toldailytopic: Judicial Corporal Punishment.

[lucy]

Flogging, I don't know....

Part of the problem here, is were want people to change their behavior and people are fallen. They are not going to change because this has to occur at the level of the soul/spirit/mind/character of the person. This does not happen without salvation. That being said, of course people are not going to become Christians just because we want them too, and you can't' force it on people. So, what do we do?

I do NOT agree with what is being done now, as someone else said, because we basically reward criminals for criminal behavior and in effect punish those who are not criminals. Why do we allow free college ed. to criminals in prison when we won't do that for good kids? Crazy. Why do we allow gyms and muscle- building for criminals who hurt people? So they can be even better at it when then get out? Crazy. Why do we think we can "rehabilitate" human beings apart from Christ? Crazy.

So, maybe we do need to look at other societies to see what actually does work, apart from going into a society that is a police state or adopting punishments that are inhumane.

 

[Egbert]

Won't happen. Punishment of this sort won't undo what was done, it will make them wish they hadn't done it.

Again, the degree to which you are correct depends on the severity of the punishment. If relatively light, it could become an attraction for attention seekers. (My comment on sadomasochists was mostly tongue-in-cheek.) If crippling/fatal, it would be a major deterrent.

 

[kmoney]

I think it's hard to argue that prison is any kind of deterrant. That is pretty much a joke. I remember reading in the papers last year a case where a teacher had molested a student at a school, was convicted and sent to prison. A year later, another teacher at the same school did the same thing! The second teacher knew all about the case of the first teacher! Did it deter him? Not the least bit! And the kicker? That guy was sent to prison as well. A year later.... the school principal molested a child at that school! He was fully aware of both of the other cases! Did he give a rat's tuchis? Not in the slightest. No deterrance, whatsoever.

I think the bottom line is that most criminals don't think much about the punishment before committing a crime. I'm not saying that prison actually is a major deterrent because I'm not sure how much of one it is, but I don't think you can list a few instances like this and say it's not at all. People commit crimes because they don't think they will get caught, regardless of the punishment.

Your victim and his/her family pays for your free room & board, entertainment, etc. This is not justice.

I think we shouldn't focus too much on "justice" because in so many circumstances I don't think we can really get at it. For thefts, simple restitution can be seen as justice, I think, but in many other cases it's not so easy.

On the other hand, flogging is a huge deterrant to crime. Just ask anyone who has been flogged in a country where they do that, such as in Thailand. I have read interviews with such people, where they were asked if they would ever commit such a crime again, and their response was basically incredulity that anyone would even ask them that. "Are you kidding? I would never even think of doing that again!!!"

It might be a good deterrent for those who have committed crimes and received the beatings, but how much of a deterrent is it for others?

It'd be interesting to see some statistics on this.

You take your whacks, it hurts a lot, it leaves a mark, you get better, and you live your life as a productive member of society. Believe it or not, it is not barbaric at all.

What is barbaric is caging people like animals, and then acting shocked when they act like animals. Bewailing recidivism rates, while maintaining crime schools called "prisons" at taxpayer expense. And then doing ubiquitous "plea bargaining" in the justice system because the prisons are overcrowded, except that those plea bargains only encourage more and more crime, and fuller and fuller prisons. It's a never-ending spiral right into a hole in the ground. It is insanity. That is barbaric. What we have today in America is what is barbaric. There's no two ways about it.

I don't really want to get into defining what is barbaric or not, but I do agree that the current prison system seems to be broken. And overused. Many things can be taken care of without sending people to prisons.

 

[kmoney]

I do NOT agree with what is being done now, as someone else said, because we basically reward criminals for criminal behavior and in effect punish those who are not criminals. Why do we allow free college ed. to criminals in prison when we won't do that for good kids? Crazy. Why do we allow gyms and muscle- building for criminals who hurt people? So they can be even better at it when then get out? Crazy.

Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard [that], he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Why do we think we can "rehabilitate" human beings apart from Christ? Crazy.

Because it's been done. :idunno:

Not every non-Christians is a criminal.

 

[Jacob]

If someone commits a crime, what is just? The Bible has answers to this question.

I think in general we would rather not be punished ourselves. Some of us might like to see others punished.

Aren't we all deserving of something for our sin?

Shalom,

Jacob

 

[nicholsmom]

I think that if there were significant response to petty crimes there would be fewer big-time criminals. Prison, for the most part, only hardens the petty criminal into worse criminals.

As a mom, I have found that swift and "terrible" (in the mind of the child) punishment brings a child to a point of ever improving self control. I wonder what the statistics are on the age of most petty criminals. I think that when teens commit crimes, they have shown themselves to be beyond the control or influence of their parents (unless the parents have taught them to be criminals :shut and so ought to be taken from them. Trouble is, where then would they go? Who would raise them properly? It is a sure bet that a government agency would fail badly. Perhaps private organizations could compete for the job of rehabilitating these petty criminals - there could be other privately-owned organizations to tally up the effectiveness of these rehabilitation companies. There would need to be local oversight to ensure no ties between the rehab companies and those who rate them, and the local judges could match a rehab to the criminal based on ratings and specialties.

It might just give a bunch of neglected teens a chance at a decent life and save our criminal justice system a boat load of future cases.

 

[Jacob]

If someone commits a crime, what is just? The Bible has answers to this question.

I think in general we would rather not be punished ourselves. Some of us might like to see others punished.

Aren't we all deserving of something for our sin?

Shalom,

Jacob

Shalom.

I do not want to see others punished. I think no one should sin. Sin is transgression of God's Law. It is important to obey God. The Torah, the Law, is God's instruction to us. As a Jew I know this. I am thankful that I do. I hope that others would see this in God's Law as well.

I believe I must have misread the OP before, or answered in kind. But if God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, we should not either. It does not mean no one will die, hopefully no one will, but it does mean that death is not the desired end or purpose for anyone.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[ok doser]

toldailytopic: Judicial Corporal Punishment.

I'm all for it!


judges who pervert God's Law should be publicly flogged! :thumb:


along with lawyers :thumb::thumb:

 

[Jacob]

I'm all for it!


judges who pervert God's Law should be publicly flogged! :thumb:


along with lawyers :thumb::thumb:

Shalom.

We need to realize or recognize that God has put judges and lawyers where they are, for the benefit of society. The individual should learn of God with every decision that they make, since they were appointed by God.

Shalom.

Jacob