Arthur Brain
Well-known member
So your prerequisite for immorality is whether a substance is mind altering?
toldailytopic: Is it immoral to smoke Marijuana?
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So your prerequisite for immorality is whether a substance is mind altering?
PyramidHead
Active member
Firstly I don't understand why you think a person can just have a beer but has to smoke a whole joint. You know they sell one-hitters, with which you can pack one hit and be done? Small pipes? You can just take a few, and then it's a relaxant as well (actually it's a relaxant either way
) Secondly, alcohol does alter the mind. It does alter it very much. And your argument that it can be used moderately doesn't work, since a lot a LOT of people use it in excess. And I don't know why you say it's whole purpose is to alter the mind when it's being sold and smoked medicinally.Cigarettes give you a very powerful body and head buzz when you first start smoking. A buzz qualifies as altering the mind, right?
LOL!:first: post today. Your post just got Subscriber POTD.
PyramidHead
Active member
Drug dealers always vote 'no' on bills to legalize marijuana!
Mr.Razorblades
New member
Yeah, let's ignore the direct effects that nicotine has on neurotransmiters., that's the ticket.
Being a Dutch National living in The Netherlands this is a topic I don't feel shy discussing. I used many substances that are forbidden in most countries and never felt I was doing anything wrong. But I can tell you from experience that Marijuana is not as harmless as one would think it is. We all know what it does to one's mind (pleasant as it might be for a short while), but it can have a nasty side effect on your blood sugar level ev'ry time you use it upto the point that your sugar level will have a problem remaining stable even when you stopped using.
I tell who the stoners are on here. They start splitting hairs to justify their habit. The gays do the same thing.
My son tried pot once. It turned him into a wimpering paranoid. He said never again. That is whole lot different than just a head buzz.
The medicinal value of pot has never been proven. I am not too keen on medical marijuana for that reason.
The purpose of smoking it is to get high- not feel a buzz. I have dealt with people high on the drug before. They are not themselves. I had a woman living with my family that was a regular user. I watched her mental status deteriorate over the years. She did some very bizarre things while I knew her, including punching a hole through the drywall of my house then blaming it on her son.
Do drunks do dumb things--yes. But moderate alcohol use does not make you drunk or even make you hallucinate like this woman in my home did on pot.
Recreational drug use should never be legal.
My son tried pot once. It turned him into a wimpering paranoid. He said never again. That is whole lot different than just a head buzz.
The medicinal value of pot has never been proven. I am not too keen on medical marijuana for that reason.
The purpose of smoking it is to get high- not feel a buzz. I have dealt with people high on the drug before. They are not themselves. I had a woman living with my family that was a regular user. I watched her mental status deteriorate over the years. She did some very bizarre things while I knew her, including punching a hole through the drywall of my house then blaming it on her son.
Do drunks do dumb things--yes. But moderate alcohol use does not make you drunk or even make you hallucinate like this woman in my home did on pot.
Recreational drug use should never be legal.
Squishes
New member
Almost any substance is harmful in excess. I submit that constant marijuana usage is safer/healthier than constant dining at McDonalds.
:noid: what if you do both?
Squishes
New member
"I once knew someone who did drugs and then did bad things. Thus drugs should be illegal for everyone."
Spousal abuse cannot be found outside of marriage, so marriage should be illegal.
PyramidHead
Active member
HAHAHAHA oh my GOD you are either making this up or know some weird people. Let me tell you some things:
I hallucinated when I smoked pot. Not like seeing things that weren't there, but misinterpreting information. My third time smoking it was a nightmare that I never want to repeat. Sort of like how my first time drinking I wound up ... You don't want to know ;p
Your son probably had a weak tolerance and smoked to much and freaked out, maybe because you caught him being all high and got scared because he knows you're crazy when it comes to pot. That woman probably had some other issues. You know people can be on more than one thing, right? Like say PCP or another actual hallucinogen?
It has been proven to help with pain, it has proven to help with glaucoma, it has been proven to help with anxiety, what hasn't been proven?
Drunks kill people when they drive
And even if recreational use of drugs is never legal, it will always be available in the streets to the people who want it, whether you like it or not
PyramidHead
Active member
*Is fine with the selling of pure grain alcohol, everclear and Bicardi 151*
*Disparage marijuana as a serious and powerful drug from hell*
*Disparage marijuana as a serious and powerful drug from hell*
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I'm not a 'stoner', and this has nothing to do with 'splitting hairs' and even less to do with gays....
What exactly is a buzz if not a form of being high? Where does it start being immoral to have another glass of wine? Mild intoxication? Slight tipsiness?
My main issue with those who are so staunchly anti pot is their hypocrisy in regards to alcohol and cigarettes, which do far more damage overall.
It was illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in that seat, and it was illegal for all them "colored people" to sit in those restaurants. They're burning in Hell, right?
lain:Mr.Razorblades
New member
Inzl Kett said:
Eeesh, generalizations are never a good idea, especially when your data is patently wrong.
Yes, some people do have adverse reactions to it, just like some people may have adverse reactions to coffee, ice cream or, crazy enough, happiness. But, that doesn't mean that you can make a generalization for all people.
Well you're pretty much wrong on that count as well. When was the last time you looked up any recent published journals on the benefits of medical marijuana?
There's that generalization troll again. Do you know any other forms of logical fallacies, this one is getting kind of old.
Please, just use your imagination. This post is riddled with generalizations and could use some spicing up with a false analogy or maybe a false dilemma; a personal favorite of mine.
:yawn:
Oh can you now. So everyone who defends a businessman's right to allow smoking in their pub must be a smoker, and everyone who supports gun owners's rights must own a gun, and on and on.
Sounds like he got some bad stuff. I'm not partial to it either, but I can trade anecdotal evidence with you all day long.
Then you're ignorant when it comes to this topic. Marijuana's medical value has been clearly and repeatedly demonstrated.
And again, I've seen the exact opposite.
Different strokes. My brother-in-law isn't himself even after a single glass of wine, let alone a caraffe's worth.
Alright, my answer may surprise some people. I answer as follows:
In the Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals, Kant tells us that we should "act so as always to treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of another, always at the same time as an end in itself, never merely as a means." To treat a person as an end-in-himself is to respect his rational autonomy. Whenever you get drunk/high, you are treating yourself merely as a means to an end (namely, whatever the recreational effects of getting high are). Getting drunk/high impairs your ability to exercise your rational autonomy, and therefore it is contrary to the Moral Law. Of incidental note: A Kantian professor of mine in college consciously abstained from alcoholic beverages.
So, is smoking marijuana immoral? Yes, probably to the same sense that getting drunk is, if we ignore the fact that the health effects of alcohol abuse are substantially worse than smoking marijuana, and consider getting drunk and smoking marijuana only qua relieving oneself from sobriety.
That said, there's still a question of degree. Some acts are substantially worse than others. Killing your father is much worse than stealing a dollar from Wal-Mart. Since exercise of your rational autonomy, although impaired, is still quite possible while high (when I smoked incense that one time, I still was able to walk around and talk and stuff...though I smiled like an idiot at everyone, waved and acted silly overall). In fact, you're much more functional high than drunk.
Therefore, to whatever degree getting drunk is immoral qua getting drunk, marijuana is less than that.
Then, I don't think that the health effects are non-negligible. Marijuana abuse is much less harmful to the body than alcohol abuse is.
But most importantly: Should it be illegal?
The answer is no. Criminal law ought to concern itself solely with the transgression of rights. I have committed an intrinsically criminal act if and only if I intentionally have transgressed someone's life, liberty or property. Since marijuana involves none of these, it ought not to be illegal, since there is no victim. A crime must have a victim.
Simply put, and here I address Inzl Kett directly:
What I do in my personal time is none of your business. In fact, and here I quote Metallica, "why don't you worry about yourself instead?"
In the Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals, Kant tells us that we should "act so as always to treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of another, always at the same time as an end in itself, never merely as a means." To treat a person as an end-in-himself is to respect his rational autonomy. Whenever you get drunk/high, you are treating yourself merely as a means to an end (namely, whatever the recreational effects of getting high are). Getting drunk/high impairs your ability to exercise your rational autonomy, and therefore it is contrary to the Moral Law. Of incidental note: A Kantian professor of mine in college consciously abstained from alcoholic beverages.
So, is smoking marijuana immoral? Yes, probably to the same sense that getting drunk is, if we ignore the fact that the health effects of alcohol abuse are substantially worse than smoking marijuana, and consider getting drunk and smoking marijuana only qua relieving oneself from sobriety.
That said, there's still a question of degree. Some acts are substantially worse than others. Killing your father is much worse than stealing a dollar from Wal-Mart. Since exercise of your rational autonomy, although impaired, is still quite possible while high (when I smoked incense that one time, I still was able to walk around and talk and stuff...though I smiled like an idiot at everyone, waved and acted silly overall). In fact, you're much more functional high than drunk.
Therefore, to whatever degree getting drunk is immoral qua getting drunk, marijuana is less than that.
Then, I don't think that the health effects are non-negligible. Marijuana abuse is much less harmful to the body than alcohol abuse is.
But most importantly: Should it be illegal?
The answer is no. Criminal law ought to concern itself solely with the transgression of rights. I have committed an intrinsically criminal act if and only if I intentionally have transgressed someone's life, liberty or property. Since marijuana involves none of these, it ought not to be illegal, since there is no victim. A crime must have a victim.
Simply put, and here I address Inzl Kett directly:
What I do in my personal time is none of your business. In fact, and here I quote Metallica, "why don't you worry about yourself instead?"
| Holier Than Thou - Metallica | |
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