toldailytopic: What do you think about the new openly gay military?

[Granite]

This is going to be a blip on the screen and will amount to nothing in another couple years. Armed forces the world over have done this and they haven't fallen apart (again: the Israelis, people). We have better things to worry and talk about other than getting picky about men and women who--unlike most of us--have volunteered to risk their lives.

I can't think of anything more cowardly, presumptuous, snide, and chickenhawkish than some armchair warrior telling a volunteer not to serve his or her country because of who they love. That's beyond cheap. That's just insulting.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Amen to moral troops. But alcoholics have served, wife-beaters have served, murderers; selfish men have served. Women have served, with distinction. Sinners all. With whom will you climb into a foxhole?

While women in combat is another topic, I don't think it's fair that you lumped them in with alcoholics, wife-beaters and murderers.

And yes, the above have served, but their sin wasn't their "proud identity". If they were caught doing the above while on active duty, they were tried, imprisoned and/or discharged.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I can't think of anything more cowardly, presumptuous, snide, and chickenhawkish than some armchair warrior telling a volunteer not to serve his or her country because of who they love. That's beyond cheap. That's just insulting.

STATEMENT OF BRIAN JONES
SERGEANT MAJOR USA (RET)
CEO, ADVENTURE TRAINING CONCEPTS
HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON PERSONNEL
In Support of Section 654, Title 10, the 1993 Law Stating that
Homosexuals are not Eligible to Serve in the Military
2118 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, D.C.
July 23, 2008

"I am a retired Sergeant Major, US Army. I am a Ranger first and always. The
most common attribute that I see on Military evaluation reports is “selfless
service”. I chose a career path that placed me in a Ranger Battalion, Delta
Force, and as a Detachment Sergeant Major at the Ranger Regiment...
http://cmrlink.org/fileuploads/HASC072308JonesTestimony.pdf

 

[Granite]

Well said Granite!

"STATEMENT OF BRIAN JONES
SERGEANT MAJOR USA (RET)
CEO, ADVENTURE TRAINING CONCEPTS
HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON PERSONNEL
In Support of Section 654, Title 10, the 1993 Law Stating that
Homosexuals are not Eligible to Serve in the Military
2118 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, D.C.
July 23, 2008

"I am a retired Sergeant Major, US Army. I am a Ranger first and always. The
most common attribute that I see on Military evaluation reports is “selfless
service”. I chose a career path that placed me in a Ranger Battalion, Delta
Force, and as a Detachment Sergeant Major at the Ranger Regiment...
http://cmrlink.org/fileuploads/HASC072308JonesTestimony.pdf

Toilet Boy, I couldn't care less what a vile, loathsome, and depraved liar like you has to say about anything. It was inveterate liars like yourself who pretend they wear a uniform that I had in mind in my previous post.

For the record, I have an uncle in the Navy, brother in the Army, two Ranger pals, and am friends with two retired Marines. None of them care a bit about DADT's repeal, and the nice thing is, they actually know what they're talking about. Unlike yourself.

Go feed some newbie your tales about being Officer McAwesome in Seattle. No one here with a clue buys your bunk.

 

[rexlunae]

How many straight men and women want to take showers with openly gay persons looking at them? What is next, all closed in private showers? What about dorm rooms, do we separate them?

Well, what about dorm rooms? There hasn't been any "protection" for straight people in that situation for a very long time. And you deal with it. It doesn't seem to actually create as much trouble as you seem to think it will.

Some gay will protest ( separate but equal) and some many find it party time. It all seems so stupid to me, why not keep the personal, personal?

This is more about not punishing people for their personal lives if the wrong person finds out something they shouldn't. Promiscuity on duty, regardless of sexual orientation, still is't likely to be tolerated.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Toilet Boy, I couldn't care less what a vile, loathsome, and depraved liar like you has to say about anything. It was inveterate liars like yourself who pretend they wear a uniform that I had in mind in my previous post.

For the record, I have an uncle in the Navy, brother in the Army, two Ranger pals, and am friends with two retired Marines. None of them care a bit about DADT's repeal, and the nice thing is, they actually know what they're talking about. Unlike yourself.

Go feed some newbie your tales about being Officer McAwesome in Seattle. No one here with a clue buys your bunk.

Now that you're finished with your little tirade, would you care to discuss the other issues such as bloodborne pathogens and over representation when it comes to homosexual violence?
http://americansfortruth.com/2010/0...assaults-in-military-disproportionately-high/
http://newswithviews.com/Kincaid/cliff425.htm

 

[rexlunae]

Now that you're finished with your little tirade, would you care to discuss the other issues such as ...

Hear that? That was the sound of the goalposts being moved at record speed.

 

[jwp98]

While women in combat is another topic, I don't think it's fair that you lumped them in with alcoholics, wife-beaters and murderers.

And yes, the above have served, but their sin wasn't their "proud identity". If they were caught doing the above while on active duty, they were tried, imprisoned and/or discharged.

Yeah you're right I shouldn't have worded it so. If you would kindly look at my post again, women are in a separate sentence and mentioned for their distinction.

I lack experience but don't think there is room for sexual attraction or forced tolerance in a squad. Data says they fight for each other, not for a country or cause. A small fraction of time is spent shooting. That critical unit integrity probably develops during the remaining down time.

If I was in charge, my policy would be to listen to the troops. So far, opinions are split.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Yeah you're right I shouldn't have worded it so. If you would kindly look at my post again, women are in a separate sentence and mentioned for their distinction.

Tis duly noted.

I lack experience but don't think there is room for sexual attraction or forced tolerance in a squad. Data says they fight for each other, not for a country or cause. A small fraction of time is spent shooting. That critical unit integrity probably develops during the remaining down time.

What you lack in experience, you make up for in common sense. Also note that we're not dealing with normal attraction between a man and a woman (which has had negative effect on troop performance), we're dealing with a sexual attraction that is a perversion. Others agree:

"I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way," said Marine General Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt/in_print/top_general_calls_gays_immoral

If I was in charge, my policy would be to listen to the troops. So far, opinions are split.

While I've never been one to leave it up to the line worker to tell management how a company should be run (although their input is valuable), it appears that 67% of Marine's were against the repeal of DADT,
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...repeal-would-have-negative-impact_520506.html

as well as the men that "run the business".
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/army-air-force-marine-chiefs-against-dadt-repeal_520659.html

 

[The Barbarian]

I didn't think it would be much of a problem. Back in the day, when Truman integrated the armed forces, there were dire predictions, which of course, were pure foolishness.

The troops, whether they were happy about it or not, generally said "yes sir", and kept on doing what they do.

Military is the easiest place to effect social change. They know about discipline and order.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I didn't think it would be much of a problem. Back in the day, when Truman integrated the armed forces, there were dire predictions, which of course, were pure foolishness.

The troops, whether they were happy about it or not, generally said "yes sir", and kept on doing what they do.

The problem is, you're comparing race with a changeable behavior and a lifestyle that every major world religion (including yours) and thousands of years of history have held to be immoral and destructive from a spiritual and emotional -- and certainly a physical standpoint.

Military is the easiest place to effect social change. They know about discipline and order.

But homosexuals don't: hence the high rate of promiscuity, disease, substance abuse and death in their so-called community.

 

[Granite]

Now that you're finished with your little tirade...

Get bent, why don't ya? Or go clean another latrine. It's what you're good at.

 

[chair]

If the Israelis can manage, I think we can too.

Oddly enough, I haven't thought much about this one way or the other. Which may explain why we manage.

Are Americans unusually obsessed with homosexuality, when compared to other countries?

 

[Granite]

Oddly enough, I haven't thought much about this one way or the other. Which may explain why we manage.

Are Americans unusually obsessed with homosexuality, when compared to other countries?

I'd say a small and very vocal minority forces us to discuss the issue more than most people care for.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
I didn't think it would be much of a problem. Back in the day, when Truman integrated the armed forces, there were dire predictions, which of course, were pure foolishness.

The troops, whether they were happy about it or not, generally said "yes sir", and kept on doing what they do.

The problem is, you're comparing race with a changeable behavior

I think you'll see that the troops are no less capable of handling this, then they were capable of handling racial integration. I've actually served, and I can tell you that the vast majority of them are better than you think they are.

Barbarian observes:
Military is the easiest place to effect social change. They know about discipline and order.

But homosexuals don't:

The Israeli army would laugh at that claim. They are one of the most disciplined and effective fighting forces in the world, and homosexuals have never been a problem.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Barbarian observes:
I didn't think it would be much of a problem. Back in the day, when Truman integrated the armed forces, there were dire predictions, which of course, were pure foolishness.

The troops, whether they were happy about it or not, generally said "yes sir", and kept on doing what they do.

I think you'll see that the troops are no less capable of handling this, then they were capable of handling racial integration. I've actually served, and I can tell you that the vast majority of them are better than you think they are.

Again, there is a huge difference between skin color and a chosen sexual behavior which in this case is a perversion.

Barbarian observes:
Military is the easiest place to effect social change. They know about discipline and order.

The Israeli army would laugh at that claim. They are one of the most disciplined and effective fighting forces in the world, and homosexuals have never been a problem.

Let's see what's going on with the fighting forces in the Israeli Army:

Gay and lesbian soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces said they have been sexually harassed during their military service.

Forty percent of the homosexual soldiers said they were verbally abused and 4 percent said they were physically abused, according to a new survey by the Israel Gay Youth organization.

Some 45 percent of respondents in the study said they heard homophobic remarks frequently or very frequently in their units, while 59 percent of soldiers in combat units said they heard homophobic remarks frequently.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/israel/article/homosexual_israeli_soldiers_claim_harassment_20110816/

So much for unity. It's probably because of those "religious fanatcis" (you know, the ones that actually believe in God and His Word) that are creating all the problems, huh?

Oh, don't forget to notice this in the article:

"Some 364 gay and lesbian soldiers currently serving in the Israeli military or discharged within the last year were surveyed for the report."

364 out of a fighting force of 104,000? They're miniscule yet already are having problems due to their sexually deviant lifestyle.

Let's look at the Brits shall we?

A group of five British paratroopers are on trial for allegedly indecently assaulting a young soldier – also British – in Afghanistan.

The paratroopers, all believed to be in their 20s, "humiliated" a 19-year-old soldier, stripping him naked, handcuffing him, holding him down and then sexually molesting him while other soldiers looked on. They also filmed and photographed the incident.
http://painfultruths.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/05/britains-homosexual-army.html

Also note from an earlier post that a Pentagon report states that assaults BY homosexuals are disportionately high ( this of course was prior to DADT being repealed, when they were supposed to keep their moral degeneracy hidden).