toldailytopic: The election is finally upon us. What do you think will be the outcome

[Town Heretic]

If you up hold this facist two party (charade) corperate system as being part of any solution then your part of the problem,

The system doesn't dictate two parties. So vote for a third. Start a third. Just do something.

And company (mentality)I wouldn't keep, blind partiotism has a historical record and its not pretty.

No one is celebrating blind anything. That's an empty sleeve. Wave it elsewhere. At least you'd be doing something.

Na, the buds of real freedom just lie dormant until the fruit of the consumers (slaves) runs out,

I'm sure that leaves the poetry corner breathless at the Revolutionaries R Us, but it's hooey. Freedom isn't found in or bound by things. That's all up to us in our response to them.

of coarse the ones who suck on the teet of the corperation will turn on their brothers and sisters for a buck, and help put down any real efforts to be free from this two party (charade) system you embrace.

I haven't actually advocated one, two or thirteen parties. I've advocated responsible citizenship and involvement in the process. I'm an independent moderate who's never pulled a single ticket line in his life, even when I identified with one party or the other.

See, you're just another grudge nursing zealot parroting your canned reasons for sitting on your noggin and gesturing rudely at those actually engaging in the attempt to make a difference. What you don't know about my personal political philosophy would fill a civics class. Not that you'd ask when it's easier to just talk through your assumptions and generalize the world into a coloring book.

PS professional wrestling isn't real!!

Neither is your grasp of the body politic or responsible advocacy.

My reward is being free from the brainwashed stream heading to more slavery if something doesn't wake them out of their floridated stupor.

I wonder how many times you've said this to someone. Sounds as pat as it is errant. Seriously, go back to sleep then. Tell your pillow you're a hero of the people.

Oh Iam sure your proud of the manifests destiny doctrine that brought genicide to the americas as well!

You show me a people, a civilization that didn't come into being or achieve greatness by conquering and I'll show you a conquered one. We also had slaves and denied women the vote, slapped people into concentration camps for ethnicity and currently kill infants in the name of personal liberty. Mankind is, historically, an ugly business. Some of us, generationally speaking, are in the business of making those sorts of things less likely and the general lot and expectation better. And we've been doing a pretty good job of that here, historically.

We aren't civilized. We're just striving to be.

Lastly, we didn't commit genocide. We just beat the then current occupants to pieces and shuffled them around to bits of land we thought were worthless. Some of them had the last laugh on that count and good on them. Brutal? You bet, but not genocide. If we'd truly wanted the Native American dead to a man the only place you'd find one now would be in literature.

I say nuts to you as well bub, and hear the blood cry out from my red brothers and sisters over that conquest as well, what goes around comes around and its on its way.

So that's your problem. You're an idiot if you think it's just or good that some white guy who never shot or mistreated or moved a Native American (which you actually weren't) in his life should be punished for what some idiot did long before he was born. As stupid as my wishing you dead for the Ft. Mims massacre would be (I don't). If that's the lesson you've learned from history you're no better than Custer and you're pushing your own version of that Manifest Destiny.

Time to shake that off and be a part of the solution.

 

[Angel4Truth]

But I like your angel4truth sign.

Thanks! I love it too, lighthouse made it

 

[Lovebug]

If you up hold this facist two party (charade) corperate system as being part of any solution then your part of the problem, And company (mentality)I wouldn't keep, blind partiotism has a historical record and its not pretty.



Na, the buds of real freedom just lie dormant until the fruit of the consumers (slaves) runs out, of coarse the ones who suck on the teet of the corperation will turn on their brothers and sisters for a buck, and help put down any real efforts to be free from this two party (charade) system you embrace. PS professional wrestling isn't real!!



My reward is being free from the brainwashed stream heading to more slavery if something doesn't wake them out of their floridated stupor.


Then most in DC couldn't vote then if that was true, but then again its do as we say not as we do!!




Oh Iam sure your proud of the manifests destiny doctrine that brought genicide to the americas as well! I say nuts to you as well bub, and hear the blood cry out from my red brothers and sisters over that conquest as well, what goes around comes around and its on its way.

'Amen Zeke!

 

[Lovebug]

The system doesn't dictate two parties. So vote for a third. Start a third. Just do something.


No one is celebrating blind anything. That's an empty sleeve. Wave it elsewhere. At least you'd be doing something.


I'm sure that leaves the poetry corner breathless at the Revolutionaries R Us, but it's hooey. Freedom isn't found in or bound by things. That's all up to us in our response to them.

I haven't actually advocated one, two or thirteen parties. I've advocated responsible citizenship and involvement in the process. I'm an independent moderate who's never pulled a single ticket line in his life, even when I identified with one party or the other.

See, you're just another grudge nursing zealot parroting your canned reasons for sitting on your noggin and gesturing rudely at those actually engaging in the attempt to make a difference. What you don't know about my personal political philosophy would fill a civics class. Not that you'd ask when it's easier to just talk through your assumptions and generalize the world into a coloring book.


Neither is your grasp of the body politic or responsible advocacy.


I wonder how many times you've said this to someone. Sounds as pat as it is errant. Seriously, go back to sleep then. Tell your pillow you're a hero of the people.


You show me a people, a civilization that didn't come into being or achieve greatness by conquering and I'll show you a conquered one. We also had slaves and denied women the vote, slapped people into concentration camps for ethnicity and currently kill infants in the name of personal liberty. Mankind is, historically, an ugly business. Some of us, generationally speaking, are in the business of making those sorts of things less likely and the general lot and expectation better. And we've been doing a pretty good job of that here, historically.

We aren't civilized. We're just striving to be.

Lastly, we didn't commit genocide. We just beat the then current occupants to pieces and shuffled them around to bits of land we thought were worthless. Some of them had the last laugh on that count and good on them. Brutal? You bet, but not genocide. If we'd truly wanted the Native American dead to a man the only place you'd find one now would be in literature.


So that's your problem. You're an idiot if you think it's just or good that some white guy who never shot or mistreated or moved a Native American (which you actually weren't) in his life should be punished for what some idiot did long before he was born. As stupid as my wishing you dead for the Ft. Mims massacre would be (I don't). If that's the lesson you've learned from history you're no better than Custer and you're pushing your own version of that Manifest Destiny.

Time to shake that off and be a part of the solution.

I would say that the 'something' that God expects is different than the 'something' that you would try to dictate to us.

I love ya brother, but please don't dictate, another man's conscience.

 

[Town Heretic]

I would say that the 'something' that God expects is different than the 'something' that you would try to dictate to us.

I don't have any authority to push anyone to do anything, but I'm saying that if your idea of responsible citizenship has you on the sideline instead of in the fight, I find that irresponsible, an abdication of your part, whoever you are.

Naysaying without engaging to me is the height of hubris.

I love ya brother, but please don't dictate, another man's conscience.

Who could do that? But what, I'm not allowed to speak from mine? Brother, you seem a bit one sided there.

 

[Zeke]

Town Heretic;3266080]The system doesn't dictate two parties. So vote for a third. Start a third. Just do something.

Your living in fantasy town if you think the third party has a chance of ever being a valid treat to the strangle hold the two major parties hold over the media and the rules of the game.

No one is celebrating blind anything. That's an empty sleeve. Wave it elsewhere. At least you'd be doing something.

If you don't like it wave your flag made in china some where else as well, I certainly won't try and change the coarse of the titanic your on, get off is my advise to everyone who isn't still asleep in their cabin.

I'm sure that leaves the poetry corner breathless at the Revolutionaries R Us, but it's hooey. Freedom isn't found in or bound by things. That's all up to us in our response to them.

Well the hooey is those who keep returning to the same infected well hoping for a cure, your brand of freedom and mine has a large gulf in between, your a institutionalized indian bowing to the sysytem that put you on the res.

I haven't actually advocated one, two or thirteen parties. I've advocated responsible citizenship and involvement in the process. I'm an independent moderate who's never pulled a single ticket line in his life, even when I identified with one party or the other.

If you were responsible you would be against the federal reserve, property taxes, involvement in foriegn wars, forced public schooling, and taxing of ones labor would you not? you may not be Identified with either party but your still blinded to the fact it won't ever except anyone who doesn't play by their rules which is stacked in their favor.

See, you're just another grudge nursing zealot parroting your canned reasons for sitting on your noggin and gesturing rudely at those actually engaging in the attempt to make a difference. What you don't know about my personal political philosophy would fill a civics class. Not that you'd ask when it's easier to just talk through your assumptions and generalize the world into a coloring book.

Like your not? I can say the same about your remarks toward me bub, zealot, lazy, of coarse those wouldn't be assumptions or generalizing when you use them.

Neither is your grasp of the body politic or responsible advocacy.

Well I grasp enough to know when something isn't working, and when the fix is in, its a rigged system if you can't except that then thats your inability to face reality.

I wonder how many times you've said this to someone. Sounds as pat as it is errant. Seriously, go back to sleep then. Tell your pillow you're a hero of the people.

Seriously your a legend in your own little fiat world system you live in, go play the game I won't stand in your way.

You show me a people, a civilization that didn't come into being or achieve greatness by conquering and I'll show you a conquered one. We also had slaves and denied women the vote, slapped people into concentration camps for ethnicity and currently kill infants in the name of personal liberty. Mankind is, historically, an ugly business. Some of us, generationally speaking, are in the business of making those sorts of things less likely and the general lot and expectation better. And we've been doing a pretty good job of that here, historically.

Yea GMO foods, floridated water, gem trails, banker bail outs, corperate welfare, goverment owning everything including you and your children, cameras on every corner, forced taxation at the end of a gun, falsh flags events, wars being fought over greed and falsh imformation, presidents refereing to the contitution as GD peice of paper, Judges making laws and going against the will of the people, yea your right things have really changed, and this is just a small portion of the crap being implimented by this dictatorship you sleep with, and if that not bad enough you try and defend the institution that spit you out like a robotic leeming.

We aren't civilized. We're just striving to be.

Well you need to strive in away it doesn't impower the enemy your trying to defeat.

Lastly, we didn't commit genocide. We just beat the then current occupants to pieces and shuffled them around to bits of land we thought were worthless. Some of them had the last laugh on that count and good on them. Brutal? You bet, but not genocide. If we'd truly wanted the Native American dead to a man the only place you'd find one now would be in literature.

Spoken like a good lawyer.

So that's your problem. You're an idiot if you think it's just or good that some white guy who never shot or mistreated or moved a Native American (which you actually weren't) in his life should be punished for what some idiot did long before he was born. As stupid as my wishing you dead for the Ft. Mims massacre would be (I don't). If that's the lesson you've learned from history you're no better than Custer and you're pushing your own version of that Manifest Destiny.

Time to shake that off and be a part of the solution.

Yet you have no problem with the adamic transgression being applied to the rest of humanity, why the reluctance for this goverment system to be judged for its many crimes? And of coarse the victor writes the history so your version might not match up with the reality or plight of native peoples.

 

[Lovebug]

I don't have any authority to push anyone to do anything, but I'm saying that if your idea of responsible citizenship has you on the sideline instead of in the fight, I find that irresponsible, an abdication of your part, whoever you are.

Naysaying without engaging to me is the height of hubris.


Who could do that? But what, I'm not allowed to speak from mine? Brother, you seem a bit one sided there.

No, you are more than welcome to speak your mindset, brother. Just do not try to push your conscience on mine. You want to say or claim that those who do not vote are being somehow irresposible, when my conscience says, 'do not fall for choosing one evil over another'.

My citizenship is in heaven, as the bible teaches me is the only place I am to reside.

This old sick world is not my home, and you will NOT find me fighting for it.

That is MY opinion.


I really don't care if you disagree, brother, you won't change my mind on this.

:wave:

 

[Angel4Truth]

No, you are more than welcome to speak your mindset, brother. Just do not try to push your conscience on mine. You want to say or claim that those who do not vote are being somehow irresposible, when my conscience says, 'do not fall for choosing one evil over another'.

My citizenship is in heaven, as the bible teaches me is the only place I am to reside.

This old sick world is not my home, and you will NOT find me fighting for it.

That is MY opinion.


I really don't care if you disagree, brother, you won't change my mind on this.

:wave:

Will Jesus change it?

Matthew 5:13 "You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it salty again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless.

To help you:

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

Ye are the salt of the earth - Salt renders food pleasant and palatable, and preserves from putrefaction. So Christians, by their lives and instructions, are to keep the world from entire moral corruption. By bringing down the blessing of God in answer to their prayers, and by their influence and example, they save the world from universal vice and crime.

 

[Town Heretic]

No, you are more than welcome to speak your mindset, brother. Just do not try to push your conscience on mine.

What you do with what I say is your business. I'm still perplexed by your notion of something being pushed upon anyone...outside of moving conscience or reason I'm powerless, so what are you talking about?

You want to say or claim that those who do not vote are being somehow irresposible, when my conscience says, 'do not fall for choosing one evil over another'.

I'd not only claim it, I'd say it's objectively, inarguably true that if you do nothing you're failing your civic duty. I didn't, however, suggest who you'd vote for. So the one evil over another is purely your creation. You needn't vote for any evil to vote.

My citizenship is in heaven, as the bible teaches me is the only place I am to reside.

You're living in the world and as an ambassador of the good what you do, the sort of example you set is important.

This old sick world is not my home, and you will NOT find me fighting for it.

Then you live contrary to the example of Christ, who died for it, who said that what you do for the least or fail to do is of consequence.

That is MY opinion.

And I find it a tragic and irresponsible waste, though I respect your right to hold it.

I really don't care if you disagree, brother, you won't change my mind on this.

More's the pity.

:e4e:

 

[Zeke]

Whats going to change things isn't through the vote, change only happens when enough people relize the goverment is not the solution but the problem, look at the revolutional mind set of the founders, they understood the system wasn't going to give them independence from serfdom, the folly is to think it is any different today.

But the insitutionalized can't see it, and will always defend their master.

 

[Lovebug]

Will Jesus change it?

Matthew 5:13 "You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it salty again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless.

To help you:

You need to understand that from my perspective, the salt loses it's saltiness when it does as the world does. Choosing between two evils is doing as the world does.

WE are told to overcome evil with good and I do not have to bend a knee to baal to get it done.

 

[Lovebug]

Town Heretic;3268054]What you do with what I say is your business. I'm still perplexed by your notion of something being pushed upon anyone...outside of moving conscience or reason I'm powerless, so what are you talking about?

I am saying you won't change my mind or my conscience by your freewill thought, and I am saying that when you make a claim that it is black or white and I must choose your 'black' side, that is wrong in my opinion. Let freedom rule, and reign in the hearts of men, and let each one declare his own conscience, without making blanket statements that when I do not fit into the 'black' mold, I am in your book, less than you in some self imposed way, as your claim dictates.

I'd not only claim it, I'd say it's objectively, inarguably true that if you do nothing you're failing your civic duty. I didn't, however, suggest who you'd vote for. So the one evil over another is purely your creation. You needn't vote for any evil to vote.

First of all, it is not about doing nothing. It is about the right to vote, or not vote, and choose between two evils.
I do more for my community than any politition ever did, for your info. Have they ever went and fed the hungry, expecting nothing in return?

Do not put your self imposed rules on me.

You're living in the world and as an ambassador of the good what you do, the sort of example you set is important.

So? Living in the world and being OF the world are not the same thing.

Then you live contrary to the example of Christ, who died for it, who said that what you do for the least or fail to do is of consequence.

I would die for it, I just wont choose or uphold a false sytem that has no 'option to choose' something less than evil. Is that ok with you?

You do not have to vote to do good, friend.

And I find it a tragic and irresponsible waste, though I respect your right to hold it.

.and, I respect yours...even though I find it disgustingly silly.

More's the pity.

:e4e:

Why do you feel a need to pity?

I could not be happier.

 

[Lovebug]

Whats going to change things isn't through the vote, change only happens when enough people relize the goverment is not the solution but the problem, look at the revolutional mind set of the founders, they understood the system wasn't going to give them independence from serfdom, the folly is to think it is any different today.

But the insitutionalized can't see it, and will always defend their master.

Exactly.

:first:

 

[Town Heretic]

I am saying you won't change my mind or my conscience by your freewill thought,

If it's any consolation, I'm fairly certain most people lack it and are under the direct command of their hindbrain.

and I am saying that when you make a claim that it is black or white and I must choose your 'black' side, that is wrong in my opinion.

Well, it is or it isn't....lain: That really never gets old.

Let freedom rule, and reign in the hearts of men, and let each one declare his own conscience, without making blanket statements that when I do not fit into the 'black' mold,

Yet you chose "black mold" with the intrinsic negatives that associate. Or was that your hindbrain?

I am in your book, less than you in some self imposed way, as your claim dictates.

No, you're in a rather tangible way less than you ought to be. Doesn't matter if I'm St. John or John Wilkes Booth.

First of all, it is not about doing nothing. It is about the right to vote, or not vote, and choose between two evils.

No, it isn't. And you aren't apparently listening if you repeat that nonsense. I haven't told anyone how to vote, only that failing to vote is failing the obligation of citizenship.

I do more for my community than any politition ever did, for your info.

President Carter will be impressed to hear it. So will President Clinton, for that matter. But I never said you failed your duty in regard to Christian charity.

. Have they ever went and fed the hungry, expecting nothing in return?

Yes, though I'd hope that's true for any Christian. And I'd commend anyone who is or has been vitally involved in the affairs of his or her community, in meeting its needs. It's just not my point in this thread.

Do not put your self imposed rules on me.

How, exactly, can I do that? Now as to my opinion about citizenship, I'll advance it as I see it, whatever your response to that might be. In fact, as someone who values civic involvement and the encouragement of that model I'd be obliged to.

So? Living in the world and being OF the world are not the same thing.

I never said that they were, so if you have a larger point you'll have to make it. Setting an example isn't being of the world unless your grammar is a match for your voting record.

I would die for it, I just wont choose or uphold a false sytem

Beans. There's nothing false about a government, instituted among men and answerable to God.

that has no 'option to choose' something less than evil. Is that ok with you?

It would be if you weren't mistaken and to bad affect. By way of example, in every state there were measures on the last ballot containing good or reckless provisions relating to the public good. In ours one example involved funding for schools, the continuation of a one cent tax to help an excellent county school system that is among the best in our state. Voting for that measure was a good. And there were a number of candidates or offices, great and small, aimed at the public trust. Some were approached by good men and women, if you informed yourself on the candidates. Some weren't. When they weren't a person could either abstain and that lack would represent itself statistically against the larger number of overall voting on measures, making the no confidence intent tangible--or one could write in someone as another act of tangible rejection.

You do not have to vote to do good, friend.

Of course not, but I'd argue that when you fail to vote you most assuredly pass on an opportunity and fail your duty as a citizen.

and, I respect yours...even though I find it disgustingly silly.

Yes, that is rather palpable.

Why do you feel a need to pity?

Because, as Edmund Burke put it, ""All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." When someone with good intentions stands by like this it is cause for regret.

I could not be happier.

Which seems to my mind a tragedy of the first order.

:e4e:

 

[Lovebug]

If it's any consolation, I'm fairly certain most people lack it and are under the direct command of their hindbrain.


Well, it is or it isn't....lain: That really never gets old.


Yet you chose "black mold" with the intrinsic negatives that associate. Or was that your hindbrain?


No, you're in a rather tangible way less than you ought to be. Doesn't matter if I'm St. John or John Wilkes Booth.


No, it isn't. And you aren't apparently listening if you repeat that nonsense. I haven't told anyone how to vote, only that failing to vote is failing the obligation of citizenship.


President Carter will be impressed to hear it. So will President Clinton, for that matter. But I never said you failed your duty in regard to Christian charity.


Yes, though I'd hope that's true for any Christian. And I'd commend anyone who is or has been vitally involved in the affairs of his or her community, in meeting its needs. It's just not my point in this thread.


How, exactly, can I do that? Now as to my opinion about citizenship, I'll advance it as I see it, whatever your response to that might be. In fact, as someone who values civic involvement and the encouragement of that model I'd be obliged to.


I never said that they were, so if you have a larger point you'll have to make it. Setting an example isn't being of the world unless your grammar is a match for your voting record.


Beans. There's nothing false about a government, instituted among men and answerable to God.


It would be if you weren't mistaken and to bad affect. By way of example, in every state there were measures on the last ballot containing good or reckless provisions relating to the public good. In ours one example involved funding for schools, the continuation of a one cent tax to help an excellent county school system that is among the best in our state. Voting for that measure was a good. And there were a number of candidates or offices, great and small, aimed at the public trust. Some were approached by good men and women, if you informed yourself on the candidates. Some weren't. When they weren't a person could either abstain and that lack would represent itself statistically against the larger number of overall voting on measures, making the no confidence intent tangible--or one could write in someone as another act of tangible rejection.


Of course not, but I'd argue that when you fail to vote you most assuredly pass on an opportunity and fail your duty as a citizen.


Yes, that is rather palpable.


Because, as Edmund Burke put it, ""All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." When someone with good intentions stands by like this it is cause for regret.


Which seems to my mind a tragedy of the first order.

:e4e:

Like I said, you have come to the conclusion that not voting is 'doing nothing' and, I do not buy into that propaganda.

If you want to have that mindset, go for it...brother.

That is all I am going to say. You have not changed my mind one bit, and niether will you.

I will not vote just to please men.

If I did vote, it would be because I could support the person I was voting for..and, their 'agenda'. If all I see is a rotten agenda from all sides, do not expect me to take up a blind rule, just to appease you.

 

[Town Heretic]

Like I said, you have come to the conclusion that not voting is 'doing nothing' and, I do not buy into that propaganda.

If you want to have that mindset, go for it...brother.

That is all I am going to say. You have not changed my mind one bit, and niether will you.

I will not vote just to please men.

If I did vote, it would be because I could support the person I was voting for..and, their 'agenda'. If all I see is a rotten agenda from all sides, do not expect me to take up a blind rule, just to appease you.

I'd answer you on point, but I make it a policy not to continue to work harder than someone I'm having a conversation with, so...I've set out what I think the failure is, why I find the two evils a wrong headed over generalization and what I feel our obligation as responsible citizens is.

Do with it what you will. It's just an opinion and that's all anything posted on an internet forum comes to.

:e4e:

 

[Lovebug]

I'd answer you on point, but I make it a policy not to continue to work harder than someone I'm having a conversation with, so...I've set out what I think the failure is, why I find the two evils a wrong headed over generalization and what I feel our obligation as responsible citizens is.

Do with it what you will. It's just an opinion and that's all anything posted on an internet forum comes to.

:e4e:

Agreed.

 

[Zeke]

The very things good folks like TH regulate to the loony bin, was exactly the same things JFK warned about.