toldailytopic: Now that homosexuality has become socially and legally acceptable what

[Uberpod1]

That doesn't address what I said.

If a woman willingly joins the profession and can leave at any point explain how she is being "exploited."

What if we find that close to eighty percent of prostitutes have sexual abuse in their past?

 

[Town Heretic]

What if we find that close to eighty percent of prostitutes have sexual abuse in their past?

That goes a long way toward explaining Congress. lain:

 

[bybee]

That goes a long way toward explaining Congress. lain:

May well be!:chuckle:

 

[IMJerusha]

I imagine, like many professions, one may not leave without some scars.

Prostitution is not a profession. And for most, there is no "leaving" it unless one leaves in a body bag.

 

[bybee]

Prostitution is not a profession. And for most, there is no "leaving" it unless one leaves in a body bag.

Agreed. I was responding in kind to the fact that Prostitution has been labeled "the oldest profession in the world". This is, of course, a misnomer.

 

[PureX]

That doesn't address what I said.

If a woman willingly joins the profession and can leave at any point explain how she is being "exploited."

It addresses it very well. You would claim that prostitution is not exploitation; that it's just another business decision, and yet you certainly would not want your wife or daughter to engage in such business. Why not?

The reason is that you know in your heart that they would be selling something that is fundamental to their being, and that in doing so they will be personally diminished. Not only in their own eyes, and in the eyes of their community, but in your eyes, as well.

And that's why prostitution is exploitation, regardless of consent. Same as child labor is, abusive and exploitive pornography is, and any other exploitive labor practices are.

 

[IMJerusha]

What if we find that close to eighty percent of prostitutes have sexual abuse in their past?

A study I read not too long ago, stated that once the word "abuse" was explained to them, because they didn't know what it meant or entailed, about 57% of the 130 prostitutes interviewed reported childhood abuse. Of the 130 interviewed, 46% reported rape by customers after entering prostitution. The rest entered prostitution as a result of rape and PTSD. Folks need to stop thinking of prostitution as a profession women willingly enter into. It's also not something one can just casually walk away from.

Farley, Melissa, PhD and Barkan, Howard, DrPH "Prostitution, Violence Against Women,and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder"Women & Health 27 (3): 37-49. The Haworth Press, Inc. 1998

 

[IMJerusha]

Agreed. I was responding in kind to the fact that Prostitution has been labeled "the oldest profession in the world". This is, of course, a misnomer.

Amen!

 

[Angel4Truth]

It addresses it very well. You would claim that prostitution is not exploitation; that it's just another business decision, and yet you certainly would not want your wife or daughter to engage in such business. Why not?

The reason is that you know in your heart that they would be selling something that is fundamental to their being, and that in doing so they will be personally diminished. Not only in their own eyes, and in the eyes of their community, but in your eyes, as well.

And that's why prostitution is exploitation, regardless of consent. Same as child labor is, abusive and exploitive pornography is, and any other exploitive labor practices are.

Excellent point, if its no big deal and just a job, why not wife or daughter granite?

Id like to know your response too.

 

[noguru]

A study I read not too long ago, stated that once the word "abuse" was explained to them, because they didn't know what it meant or entailed, about 57% of the 130 prostitutes interviewed reported childhood abuse. Of the 130 interviewed, 46% reported rape by customers after entering prostitution. The rest entered prostitution as a result of rape and PTSD. Folks need to stop thinking of prostitution as a profession women willingly enter into. It's also not something one can just casually walk away from.

Farley, Melissa, PhD and Barkan, Howard, DrPH "Prostitution, Violence Against Women,and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder"Women & Health 27 (3): 37-49. The Haworth Press, Inc. 1998

I agree that is usually why women enter into prostitution. Do you think their cutomers should be punished more then? Problem is prostitution is a cycle of abuse once it is started. The johns try to abuse the women, and the women try to abuse their johns right back for the most part.

 

[resurrected]

Wasn't there an Olympic swimmer or runner recently who was in the news for signing up as a Las Vegas "escort"?

What was her name?

 

[resurrected]

Google am yer friend :chuckle:

Olympian Suzy Favor Hamilton reveals she worked as a Las Vegas escort

I realize I have made highly irrational choices and I take full responsibility for them. I am not a victim here and knew what I was doing. I was drawn to escorting in large part because it provided many coping mechanisms for me when I was going through a very challenging time with my marriage and my life. It provided an escape from a life that I was struggling in. It was a double life.

I do not expect people to understand, but the reasons for doing this made sense to me at the time and were very much related to depression. As crazy as I know it seems, I never thought I would be exposed, therefore never hurting anybody. I have been seeking the help of a psychologist for the past few weeks and will continue to do so after I have put things together. I cannot emphasize enough how sorry I am to anyone I have hurt as a result of my actions and greatly appreciate the support from family and those closest to me. I fully intend to make amends and get back to being a good mother, wife, daughter, and friend.

 

[Quincy]

I don't believe you can compare data from the prostitutes doing the act illegally with the ones doing it legally. That's just comparing apples and oranges. That's like saying legal breweries are guilty of the same thing as bootleggers.

As for any member of my family or any of my friends, if they wanted to work in a legal brothel, it wouldn't bother me.

When it comes to a "Las Vegas Escort" Clark county has more than 400k people residing there, so prostitution is illegal in that county in the state of Nevada.

 

[noguru]

There is legal prostitution it is called "sex surrogacy". A person has to have educational qualifications and a license as a therapist to do that legally. Marylin Chambers was a porn star who also became a sex surrogate/therapist.

 

[Granite]

It addresses it very well. You would claim that prostitution is not exploitation; that it's just another business decision, and yet you certainly would not want your wife or daughter to engage in such business. Why not?

I wouldn't want my wife or hypothetical daughter to engage in several businesses, among them meth distribution, joining a nunnery, or owning the New York Jets. In the case of my wife, her working in a brothel would of course be a violation of our wedding vows. In the case of my hypothetical daughter? Knowing myself and her mother, she'd have a lot of smarts (and, dare I say, good looks) and could easily excel in other endeavors. Turning tricks would be a waste of her time and talent.

The reason is that you know in your heart that they would be selling something that is fundamental to their being, and that in doing so they will be personally diminished. Not only in their own eyes, and in the eyes of their community, but in your eyes, as well.

In this situation, yes, there'd be a personal element to it. But that's not enough for me to stand in the way of legalizing the most basic, the most essential, of interpersonal trade. I think cocaine use diminishes people, too, but that doesn't mean I support its prohibition. (I think organized religion is quite destructive as well. You can see my point, I think.)

And that's why prostitution is exploitation, regardless of consent.

Well then we simply disagree.

 

[IMJerusha]

I agree that is usually why women enter into prostitution. Do you think their cutomers should be punished more then? Problem is prostitution is a cycle of abuse once it is started. The johns try to abuse the women, and the women try to abuse their johns right back for the most part.

I would say that law enforcement has their hands full with governmental and societal pressures when it comes to street prostitution. Trafficking females is a whole different ballgame although it's estimated that about a third of street prostitution comprises trafficked females. The overlap of these creates protocol issues. In terms of prosecution, ongoing studies such as the one I posted, have opened the eyes of the court system more and more.

In the US, approximately nine prostitutes are arrested for every customer. About 70 to 80 thousand individuals selling sex are arrested every year. Customers get away with the purchase much more than they should, in my estimation, and typically their arrest is associated with something other than the purchase. I used to have this discussion with my Dad all the time. He would say that just arresting sex purveyors costs the tax payers about 200 million per annum. Imagine how much more it would cost to arrest all the johns as well? My attitude always was that if the demand were cut off (no pun intended) the supply would go away. His response: not feasible. Are you getting my point about the governmental and societal pressures on law enforcement?

 

[PureX]

In this situation, yes, there'd be a personal element to it. But that's not enough for me to stand in the way of legalizing the most basic, the most essential, of interpersonal trade. I think cocaine use diminishes people, too, but that doesn't mean I support its prohibition. (I think organized religion is quite destructive as well. You can see my point, I think.)

I do, but there has to be some sort of delineation between personal freedom and the freedom to exploit people's weaknesses. Would it be OK to beat someone violently so long as they consent to it for money? How about flat out torture, or even to kill them? Are all things allowed so long as we can find someone so in need of money that they will agree to anything we desire?

I don't think so. But where do we draw the line? Prostitution is basically either rape, robbery, or both, isn't it? It's a form of rape if the prostitute wouldn't otherwise have wanted to have sex, and it's a form of robbery if s/he would have done so without the payment. Either way, one or both participants is being exploited.

 

[bybee]

I do, but there has to be some sort of delineation between personal freedom and the freedom to exploit people's weaknesses. Would it be OK to beat someone violently so long as they consent to it for money? How about flat out torture, or even to kill them? Are all things allowed so long as we can find someone so in need of money that they will agree to anything we desire?

I don't think so. But where do we draw the line? Prostitution is basically either rape, robbery, or both, isn't it? It's a form of rape if the prostitute wouldn't otherwise have wanted to have sex, and it's a form of robbery if s/he would have done so without the payment. Either way, one or both participants is being exploited.

I feel this way about boxing and some professional sports. To watch someone being pounded witless is sickening to me.

 

[Granite]

I do, but there has to be some sort of delineation between personal freedom and the freedom to exploit people's weaknesses.

What about the freedom to exploit your own weakness?

Would it be OK to beat someone violently so long as they consent to it for money?

Yes. Then again, I'm an NFL fan, so you're probably asking the wrong guy.

How about flat out torture, or even to kill them?

One man's torture is another man's tryst. How are we defining consensual torture? Vanilla S&M? Hardcore BDSM?

Are all things allowed so long as we can find someone so in need of money that they will agree to anything we desire?

When there's consent involved, and when such actions don't threaten the public welfare, I find it hard to object in good conscience.

I don't think so. But where do we draw the line? Prostitution is basically either rape, robbery, or both, isn't it?

Illegal prostitution certainly is and can be. Legalized prostitution is not, as far as I can see. It's a transaction, ideally with some pleasure involved.

It's a form of rape if the prostitute wouldn't otherwise have wanted to have sex, and it's a form of robbery if s/he would have done so without the payment.

Legalization prevents both of these outcomes. Try walking out of a Nevada brothel without paying up. I doubt you'd make it very far.

 

[PureX]

What about the freedom to exploit your own weakness?

What about it? Do you think there is ever a point at which other people must step in? Is the self-destructive insanity of an addiction or an obsession really a 'choice'? Is schizophrenia? If I am allowed to drink myself to death with alcohol, should I be allowed to drink myself to death with Drano? Would I be any less insane in doing that than the people we institutionalize for other forms of insanity?

I'm asking because I think we do need to make distinctions, here, based on some reasonable propositions. I believe strongly in individual freedom, but I do not believe that such freedom is absolute. One obvious limitation is when our freedom effects others. But what about when we endanger, hurt, and permanently harm ourselves?

One man's torture is another man's tryst. How are we defining consensual torture? Vanilla S&M? Hardcore BDSM?

Good questions. But don't you think there must be SOME sort of limitation to the abuse of other human beings we could coerce?

When there's consent involved, and when such actions don't threaten the public welfare, I find it hard to object in good conscience.

So it is a matter of conscience, then? But if defending personal freedom (for ourselves and others) is a matter of conscience, and protecting other human beings from abuse and exploitation is also a matter of conscience, how do you/we weight the one against the other?

Illegal prostitution certainly is and can be. Legalized prostitution is not, as far as I can see. It's a transaction, ideally with some pleasure involved.

Legalization prevents both of these outcomes. Try walking out of a Nevada brothel without paying up. I doubt you'd make it very far.

I don't understand why you differentiate between legal and illegal prostitution. Why is one any different from another when both are consensual?