toldailytopic: Is belief in the trinity necessary for salvation?

oatmeal

Well-known member
Even the demons believe and tremble....

James 2:19

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

You and the devils believe:

a. three in one God

b. the trinity

c. Jesus Christ is God

d. all of the above

e. that there is one God.

If you picked "e" then you have what scripture teaches, if you picked any other answer, you fail.

oatmeal
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

A loving atheist should be saved before a hateful Christian.

The right theology doesn't save. God saves. And I don't believe God is going to give us a quiz.

Quiz:

Have you done

a. confess with your mouth the lord Jesus

b. believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead

c. both a and b.

d. a or b but not c.

whosoever had done "c" is saved.

whether or not they understand or live in God's love or not.

whether or not they believe in the trinity or not.

oatmeal
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Whatever people think about the trin, the purpose of the anti trins is to deny that Christ is God and that IS essential to salvation, now God is wonderfully merciful someone may be saved without knowledge [doctrinally] but they will never be saved without the fact....that Christ is indeed God mighty to save.

Of course once you admit that Christ is God it immediately is apparent that He is not the Father nor yet the Holy Ghost so you have to admit the plurality Persons in God's being.
 

Totton Linnet

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Silver Subscriber
There is not one anti trinitarian who has not in their posts on this forum expressed the utmost scorn verging on hatred towards trinitarians which poll after poll has shown make up 90 per cent + of the church....therefore they are anti church and anti Christ who is the head of the church His body.

They have climbed into the sheepfold by some way unlawful and the sheep do not recognize them.
 

Sum1sGruj

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Banned
There is not one anti trinitarian who has not in their posts on this forum expressed the utmost scorn verging on hatred towards trinitarians which poll after poll has shown make up 90 per cent + of the church....therefore they are anti church and anti Christ who is the head of the church His body.

They have climbed into the sheepfold by some way unlawful and the sheep do not recognize them.

Pot. Meet kettle.
BLACK.

You can't even pretend to act as if the trinitarians on here are not utterly absurd with their unholy idol :rotfl:

And trinitarians actually deserve a bit of scorn for their crimes against humanity. To me, the trinity symbol is equivalent to a swastika.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Pot. Meet kettle.
BLACK.

You can't even pretend to act as if the trinitarians on here are not utterly absurd with their unholy idol :rotfl:

And trinitarians actually deserve a bit of scorn for their crimes against humanity. To me, the trinity symbol is equivalent to a swastika.

*
Are you saying Christ is an unholy idol?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Pot. Meet kettle.
BLACK.

You can't even pretend to act as if the trinitarians on here are not utterly absurd with their unholy idol :rotfl:

And trinitarians actually deserve a bit of scorn for their crimes against humanity. To me, the trinity symbol is equivalent to a swastika.

Coming mighty close to being "blasphemous" don't you think? "swastika symbol equals the trinity symbol." I think you went over the line with that statement and you're starting to sound a wee bit crazy...
 

Sum1sGruj

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*
Are you saying Christ is an unholy idol?

I'm saying your idol is unneeded and fruitless, and has produced nothing but separation and crimes against humanity. It is nothing less then unholy.

You can sit there and twist what I say, even though I have that big cross as my avatar and Christian as my religion, it just further shows the deceptiveness of you trinitarians. Dishonest, and can't even uphold your idol logically. You all rather force it upon others and choose to be fanatical like past trinitarians who persecuted people for not believing in it.
The Bible warns of such idolatry and the evils that come of such things.

That is why the trinity symbol is like a swastika. It and many of it's adherents make a mockery of Christianity. Every zealous trinitarian I have ever met is nothing but a black hearted, Christian dividing Nazi. They sit there and shun non-trinitarians away, calling them anti-Christs, and yet they are the ones without a drop of Christ in them. It makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm tired of it, and every time a 'Christian' on here gets the notion to want to shun me and push me around because I don't believe in their triangle, I'm just going to tell them exactly what I just said- watch them cry about it like the hypocrites they are, telling people they are going to be damned and then whine about being insulted.
 
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oatmeal

Well-known member
Whatever people think about the trin, the purpose of the anti trins is to deny that Christ is God and that IS essential to salvation, now God is wonderfully merciful someone may be saved without knowledge [doctrinally] but they will never be saved without the fact....that Christ is indeed God mighty to save.

Of course once you admit that Christ is God it immediately is apparent that He is not the Father nor yet the Holy Ghost so you have to admit the plurality Persons in God's being.

Your opinion is noted.

But where is your scriptural references to substantiate such a claim?

Book of Totton?

oatmeal
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
There is not one anti trinitarian who has not in their posts on this forum expressed the utmost scorn verging on hatred towards trinitarians which poll after poll has shown make up 90 per cent + of the church....therefore they are anti church and anti Christ who is the head of the church His body.

They have climbed into the sheepfold by some way unlawful and the sheep do not recognize them.

We recognize that God is one, not three in one.

Making a human to be God himself, even if that man is the son of
God Christ Jesus is idolatry.

Romans 1:23

As believers we hate sin, but love the sinner, including when they sin the sin of adhering to false doctrines such as the trinity.

oatmeal
 
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Sum1sGruj

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Banned
Whatever people think about the trin, the purpose of the anti trins is to deny that Christ is God and that IS essential to salvation, now God is wonderfully merciful someone may be saved without knowledge [doctrinally] but they will never be saved without the fact....that Christ is indeed God mighty to save.

Of course once you admit that Christ is God it immediately is apparent that He is not the Father nor yet the Holy Ghost so you have to admit the plurality Persons in God's being.

Or, one can just go with what the Bible states instead of hanging on a pagan ideology.



See, the problem is not if it is wrong or not- it is wrong. I have proven it wrong both to myself and any listener who is actually man enough to admit it. Which isn't many, because trinitarians are dishonest. It takes that degree of dishonesty and denial to keep it alive. If everyone was honest, it would be a dead doctrine.

But because trinitarianism is so gigantic, one can feel snug inside of of that lie. They don't have to feel like blasphemers and idolaters because they have a billion other people to tell them a LIE that they are not.
That's perhaps why trinitarians so often resemble pagans right at face value. They know it is lacking deep down, so they compensate for it by acting high and mighty, being an embarrassment to both real Christians and to all of humankind in general. Fanaticism does not equal Godly, it equals medicine and asylum.

And this is precisely why idols are bad. The Bible speaks on this. What good has the trinity done? It has done absolutely nothing then divide Christendom and cause persecution. Meaningless knowledge that does no good.
That is why I am being quite literal when I say that it is an unholy doctrine. It is obvious.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
You are pitting one passage against another here.

My understanding (yeah you can disagree here, np):
The first is talking about the sins of the man and his need to get them right with God.
The second is dealing with specifics against an individual.

We always must be careful with our 'interpretations' of passages and not pit them against one another.
First, I don't think it possible
Second, it is really, when you think about it, you or me arguing with God about one passage vs. another.

Not from my perspective.
You offered a verse to imply that Jesus is God, i.e. only God can forgive sin and Jesus forgave sin. In my opinion, that is not a good verse for proving Jesus is God due to, at least, the two verses I cited. And your alleged distinction between the verse you cited and the verse I cited is unconvincing, especially in light of Matthew 6:15.

Not only that, but I thought you were modal in your thinking? That Jesus was God?

As I said in my response to the OP, I believe Jesus is God.

I am opposed to Trinitarianism for the reasons I gave. God doesn't have three minds in three persons.

Also, the Trinity is a denial that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself on the cross. Trinitarians are opposed to patripassianism, and deny that the Father and Holy Spirit suffered on the cross with the Son. One Trinitarian on this forum has has recently argued that the Holy Spirit did not incarnate and was not in Christ on the cross.

Why is there a rebuttal here? Or am I mistaken?

Generally, I would like to convince people that Jesus is God. As I said, the verse you cited is not good for proving Jesus is God due to the two verses I cited. I think you should only put forth the best evidence and arguments to support the deity of our Lord. :e4e:
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
James 2:19

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

You and the devils believe:

a. three in one God

b. the trinity

c. Jesus Christ is God

d. all of the above

e. that there is one God.

If you picked "e" then you have what scripture teaches, if you picked any other answer, you fail.

oatmeal

You deny Christ's diety which puts the Fail upon you...Again. Go back to the "Kingdom Hall" and tell them they are wrong.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Concerning 1 John 5:7


Both Tertullian and Cyprian died in the mid 3rd century.



"The Lord says 'I and the Father are one' and likewise it is written of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 'And these three are one.'"

- Cyprian


The Comma Johanneum and Cyprian



"After His resurrection He promises in a pledge to His disciples that He will send them the promise of His Father; and lastly, He commands them to baptize into the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, not into a unipersonal God."

- Tertullian



It was written according to these men.

Actually, neither men claimed that. It should be self-evident from the article on Cyprian that he was not. As for Tertullian, if the Comma Johanneum had been written by John, Tertullian would certainly have quoted it to defend his Trinity concept that, according to him, was the minority view of the time, yet he never cites the alleged verse. The majority of Christians in Tertullian's day, according to him, held to the Sabellian view of the oneness of God.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
... trinitarians which poll after poll has shown make up 90 per cent + of the church...

You don't find it disturbing that the majority of the early church held to a form of Sabellianism (according to Turtullian), and that the Trinity doctrine you hold to explicitly and implicitly claims God has three minds, two natures, and that the Father and Holy Spirit were not in Christ on the cross?

From my perspective, it's obviously true that Jesus is God, yet the Trinity doctrine is obviously false. The only reasons people hold to the Trinity is because they think it's synonymous with affirming Christ's deity and don't really understand, or care, that the Trinity doctrine is a superfluous and heretical teaching.
 

eameece

New member
We recognize that God is one, not three in one.

Making a human to be God himself, even if that man is the son of
God Christ Jesus is idolatry.

Romans 1:23

As believers we hate sin, but love the sinner, including when they sin the sin of adhering to false doctrines such as the trinity.

oatmeal

Yes, the trinity is not a necessary doctrine. However, Jesus did say he was God. He also asked those who claimed he was blasphemous in saying so, to remember that their own scripture says that they are God too.
John 10: 30-34

Gee whiz, folks; what part of that do you not understand?

Jesus was a mystic. The mystic truth is, each of us is one with God, and IS God; fully divine. I and the Father are one. Jesus taught the mystic truth. Some people who do not recognize the mystic truth, use Christianity to argue and fight with others, or set themselves apart as "saved." Jesus, however, taught love and forgiveness.
 
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