MrDeets
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Food for thought. Thank you.:cheers:
toldailytopic: Is homosexuality genetic?
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Food for thought. Thank you.:cheers:
Ask Mr. Religion
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My views on homosexuality are as follows:
Morality is defined by an ultimate moral authority, God. The non-believer can make no claim to possessing objective moral truths, for to the non-believer truth is relative. Yet, as believers, we do have an objective Truth-giver, God, who has defined in Scripture what we "ought" to think, to do, or to say. In fact, this innate "oughtness" of right and wrong is known by all persons, saved or lost; but the lost reject this and have exchanged the truth for a lie (see Romans 1:18-23).
Sin is “any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God” (1 John 3:4; Romans 4:15), in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission (Romans 6:12-17; Romans 7:5-24). Sin is not a mere violation of the law of our constitution, nor of the system of things, but an offense against a personal lawgiver and moral governor who vindicates his law with penalties. Some sins in themselves, and by reason of various aggravations, are more heinous in the sight of God than others (Jn. 19:11; 1 Jn. 5:16).
Since God, speaking through the inspired prophets authoring the books of the bible, declared homosexuality a sin, then it is a sin. See: Leviticus 18:22; Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9,10; 1 Timothy 1:10.
Thus, homosexuality is just one of a litany of the decay of the perfect moral state found in original creation.
One can be a homosexual and be a Christian. All sin is objectionable to God, and there are no sinless Christians. Homosexuality is generally very public behavior and naturally attracts the attention of others. Given that homosexuality is often practiced openly, the reaction by some believers who have wandered off the “love thy neighbor” reservation towards homosexuals can be over the top. Such reactions may also be the result of encountering homosexuals who profess to be believers yet seem to revel in their sin. This seeming defiance towards God or disingenuous behavior about their profession of faith provokes many to extreme reactions.
Given the clear teachings from Scripture about homosexual behavior, I believe that the true Christian homosexual struggles daily with their homosexuality.
Here are some resources regarding homosexuality and the Bible that may help you understand more about the topic:
Homosexuality Questions and Answers:
Homosexual Questions and Answers
Can Homosexuals Change:
Can Homosexuals Change
Homosexuality: Nature, Nurture and Compassion
Homosexuality: Nature, Nurture and Compassion
No one is born a Homosexual:
ACPEDS - College Cautions Educators About Sexual Orientation in Youth
I believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, and one that can be rejected with careful study of Scripture, prayer, assembly with others to worship God, and proper counseling.
In 1 Cor 6:9-11 we read:
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.
11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
We are not mere animal brutes following our instincts, we make choices according to our greatest desires at the moment we so choose. We are thus, self-determined moral agents.
Happiness to Christians is more than the needs of the flesh. Active Christian homosexuals must continue to pray for strength to resist their urges and strive to be obedient to the scriptures.
AMR
Morality is defined by an ultimate moral authority, God. The non-believer can make no claim to possessing objective moral truths, for to the non-believer truth is relative. Yet, as believers, we do have an objective Truth-giver, God, who has defined in Scripture what we "ought" to think, to do, or to say. In fact, this innate "oughtness" of right and wrong is known by all persons, saved or lost; but the lost reject this and have exchanged the truth for a lie (see Romans 1:18-23).
Sin is “any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God” (1 John 3:4; Romans 4:15), in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission (Romans 6:12-17; Romans 7:5-24). Sin is not a mere violation of the law of our constitution, nor of the system of things, but an offense against a personal lawgiver and moral governor who vindicates his law with penalties. Some sins in themselves, and by reason of various aggravations, are more heinous in the sight of God than others (Jn. 19:11; 1 Jn. 5:16).
Since God, speaking through the inspired prophets authoring the books of the bible, declared homosexuality a sin, then it is a sin. See: Leviticus 18:22; Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9,10; 1 Timothy 1:10.
Thus, homosexuality is just one of a litany of the decay of the perfect moral state found in original creation.
One can be a homosexual and be a Christian. All sin is objectionable to God, and there are no sinless Christians. Homosexuality is generally very public behavior and naturally attracts the attention of others. Given that homosexuality is often practiced openly, the reaction by some believers who have wandered off the “love thy neighbor” reservation towards homosexuals can be over the top. Such reactions may also be the result of encountering homosexuals who profess to be believers yet seem to revel in their sin. This seeming defiance towards God or disingenuous behavior about their profession of faith provokes many to extreme reactions.
Given the clear teachings from Scripture about homosexual behavior, I believe that the true Christian homosexual struggles daily with their homosexuality.
Here are some resources regarding homosexuality and the Bible that may help you understand more about the topic:
Homosexuality Questions and Answers:
Homosexual Questions and Answers
Can Homosexuals Change:
Can Homosexuals Change
Homosexuality: Nature, Nurture and Compassion
Homosexuality: Nature, Nurture and Compassion
No one is born a Homosexual:
ACPEDS - College Cautions Educators About Sexual Orientation in Youth
I believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, and one that can be rejected with careful study of Scripture, prayer, assembly with others to worship God, and proper counseling.
In 1 Cor 6:9-11 we read:
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.
11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
We are not mere animal brutes following our instincts, we make choices according to our greatest desires at the moment we so choose. We are thus, self-determined moral agents.
Happiness to Christians is more than the needs of the flesh. Active Christian homosexuals must continue to pray for strength to resist their urges and strive to be obedient to the scriptures.
AMR
Lon
Well-known member
No and I find all research contrawise to be bogus.
Take it to its obvious conclusion: Child predators? Born that way?
Attraction to animals? Polygamous? What next? Ones teddy bear?
I can't believe someone spent $ on research.
Simply (short version of several posters): we are sexual beings and 'preference' is exactly that: a choice.
Take it to its obvious conclusion: Child predators? Born that way?
Attraction to animals? Polygamous? What next? Ones teddy bear?
I can't believe someone spent $ on research.
Simply (short version of several posters): we are sexual beings and 'preference' is exactly that: a choice.
John Ladder
New member
There is no "gay gene."
Male Homosexuality: Absence of Linkage to Microsatellite Markers at Xq28
Several lines of evidence have implicated genetic factors in homosexuality. The most compelling observation has been the report of genetic linkage of male homosexuality to microsatellite markers on the X chromosome. This observation warranted further study and confirmation. Sharing of alleles at position Xq28 was studied in 52 gay male sibling pairs from Canadian families. Four markers at Xq28 were analyzed (DXS1113, BGN, Factor 8, and DXS1108). Allele and haplotype sharing for these markers was not increased over expectation. These results do not support an X-linked gene underlying male homosexuality.
The APA acknowledgement:Several lines of evidence have implicated genetic factors in homosexuality. The most compelling observation has been the report of genetic linkage of male homosexuality to microsatellite markers on the X chromosome. This observation warranted further study and confirmation. Sharing of alleles at position Xq28 was studied in 52 gay male sibling pairs from Canadian families. Four markers at Xq28 were analyzed (DXS1113, BGN, Factor 8, and DXS1108). Allele and haplotype sharing for these markers was not increased over expectation. These results do not support an X-linked gene underlying male homosexuality.
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/orientation.aspx#
There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.
And, of course, there are thousands of brave men and women who have rejected the homosexual lifestyle:There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.
Exodus International
As a gay person, I felt strange in a church of heterosexual believers. I tried a gay church for awhile, but sensed the Spirit of God was hindered there, and I wanted the Spirit in His fullness. So I returned to Calvary Chapel and in April, asked the Lord if I were still saved after being away from Him for so long. I heard a resounding, "Yes!" A week later, I asked Jesus to be Lord of my life. I dove into church activities to get all the teaching and fellowship I could, telling people all along the way of my gayness, testing the waters. Lo and behold, they still loved and accepted me! There was no judgment.
On June 3, 1985, I went out to dinner with a man in my home fellowship. He told me that I needed to be healed of my homosexuality. I thought that sounded very strange. I remember thinking, "If God wants that, I'll certainly do it. But I haven't heard anything from Him on this!" However, the next morning I woke up with a strong conviction of my need for deliverance. I called my Christian brother and asked him to pray with me. As he prayed, I trembled all over. I didn't understand what was happening, I just knew it was important. All that day I felt empty, as though I'd lost my best friend (now I realize that a part of me had died). About 3:00 in the afternoon, I was sitting at my desk, still feeling empty. The Holy Spirit brought to mind part of a verse I hadn't heard or read for 15 years..."Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (II Cor. 5:17) The emptiness left me and I felt full again. I knew I was on the right track.
Sin is genetic, though quite inscrutable as a discrete feature within the genome. As others have said, sexual perversion are simply a matter of choice. It is a matter of the will. One can resist the urge to be a pervert.As a gay person, I felt strange in a church of heterosexual believers. I tried a gay church for awhile, but sensed the Spirit of God was hindered there, and I wanted the Spirit in His fullness. So I returned to Calvary Chapel and in April, asked the Lord if I were still saved after being away from Him for so long. I heard a resounding, "Yes!" A week later, I asked Jesus to be Lord of my life. I dove into church activities to get all the teaching and fellowship I could, telling people all along the way of my gayness, testing the waters. Lo and behold, they still loved and accepted me! There was no judgment.
On June 3, 1985, I went out to dinner with a man in my home fellowship. He told me that I needed to be healed of my homosexuality. I thought that sounded very strange. I remember thinking, "If God wants that, I'll certainly do it. But I haven't heard anything from Him on this!" However, the next morning I woke up with a strong conviction of my need for deliverance. I called my Christian brother and asked him to pray with me. As he prayed, I trembled all over. I didn't understand what was happening, I just knew it was important. All that day I felt empty, as though I'd lost my best friend (now I realize that a part of me had died). About 3:00 in the afternoon, I was sitting at my desk, still feeling empty. The Holy Spirit brought to mind part of a verse I hadn't heard or read for 15 years..."Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (II Cor. 5:17) The emptiness left me and I felt full again. I knew I was on the right track.
csuguy
Well-known member
I believe people have a lot more control over their sexuality than most will admit. I have known more than one person who were straight, but then "experimented" with their sexuality, and then became homosexual/bi.
Most people won't cross this boundary because they morally won't allow themselves to and/or because they are already attracted to one sex and don't see the attraction in the other sex off hand. However, such a person, if they allowed themselves to "experiment," could very well find that they like if not prefer the opposite of their natural attraction. It's all about wear one decides to draw the line for themselves rather than something built into ones genes.
Most people won't cross this boundary because they morally won't allow themselves to and/or because they are already attracted to one sex and don't see the attraction in the other sex off hand. However, such a person, if they allowed themselves to "experiment," could very well find that they like if not prefer the opposite of their natural attraction. It's all about wear one decides to draw the line for themselves rather than something built into ones genes.
I realize you guys are trying to speak for us but I'm sad to say, you suck at it.
Who's calling for gays to be executed for simply being gay? Who's claiming homosexuality is purely a choice? I keep asking folks like you to point these knuckleheads out for us, since I can't seem to recall anyone in particular saying such things.
But no one ever does. It's weird, that.
So that aside...
Every bit of the research I've seen claiming or so much as hinting at a genetic source of any sexual orientation at all has been sketchy at best. There's simply zero evidence for such. Everything I've seen yet has been better explained as something entirely else. Even often enough obviously something entirely else...or at least obvious to someone who isn't looking for something to support a foregone conclusion.
I think differences in the brains of homosexuals and heterosexuals was the latest "evidence" produced around here that had me shaking my head sadly. Because it apparently somehow supports a genetic cause of sexual orientation despite the fact we've known for a long time that all manner of behaviors and beliefs developed even well after childhood likewise cause noticeable differences in the brains of this or that group. And yet that has been presented as evidence for orientation being genetically predetermined. Why? Because the folks presenting that research as evidence for such don't care if it's true or not. They care only that folks who don't know any better might be convinced by it. And folks who don't think for themselves and have to be told what to believe buy right into it.
There's no other significant sexual behavior that's assumed or even seriously considered genetically predetermined that I'm aware of. Except orientation. Because in that particular case, it's not science. It's politics.
Sexuality itself is genetic. Everything we do with that sexuality is something we develop along the way. That's not only what science regularly and consistently reveals...it's also blatant common sense.
alwight
New member
Being gay imo involves deriving at least some degree of sexual satisfaction from the same sex, whether you've actually physically abstained from full intercourse or not. In the crazy world of supposed moral absolutes that are often touted here, there are no half measures.
As a neutral
it seems no great surprise to me at all when satire is directed back at such people that would have them executed. The really sad thing is that right wing religious zealots are not being satirical or seemingly capable of recognising it.
That's the stupidest thing I've heard all week.
Wasn't satirical at all. You intentionally mischaracterized.As a neutral
Edit: You do realize that you just explained the reasoning behind your position and then claimed you were just being satirical, right?
alwight
New member
If you had actually read the thread or my previous comments, you would have realised that I was refering to a particular gay satire not my comments.
See #18
I can requote the quote I was quoting, if you like. It didn't have anything to do with that satire thing you spoke on earlier.
But you know what? Whatever, that's what. Dumb point to argue. If you're really comfortable intentionally mischaracterizing our position but uncomfortable with owning up to it, then there's no point going round and round about it.
alwight
New member
I perhaps didn't make it absolutely clear I will agree, but I'm glad to help sort it out. :e4e:
Thanks for demonstrating my point that right wing zealots just can't or won't recognise satire from straight talk.
Yeah, I can't let that slide. Don't usually do this but...
That was what I quoted. That was what I referred to. It's right here on this very page. It wasn't satirical. Wasn't referring to the earlier material that was satirical either. It was a blatant mischaracterization of the position of those who advocate for outlawing the homosexual act. Just as this whole stupid line of argument is blatantly dishonest, so it was blatantly dishonest. Unless you simply haven't a clue what "satirical" means, which you can't even claim to since you addressed that very subject with obvious understanding on this same thread as well.
Seriously, why are you even making this stupid "it was satire" argument? It so obviously was not.
alwight
New member
Only I never claimed my earlier comment was intended to be satire or even hyperbole. Not that you'd ever recognise which I suspect.
zoo22
Well-known member
But cause is the topic of this particular thread.
What about twins? One twin can be gay, and the other not? Presumably, they've had the same hormonal environment?
The inclination presumably isn't a choice. The lifestyle is. A homosexual can have the inclination but decide not to live it out. Sartre is always helpful on this point. There is no such thing as a heterosexual or a homosexual, in the grand scheme of things. Ultimately, we are nothing but what we make ourselves. "Man is condemned-to-be-free."
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