toldailytopic: What should be done with the guy who murdered the people at the Colora

[This Charming Manc]

So you admit you cherry pick which bits of Old testament law you wish to apply? That's fair but don't take the view you are taking a more righteous position than everyone else. You just following you political views and cherry picking proof texts to back them up.

A few verses before the one you choose, there was a very 'lefty' verse about making sure the poor got looked after. Would be as keen to apply that to your life lets say to healthcare

When you are harvesting in your field and you overlook a sheaf, do not go back to get it. Leave it for the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. 20 When you beat the olives from your trees, do not go over the branches a second time. Leave what remains for the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow. 21 When you harvest the grapes in your vineyard, do not go over the vines again. Leave what remains for the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow. 22 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt. That is why I command you to do this.

Well maybe if you read deeper you would find that most of Gods punishments decreed in the OT were limitations not demands.

The social laws laid down in the law were much less harsh, fairer and more equitable than those of the surrounding countries and times.

The OT law is not a perfect representation of Gods law and morals, we find that in Jesus and his teaching. If your theological stance pushes you away from the direct teaching of Jesus you loose touch with the pure revelation of the heart of God.

I don't recall god calling for someone to lashed and tortured and then killed anywhere in the OT. Our societies have done the same and worse in the past, but I don't recall god calling for it anywhere.

Be sure not to attribute your own self righteous blood lust to God, because I think, it puts you on dodgy ground.

The Constitution says he has a right to a speedy trial, so why don't the courts actually listen to it for once? Because it happens to be right.

So I shouldn't advocate murder, theft and rape being illegal?

I don't simply apply OT law, I look at the commands of God and see which ones are just and good for society and advocate their inclusion in our own justice system because they are just and good for society, not because they're in the Bible.

But that wasn't even my point in posting that verse, this time. I posted it because you call yourself a Christian and you called such beatings "torture," thereby calling God a proponent of torture, as He commanded such beatings in certain cases.

You're a hypocrite is what I'm getting at.

 

[PureX]

I'm actually very appreciative of that argument, however who decides, how and when?

Once you open the door to the death penalty you always stand the chance of highly dubious cases such as this one ?

But this case in Colorado is not dubious. Nor are most of these kinds of terroristic mass killings. I'm not suggesting that we execute people when we are not sure they're guilty. My point really is that I think we should base our laws on protecting ourselves and helping the victims first, and then if possible, rehabilitating the criminals. Not on foolish notions of righteousness or vengeance.

 

[PureX]

I am thinking along these lines. Its not a situation of making some sort of statement of deterrent--you cannot deter crazy. Of course, the killer may have been totally lucid in this case, but I doubt that.

I wouldn't necessarily accept crazy as an excuse from execution in these kinds of cases. Whatever caused a person to commit an act of mass random murder, it's the fact that they have done so that poses the threat to everyone living. And it's that threat that warrants their execution.

Perhaps if the exact cause of the behavior could be determined, and could be PERMANENTLY remedied, then execution would not be necessary.

 

[eameece]

I don't simply apply OT law, I look at the commands of God and see which ones are just and good for society and advocate their inclusion in our own justice system because they are just and good for society, not because they're in the Bible.

But that wasn't even my point in posting that verse, this time. I posted it because you call yourself a Christian and you called such beatings "torture," thereby calling God a proponent of torture, as He commanded such beatings in certain cases.

You're a hypocrite is what I'm getting at.

In other words, you advocate the things YOU want to choose from the Bible, but when someone else does the same thing, (s)he is a hypocrite.

I see a black kettle here....

 

[Cracked]

I wouldn't necessarily accept crazy as an excuse from execution in these kinds of cases. Whatever caused a person to commit an act of mass random murder, it's the fact that they have done so that poses the threat to everyone living. And it's that threat that warrants their execution.

Perhaps if the exact cause of the behavior could be determined, and could be PERMANENTLY remedied, then execution would not be necessary.

I agree. My point was that many say execution is good because it is a deterrent--and in cases like these I doubt very much that it is.

 

[lifeisgood]

James Holmes should be....

- Interviewed once or twice.
- Preached to by a Pastor.
- Brought to the wall and executed by a fire squad (making sure all rifles are loaded -- not just one) -- publicly.
- Make sure enough people are witnesses that he is really deceased.

Then

- Buried publicly.

48 hours max.

This way less opportunity for "conspiracy" theories.

 

[Delmar]

James Holmes should be....

- Interviewed once or twice.
- Preached to by a Pastor.
- Painfully executed.

48 hours max.

This

 

[sky.]

It's not done in public so we can be spectators, but so we can see what will happen if we ever do such a thing.

Well I don't need to see it to know being executed is a bad thing. Do you?

To me anyone who would want to see it would be reveling in the death of someone.

 

[2COR12:9]

I can see my opinion may not be acceptable, but I think he should be given life in prison, to keep him from possibly harming anyone else.

Lastly I believe he should be prayed for, and I hope some of you are doing so, if you call yourself a Christian. How can we not show mercy, when each one of our lives is spared for the sins we have committed against God. Christ forgave the people while he was being murdered, and paid what they owe to God. The least we can do is pray for this guy to know Christ, and give him a chance for the Spirit to work.

Do not forget, we all deserve death; thank God we were not given a speedy trial, but that God is patient, or we all would be burning after our first sin.

I know the laws of the land can do what they want, but I pray God is the one to avenge how He sees fit. All I can do, is what Christ calls me to do, and that's to love and pray for my enemies.​

 

[PureX]

James Holmes should be....

- Interviewed once or twice.
- Preached to by a Pastor.
- Brought to the wall and executed by a fire squad (making sure all rifles are loaded -- not just one) -- publicly.
- Make sure enough people are witnesses that he is really deceased.

Then

- Buried publicly.

48 hours max.

This way less opportunity for "conspiracy" theories.

Right, because fair trials are a waste of time, and the authorities are never wrong about who is guilty within the first 48 hours of when a crime is committed.

 

[Lighthouse]

So you admit you cherry pick which bits of Old testament law you wish to apply? That's fair but don't take the view you are taking a more righteous position than everyone else. You just following you political views and cherry picking proof texts to back them up.

What makes me a cherry picker? Go ahead and show me that I am doing that, and how.

Come on...

Go ahead...

A few verses before the one you choose, there was a very 'lefty' verse about making sure the poor got looked after. Would be as keen to apply that to your life lets say to healthcare

You're stupid.

Just because I don't think it's the governments job to take my money and give it to other people doesn't mean I'm opposed to using my money to help other people.

Well maybe if you read deeper you would find that most of Gods punishments decreed in the OT were limitations not demands.

:AMR:

The social laws laid down in the law were much less harsh, fairer and more equitable than those of the surrounding countries and times.

So?

The OT law is not a perfect representation of Gods law and morals, we find that in Jesus and his teaching. If your theological stance pushes you away from the direct teaching of Jesus you loose touch with the pure revelation of the heart of God.

Care to actually support your argument?

I don't recall god calling for someone to lashed and tortured and then killed anywhere in the OT. Our societies have done the same and worse in the past, but I don't recall god calling for it anywhere.

Lashed and tortured? I thought you said the lashing was torture.

Here's an idea, use your brain to put two and two together; the verse I quoted was a general application law, meaning it applied to many cases, including capital cases.

Be sure not to attribute your own self righteous blood lust to God, because I think, it puts you on dodgy ground.

I don't have any blood lust. I don't advocate the death penalty because I want someone to die; I advocate it because I don't want murderers to continue killing more people.

In other words, you advocate the things YOU want to choose from the Bible, but when someone else does the same thing, (s)he is a hypocrite.

I see a black kettle here....

No, moron.

Are you seriously accusing me of cherry picking because I think it should be illegal to commit murder, but not to wear mixed linens?

Or is it because I said it has nothing to do with the fact that it's in the Bible?

You're an idiot.

Well I don't need to see it to know being executed is a bad thing. Do you?

I don't. But my mind is sound and I don't want to commit a crime. We're talking about people who do want to commit such crimes, who need to know they will be executed if they do.

 

[Lighthouse]

Right, because fair trials are a waste of time, and the authorities are never wrong about who is guilty within the first 48 hours of when a crime is committed.

Nobody said within 48 hours of the crime. It's within 48 hours after conviction. Use your brain.

 

[The Horn]

James Holmes is a stark raving lunatic. It's absolutely barbaric to execute deranged people who commit terrible crimes. It's wrong to execute anyone, period.
And to execute him"painfully" as Knight wants is absolutely nexcusable. You don't put down a a dangerous animal that has killed some one cruelly . You put it to sleep. Holmes is not responsible for what he did. He is totaly insane .
Knight is such a jerk. We're not living in the Bronze Age when the Bible was written. Or in the middle ages . Remember the movie Brave Heart? When Mel Gibson was finally caught after the Scottish rebellion, they put him to death in public in a horribly brutal and barbaric manner. I thought humanity had progressed beyond this barbarism.
Executing Holmes will do absolutely NOTHING to stop other maniacs from committing similar atrocitites. In fact, it would probably only ENCOURAGE more lunatics to kill mass number sof people .

 

[Traditio]

toldailytopic: What should be done with the guy who murdered the people at the Colorado Movie Theater?

Presupposing he pleads guilty? Life in prison.

Presupposing he pleads not guilty? He should be given a fair trial, either convicted or acquitted by a jury of his peers and, if he's guilty, he should spend the rest of his life in prison. Or in a nut house.

 

[vegascowboy]

James Holmes should be....

- Interviewed once or twice.
- Preached to by a Pastor.
- Painfully executed.

48 hours max.

Agreed! Sadly, it will never happen. He will be alive 20 years from now because it will be argued that there were a million reasons why he did what he did and that the whole system - including the federal government and the schools and his family and his friends growing up and his professors at college and the television industry and on and on and on - let him down and it isn't his fault whatsoever that he took out his anger/sadness/agression against innocents.

 

[PureX]

Nobody said within 48 hours of the crime. It's within 48 hours after conviction. Use your brain.

Use your language. You made a list of what you wanted to see done, and then wrote, "48 hours max". One would assume that was to accomplish the list.

 

[vegascowboy]

James Holmes is a stark raving lunatic. It's absolutely barbaric to execute deranged people who commit terrible crimes. It's wrong to execute anyone, period.
And to execute him"painfully" as Knight wants is absolutely nexcusable. You don't put down a a dangerous animal that has killed some one cruelly . You put it to sleep. Holmes is not responsible for what he did. He is totaly insane .
Knight is such a jerk. We're not living in the Bronze Age when the Bible was written. Or in the middle ages . Remember the movie Brave Heart? When Mel Gibson was finally caught after the Scottish rebellion, they put him to death in public in a horribly brutal and barbaric manner. I thought humanity had progressed beyond this barbarism.
Executing Holmes will do absolutely NOTHING to stop other maniacs from committing similar atrocitites. In fact, it would probably only ENCOURAGE more lunatics to kill mass number sof people .

And just when I thought you couldn't be more of an idiot. Shame on me for being naive.

 

[Granite]

Fair trial, single bullet, pauper's grave, then never mention his name again. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

James Holmes is a stark raving lunatic. It's absolutely barbaric to execute deranged people who commit terrible crimes. It's wrong to execute anyone, period.
And to execute him"painfully" as Knight wants is absolutely nexcusable. You don't put down a a dangerous animal that has killed some one cruelly . You put it to sleep. Holmes is not responsible for what he did. He is totaly insane .
Knight is such a jerk. We're not living in the Bronze Age when the Bible was written. Or in the middle ages . Remember the movie Brave Heart? When Mel Gibson was finally caught after the Scottish rebellion, they put him to death in public in a horribly brutal and barbaric manner. I thought humanity had progressed beyond this barbarism.
Executing Holmes will do absolutely NOTHING to stop other maniacs from committing similar atrocitites. In fact, it would probably only ENCOURAGE more lunatics to kill mass number sof people .

Congratulations. That may well be the dumbest post ever made on TOL. :up:

 

[bybee]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for July 21st, 2012 12:39 PM

toldailytopic: What should be done with the guy who murdered the people at the Colorado Movie Theater?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
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First off, minimal media coverage. I don't care about his past or that he is brilliant or nuts or both. To me he is depraved. He should get only minimal coverage. To turn him into a daily highlight is
unspeakable!
He should be interviewed by mental health experts. The interviews must be video taped for future reference and for evidence.
Let us believe that he is what he presents himself to be, a cold blooded, calculating killer of the innocent.
It appears that he is devoid of normal human feelings.
Let his punishment be meted out by law expeditiously.