toldailytopic: Is it immoral to gamble?

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Clete

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I notice that all of you answered, almost entirely, from your own perspective. You answered, in effect, "Is is wrong for any one individual to gamble?"

And that's perfectly valid given the way the question was asked but I think the more interesting question is...

Is gambling immoral?

Given the deleterious effects that organized gambling has on the society as a whole, I don't think that question would be as easy to answer.

The fact is, that if gambling is permitted, there are people who will gamble their lives away. The lottery is little more than a tax on stupid people. The very people who can least afford it have the most irresistible draw toward participating in it.

And make no mistake about it, if people didn't go into casinos and spend more than they can afford to spend or go to the store to buy lottery tickets instead of the bread their family needs, neither the casino nor the lottery would exist.

Does that make gambling immoral?


Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Lighthouse

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I notice that all of you answered, almost entirely, from your own perspective. You answered, in effect, "Is is wrong for any one individual to gamble?"

And that's perfectly valid given the way the question was asked but I think the more interesting question is...

Is gambling immoral?

Given the deleterious effects that organized gambling has on the society as a whole, I don't think that question would be as easy to answer.

The fact is, that if gambling is permitted, there are people who will gamble their lives away. The lottery is little more than a tax on stupid people. The very people who can least afford it have the most irresistible draw toward participating in it.

And make no mistake about it, if people didn't go into casinos and spend more than they can afford to spend or go to the store to buy lottery tickets instead of the bread their family needs, neither the casino nor the lottery would exist.

Does that make gambling immoral?

Resting in Him,
Clete
While true this in no way makes gambling immoral in and of itself. What of the gambling done in private homes? As long as it is legal is it immoral?
 

aSeattleConserv

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for September 23rd, 2010 01:49 PM


toldailytopic: Is it immoral to gamble?


I suppose we could go to the source of moral behavior and see what Scripture says about gambling:

The Bible does not specifically condemn gambling, betting, or the lottery. The Bible does warn us, however, to stay away from the love of money (1 Timothy 6:10; Hebrews 13:5). Scripture also encourages us to stay away from attempts to “get rich quick” (Proverbs 13:11; 23:5; Ecclesiastes 5:10). Gambling most definitely is focused on the love of money and undeniably tempts people with the promise of quick and easy riches.

What is wrong with gambling? Gambling is a difficult issue because if it is done in moderation and only on occasion, it is a waste of money, but it is not necessarily evil. People waste money on all sorts of activities. Gambling is no more or less of a waste of money than seeing a movie (in many cases), eating an unnecessarily expensive meal, or purchasing a worthless item. At the same time, the fact that money is wasted on other things does not justify gambling. Money should not be wasted. Excess money should be saved for future needs or given to the Lord's work, not gambled away.

While the Bible does not explicitly mention gambling, it does mention events of “luck” or “chance.” As an example, casting lots is used in Leviticus to choose between the sacrificial goat and the scapegoat. Joshua cast lots to determine the allotment of land to the various tribes. Nehemiah cast lots to determine who would live inside the walls of Jerusalem. The apostles cast lots to determine the replacement for Judas. Proverbs 16:33 says, “The lot is cast in the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.”

What would the Bible say about casinos and lotteries? Casinos use all sorts of marketing schemes to entice gamblers to risk as much money as possible. They often offer inexpensive or even free alcohol, which encourages drunkenness, and thereby a decreased ability to make wise decisions. Everything in a casino is perfectly rigged for taking money in large sums and giving nothing in return, except for fleeting and empty pleasures. Lotteries attempt to portray themselves as a way to fund education and/or social programs. However, studies show that lottery participants are usually those who can least afford to be spending money on lottery tickets. The allure of “getting rich quick” is too great a temptation to resist for those who are desperate. The chances of winning are infinitesimal, which results in many peoples’ lives being ruined.

Can lotto/lottery proceeds please God? Many people claim to be playing the lottery or gambling so that they can give the money to the church or to some other good cause. While this may be a good motive, reality is that few use gambling winnings for godly purposes. Studies show that the vast majority of lottery winners are in an even worse financial situation a few years after winning a jackpot than they were before. Few, if any, truly give the money to a good cause. Further, God does not need our money to fund His mission in the world. Proverbs 13:11 says, “Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes it grow.” God is sovereign and will provide for the needs of the church through honest means. Would God be honored by receiving donated drug money or money stolen in a bank robbery? Of course not. Neither does God need or want money that was “stolen” from the poor in the temptation for riches.

First Timothy 6:10 tells us, “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” Hebrews 13:5 declares, “Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, ‘Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.’” Matthew 6:24 proclaims, “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”
http://www.gotquestions.org/gambling-sin.html
 

Krsto

Well-known member
I suppose we could go to the source of moral behavior and see what Scripture says about gambling:

The Bible does not specifically condemn gambling, betting, or the lottery. The Bible does warn us, however, to stay away from the love of money (1 Timothy 6:10; Hebrews 13:5). Scripture also encourages us to stay away from attempts to “get rich quick” (Proverbs 13:11; 23:5; Ecclesiastes 5:10). Gambling most definitely is focused on the love of money and undeniably tempts people with the promise of quick and easy riches.

What is wrong with gambling? Gambling is a difficult issue because if it is done in moderation and only on occasion, it is a waste of money, but it is not necessarily evil. People waste money on all sorts of activities. Gambling is no more or less of a waste of money than seeing a movie (in many cases), eating an unnecessarily expensive meal, or purchasing a worthless item. At the same time, the fact that money is wasted on other things does not justify gambling. Money should not be wasted. Excess money should be saved for future needs or given to the Lord's work, not gambled away.

While the Bible does not explicitly mention gambling, it does mention events of “luck” or “chance.” As an example, casting lots is used in Leviticus to choose between the sacrificial goat and the scapegoat. Joshua cast lots to determine the allotment of land to the various tribes. Nehemiah cast lots to determine who would live inside the walls of Jerusalem. The apostles cast lots to determine the replacement for Judas. Proverbs 16:33 says, “The lot is cast in the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.”

What would the Bible say about casinos and lotteries? Casinos use all sorts of marketing schemes to entice gamblers to risk as much money as possible. They often offer inexpensive or even free alcohol, which encourages drunkenness, and thereby a decreased ability to make wise decisions. Everything in a casino is perfectly rigged for taking money in large sums and giving nothing in return, except for fleeting and empty pleasures. Lotteries attempt to portray themselves as a way to fund education and/or social programs. However, studies show that lottery participants are usually those who can least afford to be spending money on lottery tickets. The allure of “getting rich quick” is too great a temptation to resist for those who are desperate. The chances of winning are infinitesimal, which results in many peoples’ lives being ruined.

Can lotto/lottery proceeds please God? Many people claim to be playing the lottery or gambling so that they can give the money to the church or to some other good cause. While this may be a good motive, reality is that few use gambling winnings for godly purposes. Studies show that the vast majority of lottery winners are in an even worse financial situation a few years after winning a jackpot than they were before. Few, if any, truly give the money to a good cause. Further, God does not need our money to fund His mission in the world. Proverbs 13:11 says, “Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes it grow.” God is sovereign and will provide for the needs of the church through honest means. Would God be honored by receiving donated drug money or money stolen in a bank robbery? Of course not. Neither does God need or want money that was “stolen” from the poor in the temptation for riches.
First Timothy 6:10 tells us, “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” Hebrews 13:5 declares, “Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, ‘Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.’” Matthew 6:24 proclaims, “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”
http://www.gotquestions.org/gambling-sin.html

I agree except for the section in red.

The author of that article equates the guy who plunks down $3 at 7-11 on lottery tickets and wins and then gives money to the church with the proceeds from drug money or a bank robbery being given to God.
 

aSeattleConserv

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I agree except for the section in red.

The author of that article equates the guy who plunks down $3 at 7-11 on lottery tickets and wins and then gives money to the church with the proceeds from drug money or a bank robbery being given to God.

I see your point. I think that the author is trying to point out that the something for nothing mentality isn't good, be it from gambling or other unscrupulous acts.
 

Ktoyou

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Greed is immoral, thus the question becomes does one gamble for greed or a rather silly recreation.

It is not immoral to be stupid. :chew:
 

WandererInFog

New member
It is not any more immoral to play games of chance than it is to spend money on any other sort of leisure activity. Which is to say, while it's not intrinsically immoral, if one is using their money to do so in an irresponsible manner, then it becomes immoral. Just like it isn't intrinsically immoral to buy a new TV, but becomes so if I'm spending money I should be donating to charitable work or spending to take proper care of my family.
 

JesusSavedMe

New member
Well, I definitely agree with the point that someone made about being good stewards of God's resources. At the same time, I also believe that as long as one is not gambling away the Rent or Food money (or similar funds), there is nothing wrong with gambling; as long as one can control themselves & are able to stop.
I see no difference between gambling on sporting events And investing in the stock market. Both involve risk & both (usually) involve researching (companies, sports teams) in order to weigh risk vs reward; to limit risk to a small degree.
With gambling, as with the Stock Market, you're going to find some greedy people.
 

chrysostom

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Nydhogg

New member
For once I'm in agreement with most of the TOL crowd.

Placing a five or ten bucks bet on a sports event that you like harms no-one, gives th event an extra edge, and it's typically less than you would spend on booze on a football Sunday with friends.

It's also pleasant and in good fun to spend an afternoon with friends having a couple beers and playing Texas Hold'em. As long as you don't blow more than 20ish bucks on a hold'em night, what's the big deal?


As long as the gambler is pretty clear on the guideline that you should only gamble money you can afford and don't mind losing, and as long as only a small, fixed amount is placed on the bet, I'd say it's mostly harmless.
 

zoo22

Well-known member
Forgot about BINGO.
BINGO is gambling, right, folks?
What is the difference between that and Vegas style gambling?

Not much, except that bingo is generally more of a community event. And as Chrys pointed out, the farm's pretty safe.

As far as gambling being immoral, I have a lot of thoughts on it.

I don't think it necessarily is, but that it can be, and there are so many things involved. Mostly I think it depends on excess and how and who it effects .. but I think that can get subtle.

I can/have/will play cards for 20 hours straight. Thats obviously excessive for most people, but that's not what I mean by excess. By excess I mean how deep someone will go, and how much of their life they'll squander. I love playing poker and have played for many years. I won't squander more than I can afford, and I would never play with $ that was alloted for something else; I keep poker money separate. I keep records. Sometimes I lose, overall I win.

That said, I think about who is hurt by it? It's obvious that say, your family shouldn't be effected or hurt by it (or yourself)... It's immoral (to me at least) to be gambling with the kid's lunch money. That's a no-brainer. But what of playing with people who are doing that? This is something I grapple with. Many people at the poker tables are addicts and playing from despair. So is my playing against them supporting that? I think yes it is. But it's rare that I'll leave the table because of that (I will sometimes–It's my biggest poker flaw). It's also rare that I'll tell someone they ought to head home. So by participating, I'm supporting or enabling something I think is immoral. Hm.

Also, I do definitely believe that the gambling industry is immoral. Yet I support that industry by playing cards within it, so I'm supporting something I think is immoral. Hm.

Those are the two things I have trouble with sometimes. When I take long breaks from playing, that's why (primarily the first example). Also because it can get boring and sometimes there can be a lot of tension and ego.

Also, I consider that there are different kinds of gambling. If you're at a casino, with the exception of one bet (an odds bet in craps), you're on the losing end. Always. The odds are always in the house's favor. (Okay poker and card-counting in blackjack are also exceptions). But otherwise, for every dollar you put down at a casino table, the odds are that you'll wind up with less than a dollar. Is it immoral to throw away money?

But other gambling, say a sports better that really knows the game, can place bets with the odds in their favor. That's different to me, and involves skill (as poker). So while they may lose, the expectation going in is in their favor.

I don't follow sports much, and I don't bet on sports. I actually don't gamble at all except for poker. Well, every few years a couple of lottery tickets, sometimes a bet between friends like I bet you can't jump over that tractor trailer blindfolded balancing a beach ball on your nose or whatnot. I used to make stupid bets with friends more, but haven't for years.

Anyway, there's some gambling rambling to chew on.
 

chrysostom

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Hall of Fame
For once I'm in agreement with most of the TOL crowd.

Placing a five or ten bucks bet on a sports event that you like harms no-one, gives th event an extra edge, and it's typically less than you would spend on booze on a football Sunday with friends.

It's also pleasant and in good fun to spend an afternoon with friends having a couple beers and playing Texas Hold'em. As long as you don't blow more than 20ish bucks on a hold'em night, what's the big deal?

so where do you stand of bingo addiction
or
don't you think it is a problem?
 
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