toldailytopic: Obama's State of the Union speech. What did you think of it?

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nicholsmom

New member
They knew plenty. The democrats asked the republicans "what would you like to see in this bill" The republicans answered. The democrats put said provisions in the bill then they all voted against it. How is that not obstructionism?

:rotfl: What are you smokin' man? There is no reconciling the total take-over of the Pelosi/Reed plans and the Republican fix-what's-broken approach. The Dem's asking for input on their bill is plain laughable - the first revision would have to be to pitch the thing, then we could get to work on things that will actually help, like unencumbering interstate commerce by requiring states to allow citizens to purchase insurance across state lines.
 

Clark Frugal

New member
The Fool on the Hill

The Fool on the Hill

Today a rightwing talking head on the radio mad me mad. In the show's intro they played the Beatles' song 'Fool on the hill' with pieces of President Obama's speech. That commentator explained because President Obama was the fool on the hill in Washington. That mad me mad because I believe in this President and voted for him.

Then it hit me: Playing that beautiful Beatle song about Obama is a complement! When you hear the song you realize that saying that he is the Fool on the Hill in washington is a great complement, just see the words:

Day after day alone on the hill
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him,
The can see that he's just a fool
And he never gives an answer

But the fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round

Well on the way, head in a cloud
The man of a thousand voices talking perfectly loud
But nobody ever hears him
Or the sound he appears to make
And he never seems to notice

But the fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round

And nobody seems to like him
They can tell what he wants to do
And he never shows his feelings

But the fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round

Oh round, round, round, round, round

And he never listens to them
He know that they're the fool
They don't like him

The fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round

Oh round, round, round, round, oh
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
Really? Precisely what part of Kennedy's majority opinion was "activist"?

Oh I don't know, overturning 100 years of precedent enough for you?

John Roberts wasn't exactly "calling balls and strikes" in this one. They chose to take the case far beyond the narrow ruling that would have sufficed.
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
:rotfl: What are you smokin' man? There is no reconciling the total take-over of the Pelosi/Reed plans and the Republican fix-what's-broken approach.
The republicans had an approach? I sure didn't hear anything about it. as far as I'm concerned the house bill was about as "fix what's broken" as you can get. It's not as if it was ACTUALLY a government takeover of healthcare (the real left didn't like it and even less the senate version). And STILL no republicans voted for it. No republican administration has EVER proposed reform on their own. Republicans have always been about scare tactics and obstructionism when it comes to health care. Tell your story to someone who is naive enough believe it.

The Dem's asking for input on their bill is plain laughable - the first revision would have to be to pitch the thing, then we could get to work on things that will actually help, like unencumbering interstate commerce by requiring states to allow citizens to purchase insurance across state lines.

Simply allowing people to buy insurance across state lines is like putting a band aid on a 10 inch gash. We need more than that. The health care system is far more broken than you give it credit for.
 

WizardofOz

New member
things that will actually help, like unencumbering interstate commerce by requiring states to allow citizens to purchase insurance across state lines.

I keep hearing that things can be done that will actually help. Yet, that's the only thing I ever hear suggested.

The idea gets promoted by many Republicans like it's the magic key to fixing health care.

That's not a bill, it's a Post-It note.
 

Cracked

New member
I would like to hear from someone who was impressed or inspired by that speech since I am a big skeptic of this man, in that I don't believe anything that proceeds from his mouth :sigh:

That's good - just apply that to all politicians and you'll be doing alright.
 

WandererInFog

New member
Oh I don't know, overturning 100 years of precedent enough for you?

John Roberts wasn't exactly "calling balls and strikes" in this one. They chose to take the case far beyond the narrow ruling that would have sufficed.

Roberts didn't write the majority opinion, Kennedy did. Have you actually read any part of it? I ask this because there has been an enormous amount of exaggeration in the press of what the decision actually did. The decision struck down specific portions of the 2002 McCain-Feingold Act, and overruled portions of McConnell v. Federal Election Commission (2003), and Austin v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce (1990), and that's it.

The portion of McCain-Feingold was struck down (and in turn the portion of McConnell v. Federal Election Commission was reversed) because it was found to be inconsistent, in that it in banning ads 30 days prior to elections, the law created one set of rules for media corporations and separate set for all others. They found that no such arbitrary distinction could be justified constitutionally, and as a result that portion of the law was struck down. For similar reasons it reversed Austin v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce which created an arbitrary separation between corporations paying for ads out of their treasuries as opposed to having to establish a separate, segregated fund for political expenditures. It did not however in any way challenge the ability of the government limit the amount of political expenditures, nor did it overturn laws against foreign entities making contributions to US political campaigns.

Effectively in the main part of the decision the court said it's a violation of free speech to pass a law that says in the 30 days prior to an election Fox News news can spend hours and hours editorializing while the ACLU is prohibited from even airing a 30 second commercial. The real irony of the current yelling and screaming about the decision is that the groups who will primarily benefit from the decision are not large corporations, who rely primarily on directly lobbying elected officials and for whom it's extremely dangerous fiscally to weigh in directly to the public on a divisive issue, but rather unions, trade organizations, and political advocacy groups like the aforementioned ACLU (which was one of the groups which had filed in support of Citizens United in this case).
 

Frank Ernest

New member
Hall of Fame
I saw Obama trying to appeal to the right wing to participate in legislation rather than acting as a bunch of obstructionist jerks.
Now, that's a persuasive argument! :darwinsm: It appears that the "obstructionist jerks" have been attempting to participate all along. BUT, it is difficult to participate in closed-door meetings with "Democrats ONLY" signs on the door. Making participation even more difficult is the routine dismissal of "obstructionist jerk" ideas and amendments to legislation. And then there are even more "obstructionist jerks" who are routinely dismissed as "angry right-wing extremists" by the socialists/communists who currently inhabit the halls of power.

Nice try, Dave. Hey! Maybe you can follow the Iranian Way. Hang a few of them. By golly, that'll keep 'em in line. :rotfl:
 

bybee

New member
So true!

So true!

Now, that's a persuasive argument! :darwinsm: It appears that the "obstructionist jerks" have been attempting to participate all along. BUT, it is difficult to participate in closed-door meetings with "Democrats ONLY" signs on the door. Making participation even more difficult is the routine dismissal of "obstructionist jerk" ideas and amendments to legislation. And then there are even more "obstructionist jerks" who are routinely dismissed as "angry right-wing extremists" by the socialists/communists who currently inhabit the halls of power.

Nice try, Dave. Hey! Maybe you can follow the Iranian Way. Hang a few of them. By golly, that'll keep 'em in line. :rotfl:

Yeah! Or roll a tank over them, the Chinese way? Oooooooh how the shoe pinches when it's on the other foot! bybee
 

greatdivide46

New member
I didn't watch. I'm not a big SOTU guy and usually don't watch. Most of what I heard in analysis (which isn't much so far) is that it was a decent speech but not that great and won't be that effective or change anything.
That's me, too. One commentator said it sounded like the speech was written prior to Brown's victory in Massachusetts and then changed because of that victory. But the change was so obvious that it sounded like the speech was cobbled together from various parts of the previously written one and came across as very disjointed. However, Obama's delivery of it was good!! :)
 

nicholsmom

New member
The republicans had an approach? I sure didn't hear anything about it.
Why am I not surprised that you didn't hear anything about it? :rolleyes: The mainstream media certainly didn't want to report on the common sense ideas coming from the right.
as far as I'm concerned the house bill was about as "fix what's broken" as you can get.
And throw in all the stuff that isn't as well. The only thing that is broken about health care is the cost - not the care itself. The USA has fantastic health care - loads of doctors and specialists from which to choose, unparalleled technology, accurate testing, extremely short waiting periods for needed surgeries, procedures and therapies, only minutes or hours (as opposed to days, weeks, or months) of waiting for emergency care, outlets for critical care (stitches, antibiotics, and the like). Why does the gov't want to mess with all of that stuff that is working beautifully?

It's not as if it was ACTUALLY a government takeover of healthcare (the real left didn't like it and even less the senate version). And STILL no republicans voted for it.
It is a violation of the 10th amendment, among other Constitutional violations. That anyone voted for it shows how little regard they have for the limitations of government imposed by that Constitution.

No republican administration has EVER proposed reform on their own.
:smokie: Smokin' again, I see. Have a look on the net and quit bowing to the mainstream media.

Simply allowing people to buy insurance across state lines is like putting a band aid on a 10 inch gash.
It's a beginning, and I never suggested that one or two things will be enough - I gave examples of some of the things that have been suggested. It's like eating an elephant one bite at a time. There is no sense in swallowing the beast whole. Let's implement a few common sense reforms and see how it goes - it's bound to get better at least a little. Then we can look again to see what else we can do to make things better.

We need more than that. The health care system is far more broken than you give it credit for.
It isn't as though all the hospitals are going to shut down or all the critical care outlets. There is no mass exodus of doctors out of the Union nor nurses turning to welding or ditch-digging. People continue to get outstanding care; doctors and hospitals are managing; the technology continues to advance; new drugs are still being developed and tested. I simply don't think that a bunch of illegal aliens not having health insurance is a crisis, nor do I think that forcing people, who will not benefit from it and cannot afford it, to purchase (think of that for a moment - the national government forcing the purchase of any product or service :dead:) health insurance will help anyone. Honestly, before my husband got a job that paid the premiums, we found it much cheaper to just pay for services out of pocket - the premiums were far and away more than any amount we would ever get out of them. If we are ever in that situation again, we will want to find a high-deductible, low cost, emergencies-only type of insurance. That kind of insurance would ensure that costs in excess of our ability to pay - unforeseen tragedies - will be paid, won't break the budget, and is an encouragement to us to mind our health - to live a healthy lifestyle, limiting health risks. The only trouble is, there aren't any really cheap ones in our state. I'd surely love to be able to buy one from a state that has them. That would save me bundles, and assisting smooth interstate commerce is among the federal government's Constitutional duties :banana:
 

bybee

New member
Agreed!

Agreed!

Why am I not surprised that you didn't hear anything about it? :rolleyes: The mainstream media certainly didn't want to report on the common sense ideas coming from the right.
And throw in all the stuff that isn't as well. The only thing that is broken about health care is the cost - not the care itself. The USA has fantastic health care - loads of doctors and specialists from which to choose, unparalleled technology, accurate testing, extremely short waiting periods for needed surgeries, procedures and therapies, only minutes or hours (as opposed to days, weeks, or months) of waiting for emergency care, outlets for critical care (stitches, antibiotics, and the like). Why does the gov't want to mess with all of that stuff that is working beautifully?

It is a violation of the 10th amendment, among other Constitutional violations. That anyone voted for it shows how little regard they have for the limitations of government imposed by that Constitution.

:smokie: Smokin' again, I see. Have a look on the net and quit bowing to the mainstream media.

It's a beginning, and I never suggested that one or two things will be enough - I gave examples of some of the things that have been suggested. It's like eating an elephant one bite at a time. There is no sense in swallowing the beast whole. Let's implement a few common sense reforms and see how it goes - it's bound to get better at least a little. Then we can look again to see what else we can do to make things better.

It isn't as though all the hospitals are going to shut down or all the critical care outlets. There is no mass exodus of doctors out of the Union nor nurses turning to welding or ditch-digging. People continue to get outstanding care; doctors and hospitals are managing; the technology continues to advance; new drugs are still being developed and tested. I simply don't think that a bunch of illegal aliens not having health insurance is a crisis, nor do I think that forcing people, who will not benefit from it and cannot afford it, to purchase (think of that for a moment - the national government forcing the purchase of any product or service :dead:) health insurance will help anyone. Honestly, before my husband got a job that paid the premiums, we found it much cheaper to just pay for services out of pocket - the premiums were far and away more than any amount we would ever get out of them. If we are ever in that situation again, we will want to find a high-deductible, low cost, emergencies-only type of insurance. That kind of insurance would ensure that costs in excess of our ability to pay - unforeseen tragedies - will be paid, won't break the budget, and is an encouragement to us to mind our health - to live a healthy lifestyle, limiting health risks. The only trouble is, there aren't any really cheap ones in our state. I'd surely love to be able to buy one from a state that has them. That would save me bundles, and assisting smooth interstate commerce is among the federal government's Constitutional duties :banana:

You go girl! Well said. bybee
 

nicholsmom

New member
I keep hearing that things can be done that will actually help. Yet, that's the only thing I ever hear suggested.

The idea gets promoted by many Republicans like it's the magic key to fixing health care.

That's not a bill, it's a Post-It note.

Do a little research, man. It isn't even hard when you have Google :rolleyes:

Here's a little hand-holding for you:

Enough of this nonsense about the GOP not contributing.
 

nicholsmom

New member
Now, that's a persuasive argument! :darwinsm: It appears that the "obstructionist jerks" have been attempting to participate all along. BUT, it is difficult to participate in closed-door meetings with "Democrats ONLY" signs on the door. Making participation even more difficult is the routine dismissal of "obstructionist jerk" ideas and amendments to legislation. And then there are even more "obstructionist jerks" who are routinely dismissed as "angry right-wing extremists" by the socialists/communists who currently inhabit the halls of power.

Nice try, Dave. Hey! Maybe you can follow the Iranian Way. Hang a few of them. By golly, that'll keep 'em in line. :rotfl:

:thumb:

I wonder: If I continually stop my 4-year-old from stealing snacks out of the pantry, am I an obstructionist? What if I just put a lock on the door? :chuckle:
 

Ecumenicist

New member
Now, that's a persuasive argument! :darwinsm: It appears that the "obstructionist jerks" have been attempting to participate all along. BUT, it is difficult to participate in closed-door meetings with "Democrats ONLY" signs on the door. Making participation even more difficult is the routine dismissal of "obstructionist jerk" ideas and amendments to legislation. And then there are even more "obstructionist jerks" who are routinely dismissed as "angry right-wing extremists" by the socialists/communists who currently inhabit the halls of power.

Nice try, Dave. Hey! Maybe you can follow the Iranian Way. Hang a few of them. By golly, that'll keep 'em in line. :rotfl:

Right wing input and compromise is the reason the healthcare bill (and medicare) is the mess it is now, sending taxpayer money to private insurance companies. Sorry if Dems are tired of catering to a bunch of "death panel" reactionist liars who are bought and paid for by the private insurance industry.

As a Christian, I am a pacifist. I'll leave it to your automatic weapon toting teabagging right wing obstructionist jerk types to threaten and commit violence in the name of Christ and democracy.
 
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