

You are in the business... so helps us out... what's the real scoop?

If government would get out of the way with all the micro-regulations wouldn't that make a dramatic difference?

First, gas prices have hurt my business significantly so it would be great if somehow prices came down, but then it is doubtful that UPS/Fedex would consider lowering their rates anyway. More importantly with less controls in place I would not trust corporate America to be responsible. Profit drives companies not considerations for safety, the environment, workers, etc. To a large degree ethical and responsible corporate behavior is not a priority or consideration in the business world of today............

 

[chrysostom]

the democrats

 

[PureX]

Absolutely. Killing the Keystone pipeline killed TONS of jobs and tons of revenue for the US. Opening up domestic drilling or shocked encouraging it would drop prices at the pump, create TONS of jobs, and create TONS of tax dollars for uncle sam. Light Bringer has some good thoughts on this whole deal, too. He was an offshore Captain on a drilling ship or plat.

**Side note, post script, whatever- Safety is important, but it has gotten so extreme under OSHA that many of the older, more experienced hands have left the oilfield. Less experience means... more accidents.

Apparently it's not extreme enough, because it's being pretty well ignored - as in the recent Gulf disaster. I don't think anyone is against the pipeline in and of itself. I just think the oil companies have a terrible track record when it comes to making claims that they can't or won't stick to. Why on Earth should anyone believe they will build a "safe" pipeline when they haven't yet fully cleaned up the gigantic mess they just made? We're stupid, but we're not THAT stupid.

Nothing will cause the price of gasoline to drop in any dramatic way, because gasoline is a 'must have' product in our current modern society. We have to buy it and the people selling it, know it. So they're going to make us pay as high a price as they can get out of us. If we were to develop a reasonable alternative, and start using it, that would finally drive the prices back down. But we aren't going to do that because it would require a national effort and all our politicians are bought and paid for by big oil. So it'll likely stay this way for a long time.

 

[PureX]

And I can pretty much guarantee that if we build that pipeline, it won't drop the cost of gasoline at all, because availability was never the reason for the high cost. And on top of that, the tax-payer will end up paying for the thing.

 

[The Berean]

And I can pretty much guarantee that if we build that pipeline, it won't drop the cost of gasoline at all, because availability was never the reason for the high cost. And on top of that, the tax-payer will end up paying for the thing.

Don't the oil cartels control the price of crude oil which basically drives gas prices? :idunno:

 

[PureX]

Don't the oil cartels control the price of crude oil which basically drives gas prices? :idunno:

No. What drives up the price is our having to buy gasoline and heating oil. As long as we have to have it, the oil companies will charge as much as they can get away with for it.

Haven't you noticed that the price always seems to stay just below the point where it would seriously effect the economy if they raised it higher? It's always at or near the maximum that we can tolerate. And that's exactly where it will stay until we finally stop needing to buy it.

 

[MrDeets]

Apparently it's not extreme enough, because it's being pretty well ignored - as in the recent Gulf disaster. I don't think anyone is against the pipeline in and of itself. I just think the oil companies have a terrible track record when it comes to making claims that they can't or won't stick to. Why on Earth should anyone believe they will build a "safe" pipeline when they haven't yet fully cleaned up the gigantic mess they just made? We're stupid, but we're not THAT stupid.

Nothing will cause the price of gasoline to drop in any dramatic way, because gasoline is a 'must have' product in our current modern society. We have to buy it and the people selling it, know it. So they're going to make us pay as high a price as they can get out of us. If we were to develop a reasonable alternative, and start using it, that would finally drive the prices back down. But we aren't going to do that because it would require a national effort and all our politicians are bought and paid for by big oil. So it'll likely stay this way for a long time.

2.8 Billion barrels a year over 23 years... 64 billion barrels of American production. We'll start with this as an average. The two largest spills on/in/around the US were oviously the DWH and EV for a grand total of 5.5 million barrels(depending on your source), or .0000858% of the oil produced in that time. I will even spot you a hundred million barrels spilled for fun... 105.5 million barrels is .0016%. Can you show me any chemical production/sales/handling company in the universe with such a low spill percentage over a such a large period of time??? Can anyone tell me if the exxon valdez was carrying american oil from one place to another or IMPORTING oil from somewhere else??

People that don't trust big oil don't trust it because they rely on the media to feed them their info. Put some numbers to paper. Yes the EV and the DWH were awful events that harmed lots of folks and furry little animals, but it happens. Until there is a viable replacement, which there is not, we need oil. The GOOBERMENT could make it WAY cheaper for the consumer, but they won't.

 

[MrDeets]

No. What drives up the price is our having to buy gasoline and heating oil. As long as we have to have it, the oil companies will charge as much as they can get away with for it.

Will you outline for me, without the use of google or any internet search engine the basic process to drill, produce and refine oil, include a basic run down of the number of jobs required to accomplish each part of the process, please?

 

[MrDeets]

Here's a chart outlining profit margins... its from last year, done by YahooFinance


Rank, Industry, Net Profit Margin


1 Closed-End Fund - Equity 81%
2 Publishing - Periodicals 51.7
3 Silver 44.7
4 Closed-End Fund - Foreign 38.3
5 REIT - Diversified 36
6 Copper 24
7 Internet Information Providers 23.8
8 Application Software 22.7
9 Foreign Utilities 20.5
10 Industrial Metals and Minerals 20.1
11 Gold 20.1
12 Cigarettes 19.8
13 Semiconductor - Broad Line 19.2
14 REIT - Healthcare Facilities 19.1
15 Lumber, Wood Production 17.7
16 Semiconductor - Integrated Circuits 17.6
17 Diversified Investments 17.5
18 Healthcare Information Services 16.6
19 Beverages - Brewers 16.5
20 Regional - Southwest Banks 16.4
21 Semiconductor- Memory Chips 16.1
22 Publishing - Books 16.1
23 Networking and Communication Devices 15.7
24 Drug Manufacturers - Major 15.4
25 Long Distance Carriers 15.2
26 Railroads 15
27 Beverages - Wineries and Distillers 14.9
28 Nonmetallic Mineral Mining 14.6
29 Beverages - Soft Drinks 14.3
30 Wireless Communications 14.1
31 Semiconductor Equipment and Materials 14.1
32 Personal Products 13.9
33 Personal Computers 13.9
34 Medical Instruments and Supplies 13.9
35 Drug Manufacturers - Other 13.6
36 Security Software and Services 13.2
37 Property and Casualty Insurance 13.2
38 Agricultural Chemicals 13
39 Specialty Chemicals 12.7
40 REIT - Residential 12.7
41 Biotechnology 12.7
42 Medical Appliances & Equipment 12.6
43 Technical and System Software 12.5
44 Mortgage Investment 12.5
45 Entertainment - Diversified 12.5
46 Air Services, Other 12.4
47 Diversified Electronics 11.9
48 Processed and Packaged Goods 11.5
49 Foreign Regional Banks 11.5
50 Water Utilities 10.9
51 Semiconductor - Specialized 10.5
52 Money Center Banks 10.5
53 Consumer Services 10.5
54 Broadcasting - TV 10.5
55 Regional - Midwest Banks 10.4
56 Toys and Games 10.1
57 Textile - Apparel Footwear 10.1
58 Restaurants 10
59 Investment Brokerage - National 10
60 Oil and Gas Drilling and Exploration 9.9
61 Paper and Paper Products 9.8
62 Foreign Money Center Banks 9.8
63 Regional - Northeast Banks 9.7
64 Business Software and Services 9.7
65 Synthetics 9.5
66 Scientific and Technical Instruments 9.5
67 Data Storage Devices 9.5
68 Internet Software and Services 9.4
69 CATV Systems 9.3
70 Specialty Eateries 9.2
71 Telecom Services - Domestic 9.1
72 Specialized Health Services 9
73 Diversified Computer Systems 9
74 Savings and Loans 8.9
75 Internet Service Providers 8.9
76 Conglomerates 8.8
77 Research Services 8.7
78 Diversified Machinery 8.7
79 Education and Training Services 8.4
80 Independent Oil and Gas 8.3
81 Industrial Equipment and Components 8.2
82 General Entertainment 8.2
83 Diversified Utilities 8.1
84 Asset Management 8.1
85 Accident and Health Insurance 8.1
86 Information and Delivery Services 8
87 Gas Utilities 8
88 Business Services 8
89 Telecom Services - Foreign 7.9
90 Oil and Gas Equipment and Services 7.9
91 Insurance Brokers 7.8
92 Cleaning Products 7.8
93 Steel and Iron 7.7
94 Drug Related Products 7.7
95 Home Furnishing Stores 7.6
96 Diagnostic Substances 7.6
97 Auto Parts Stores 7.3
98 Industrial Electrical Equipment 7.2
99 Waste Management 7
100 Confectioners 7
101 Aerospace/Defense - Major Diversified 7
102 Publishing - Newspapers 6.9
103 Jewelry Stores 6.9
104 Home Health Care 6.9
105 Computer Based Systems 6.9
106 Pollution & Treatment Controls 6.8
107 Lodging 6.8
108 Communication Equipment 6.7
109 Aerospace/Defense Products & Services 6.6
110 Sporting Activities 6.5
111 Packaging & Containers 6.5
112 Catalog & Mail Order Houses 6.5
113 Drugs - Generic 6.3
114 Major Integrated Oil and Gas 6.2


Those big, evil oil companies sure are greedy jerks. Sheesh.

 

[Tolken]

Here's a chart outlining profit margins...

Correct me if I'm mistaken but the figures are somewhat skewed by the use of percent profit. In actuality oil companies profits, in terms of simple dollar amount, exceeds most industries listed. What I've read puts profits over the past decade at 1 trillion, and since 2007 they have been increasing at a higher rate. I believe the Wal-mart philosophy of less profit margins and more sales ultimately equal greater total profit.

Then again why are cereal prices so high?

 

[PureX]

From the first web site that popped up in a search of; "american oil company profits" ...

Since George Bush became President in 2001, the top five oil companies in the United States have recorded profits of $464 billion through the first quarter of 2007:

ExxonMobil: $158.5 billion
Shell: $108.5 billion
BP: $89.2 billion
ChevronTexaco: $60.9 billion
ConocoPhillips: $46.9 billion

Many industry analysts claim that rising demand in China and India are the big reasons why the price of oil exceeds $60 a barrel. However, they neglect to mention the role U.S. demand plays in setting global crude oil prices. Americans consume 25% of the world's oil every day (see chart comparing global oil consumption). China, the next biggest consumer, uses less than 7% of the world's oil each day. America's huge appetite for oil combined with the fact that the United States is the world's third largest producer of it (only Saudi Arabia and Russia produce more than we do) creates a strong argument that the United States holds a lot of sway over world oil prices.

The energy bill that President Bush signed in 2005 does nothing to address the U.S. factors that are driving oil and gas prices to record highs. Congress and the White House explicitly rejected efforts to improve fuel economy standards for our cars and trucks (which account for 60% of our oil consumption) or adequately fund fossil fuel alternatives.

The oil companies don't mind. Since Bush became President, the largest five oil companies operating in the US - ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco, ConocoPhillips, BP and Shell - have enjoyed profits of $464 billion, with ExxonMobil leading the way with profits of $158.5 billion.

Meanwhile, gas prices continue to go up up up - and no oil company is reinvesting their profits into the things that will benefit motorists. For example, in 2006 ExxonMobil spent $37.2 buying back its stock and paying dividends - at the same time, the company spent only $3.3 billion on capital investment in the U.S. So there is a direct correlation between record prices paid by consumers and record profits enjoyed by oil companies. As Americans shell out more dollars at the pump, the profit margin by U.S. oil refiners has shot up 158% since 1999 (the year Exxon and Mobil merged).​

Hundreds of billions of dollars in profits, while we're giving them millions of our tax dollars as "corporate welfare". Meanwhile, they spill billions of gallons of oil into the Gulf due to gross negligence. And now they want us to pay for a pipeline that they swear will be ever so safe.

How stupid can we be?

 

[MrDeets]

Hundreds of billions of dollars in profits, while we're giving them millions of our tax dollars as "corporate welfare". Meanwhile, they spill billions of gallons of oil into the Gulf due to gross negligence. And now they want us to pay for a pipeline that they swear will be ever so safe.

How stupid can we be?

So what? They make money... whats wrong with that. Even if you don't like the chart I showed, oil companies STILL aren't the most profitable. Why aren't you attacking those other companies.


Do you care to even try to answer some of the questions I posted? Probably not, you'll just dodge them and keep whining about how much money they make. What if I told you you could be making 150K within 5 years? Without a college degree??

 

[The Berean]

So what? They make money... whats wrong with that. Even if you don't like the chart I showed, oil companies STILL aren't the most profitable. Why aren't you attacking those other companies.


Do you care to even try to answer some of the questions I posted? Probably not, you'll just dodge them and keep whining about how much money they make. What if I told you you could be making 150K within 5 years? Without a college degree??

When I was in college back in the late 1980's my university's mechanical engineering department still had a petroleum concentration along with an HVAC and general concentration. I chose the general concentration. I wonder how much I would be making today if I had chosen the petroleum concentration? :think:

 

[chrysostom]

the cost of energy is going up
so
you really should be thinking about what you are going to do about it
and
we already have many complaining about it
so
it would really help
if
there is something else you could do

 

[PureX]

the cost of energy is going up
so
you really should be thinking about what you are going to do about it
and
we already have many complaining about it
so
it would really help
if
there is something else you could do

We could buy smaller cars instead of big SUVs. We could buy electric 'commuter' cars for our local driving. We could car-pool and ride busses and subways when we can. And we can stop electing politicians who are so clearly toadies of the oil industry.

The price gouging is directly related to our need for gasoline, so the less of it we use, the lower the price will go.