toldailytopic: Liberals or conservatives? Whose values closer resemble the spirit of

[Rusha]

I don't rep anyone based on the person but by the post.

If a friend dear to me posted something that I find offensive, I would post a neg rep.

Both you Rusha and Bybee share similiar views to mine on some topics and opposite views on others I am sure.
It isn't the opposing view that I have a problem with but the misinformation and negative conotations that go with remarks being said.
When telling someone that you don't "...give half-a-rat's-tail what a Brit thinks makes an American tick!", it is completely undermining their opinion as if it has no worth.
Now if an argument was made to support an opposing view, it wouldn't undermine the opinion but recognize it and possibly start an intriguing discussion.
That is after all the point of this forum isn't it?

In the end, no one's opinion should be deemed unworthy.
If there is misinformation, correct it.
If there is a substantiated reason to oppose it, then state so and the reasons, but don't tell the person their opinion doesn't matter because they're not American.

Bybee wasn't the person who brought up opinions by non-Americans. That was MrRadish ... someone I think highly of even though we disagree on many topics.

However, you are reading too much into Bybee's comment. As an American, I also give less consideration to what someone from another country says about the DP or gun laws. Why? Not because I view them as inferior, but because they do NOT live in our country and our experiences may be different. What works for them, may be great. Not so much for us.

 

[ebenz47037]

Not just for being "crabby" but for misrepresenting us Americans. We actually do care about how we portray ourselves.
We want to be someone other countries look up to.
Right now, with your attitude, it represents us Americans as shallow and uncaring for our neighbors.

I won't be represented that way.
You don't speak for all American's.

I've gotten bad reps for no reason other than a "loser" comment before but I don't complain, I just shrug and move on.

Wow! Just wow! You "won't be represented that way?" How big a loser are you? She spoke her mind. Just because she said it doesn't mean that she's speaking for all of America. What next? Are you going to neg rep Knight for being intolerant?

 

[Sherman]

Politics in the modern construct, whether it identifies itself as liberal or conservative bears little resemblance to the spirit of the founding Fathers. The dividing line between 'conservative' and 'liberal' is actually a very thin line. Both have very similar underlying motives--their pocketbook. It has became a system by Government, for the Government and of Government.

American Government was originally founded to throw off the tyranny of the King of England. The British empire ruled the colonies with an iron fist.

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..

These men had the best interest of the colonists in mind when they wrote this declaration. Now to some of the more grievous ills the colonists suffered at the hands of the King of England: Quotes from the Declaration of Independance.

"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance."

"He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people."

"He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation."

"He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands."

Source

This is quite different from what our politicians quibble about today. Today they talk about budget and what little special interest group wants a cut of the pie. It's been years since this country has had a great leader.

 

[John Mortimer]

Not just for being "crabby" but for misrepresenting us Americans. We actually do care about how we portray ourselves.
We want to be someone other countries look up to.
Right now, with your attitude, it represents us Americans as shallow and uncaring for our neighbors.

I won't be represented that way.
You don't speak for all American's.

Hey Warren, speaking as a "Brit" I think Lady Gaga is a very high profile representative of America... how about that?! :thumb:

Ah yes, the Lady makes things better! :cloud9:

 

[warren clark]

Hey Warren, speaking as a "Brit" I think Lady Gaga is a very high profile representative of America... how about that?! :thumb:

Ah yes, the Lady makes things better! :cloud9:

:ha:! <3

 

[warren clark]

Wow! Just wow! You "won't be represented that way?" How big a loser are you? She spoke her mind. Just because she said it doesn't mean that she's speaking for all of America. What next? Are you going to neg rep Knight for being intolerant?

As an American its okay to go out of your way to just tell someone their opinion doesn't matter?
It was a very prejudice move to point out to someone that their opinion doesn't matter because they are not American.
A comment like that is depricating to America.

 

[warren clark]

Bybee wasn't the person who brought up opinions by non-Americans. That was MrRadish ... someone I think highly of even though we disagree on many topics.

However, you are reading too much into Bybee's comment. As an American, I also give less consideration to what someone from another country says about the DP or gun laws. Why? Not because I view them as inferior, but because they do NOT live in our country and our experiences may be different. What works for them, may be great. Not so much for us.

I would give a great deal what someone outside the country thinks. We are suppost to be about the American dream. Freedom, Liberty, and Justic for all. But there hasn't been much of that.
Gaining a new perspective might actually help us.
Shutting someone out because they aren't from the country is just depricating to the American reputation.
Its already soiled, why make it worse?

I went to the Dominican Republic and the usual Americans that go through their were rich and usually arrived by cruise.
They had a prejudice formed by the rich that we are generally snobs.
When my group went to help with "missionary like" work, where we helped work on different projects, etc. they had a nasty impression of us until we left and realized we weren't all snobs.

 

[Rusha]

I went to the Dominican Republic and the usual Americans that go through their were rich and usually arrived by cruise.
They had a prejudice formed by the rich that we are generally snobs.
When my group went to help with "missionary like" work, where we helped work on different projects, etc. they had a nasty impression of us until we left and realized we weren't all snobs.

Did it ever occur to you perhaps those you ran across in the Dominican Republic were the one's with the bias?

 

[bybee]

I would give a great deal what someone outside the country thinks. We are suppost to be about the American dream. Freedom, Liberty, and Justic for all. But there hasn't been much of that.
Gaining a new perspective might actually help us.
Shutting someone out because they aren't from the country is just depricating to the American reputation.
Its already soiled, why make it worse?

I went to the Dominican Republic and the usual Americans that go through their were rich and usually arrived by cruise.
They had a prejudice formed by the rich that we are generally snobs.
When my group went to help with "missionary like" work, where we helped work on different projects, etc. they had a nasty impression of us until we left and realized we weren't all snobs.

I'm not going to apologize to anyone for being an American!
You, an American, went to The Dominican Republic to help the people there in time of need. Do you read the news? American's are among the most generous, caring and thoughtful people you will find.
How many foreigners offer assistance to us in time of need?
Poor people in this country generally regard the rich people in this country as snobs too.

 

[Ktoyou]

Consider John Locke and John Stewart Mill
Consider the puritans, who left England, went to Holland, then came to New England
Consider George Washington and Alexander Hamilton, compared to Thomas Jefferson and James Madison.
Consider the emphasis on individual liberty
Consider the writings of Alexis de Tocqueville

It spells out classical liberalism, today considered conservative. Freedom from state sponsored church. Freedom of speech and rights to bear arms.

I would say it was paleolibertarian and Burkean conservatism, peppered with antimajoritarianism.

 

[Sherman]

Not just for being "crabby" but for misrepresenting us Americans.

Neg Repping Bybee? You have some serious issues if you neg rep her. She is very easy to get along with. She is nice to everyone including those she disagrees with. I try to be nice even to disagreeable posters, but you are trying my patience.

 

[rexlunae]

I don't see how the question can be answered one way or the other even just for one issue at one point. Even the early years of US history had a great deal of difference, even between major well-know founders Take Adams, Hamilton, and Washington versus Jefferson and Madison, for instance. The former were more supporters of what we would call "big government", relatively, and the later were more "small-government" types. You could try to line those up and approximate, or you could just admit that Revolutionary-era politics were in some ways much less settled than what we have today.