toldailytopic: How do you feel about building a mosque at ground zero?

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Skavau

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Your logic leads to the support of child molestation as a liberty protected by the Constitution. This has been your goal all along, hasn't it?

No it doesn't and hasn't. There is such a notion as informed consent, and such a fallacy as a slippery slope argument.

But nevermind my intent, nothing you say about criminalising communists, liberals, homosexual acts and those who support them is even remotely supported in the US Constitution. Such talk of thought-crime and state intruding into people's private lives has been the doctrine of almost all fascist and totalitarian states that have ever existed. With this in mind, the Mullahs of Saudi Arabia are for more your traditional ally. They're highly conservative and share the same contempt of homosexuality, liberalism and communism.
 

madman

New member
Hi Dave. Not to interrupt the colorful proceedings you guys have going, but...well, actually, we do--even with the broad net you're throwing. It isn't illegal to think or speak in favor of a different approach to government or to argue against the institutions of government so long as you are not advocating their violent overthrow. All Americans are vested with the same rights, guarantees and protections under the Constitution. We even recognize the essential humanity and right attaching in regard to our avowed and violent enemies, which is why we signed off on the Geneva Convention and why we steadfastly address the violation of human rights wherever they occur. I believe it's one of the things that makes us stronger than our foes. So you're free to suggest that capitalism or socialism work economic evil, or that the country would be better served by a constitutional monarchy or an actual democracy, or any other notion that passes for understanding within the framework of peaceful address.
All Muslims, Communists, and liberals are intent on the overthrow of our government, that is the point. Whether it is "violent" or by stealth, the goal is the same, and so is the result.
 

Granite

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Hall of Fame
Mary Contrary and I discussed recently the reality of what these people want to do and what the world they want to create would really look like.

It's positively ugly...
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
All Muslims, Communists, and liberals are intent on the overthrow of our government, that is the point. Whether it is "violent" or by stealth, the goal is the same, and so is the result.
We differ then...I know any number of liberals who love our republic and see their side of policy debates as principled posits within the framework of our existing institutions. Communists obviously want to alter the system, but so long as they argue peacefully I suspect they'll be on the outside looking in. Hey, I've heard conservative voices calling for secession and even constitutional monarchy. Would you include them in that forced exodus?

And I worked with a Muslim who was anything but anti American. He was anti Shaw and one of those who came here for an education and stayed when Iran's government was overthrown by fanatics. His family suffered a bit because of that. He kept his faith, but it wasn't the understanding of those he'd left behind and their violent, paranoid opposition to any thought or expression other than their own. We talked about his religion a good bit and I read the Koran in part to be more intelligent in my rather civil debates with him on the merit of his religious belief (I was an atheist back then). So I know at least one Muslim who was anything but an enemy of anything other than the enemies of freedom. That's why he loved this country. Here we even have the freedom to be utterly wrong and loudly so.
 

Nick_A

New member
All Muslims, Communists, and liberals are intent on the overthrow of our government, that is the point. Whether it is "violent" or by stealth, the goal is the same, and so is the result.

Not to mention the sanctioned invasion of America's southwest border which by definition is treason. There is something in the fallen human psych that needs to destroy QUALITY for the sake of an imagined "EQUALITY." It never works and just leads to ruin. People seem compelled to do it by habit.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
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Americans would know in advance that such a decision would bring about immediate deportation, because America does not give rights to it's enemies.
That is not true. America honors all the rights of our enemies under the Genovia Convention.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Many of them are included in the "Communist" group already. If they support abortion, homosexual rights, etc., and we don't pass laws to execute them for participation in those offenses, then deportation might be an option. Once we return to a civilized society, many will change their abhorrent behaviors and their beliefs, or they will be held accountable.

So much for "land of the free"...:plain:

Fighting abortion is one thing. Implementing a tyranny is another. North Korea anyone?

:rain:
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Your logic leads to the support of child molestation as a liberty protected by the Constitution. This has been your goal all along, hasn't it?

Um, no it doesn't and you need to grow up. The constitution doesn't endorse child molestation, rape, kidnapping, murder or any other acts that infringe upon other people. Nor will it.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
We also honor the right to murder babies. What's your point?
That your original statement of, "America does not grant rights to her enemies." was wrong. That's all. Your response here was intended to convey what, exactly?
 

madman

New member
Um, no it doesn't and you need to grow up. The constitution doesn't endorse child molestation, rape, kidnapping, murder or any other acts that infringe upon other people. Nor will it.
Contrary to your perverted mind, abortion is murder, and homosexuality is as evil as child molestation and rape.

You are like a frog in hot water who doesn't know he is boiling to death.
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
Just like the homos you delude yourself into thinking you are in the majority, but just like the homos you are just a little pervert with a big mouth looking to spread your disease to whomever you can. You, like them, are worthless maggots.

Oh Sozo it really is you isn't it? The warm feelings flow from your keyboard so naturally . . . .

No, homosexuals are not the majority, except maybe in cabbage town in Toronto and other select neighborhoods. But I'm pretty sure *loving* as opposed to hateful "Christians" such as yourself are actually the majority. :wave2:
 

kmoney

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The Mosque debate is a red herring

By 2012, our national debt will be larger than the entire U.S. economy, according to the International Monetary Fund. So what's on the front burner in Washington these days? Zoning issues in lower Manhattan!

Is it OK to put a Muslim community center close to Ground Zero? I don't know, but local authorities don't seem to mind.

That should settle it, but what Sarah Palin calls the "9/11 mosque" has somehow become a headline-grabbing controversy.

On Friday, President Obama insisted that Muslims have the "same right to practice their religion as anyone else" and can build a mosque near the former World Trade Center site. House minority leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, found the president's comments "deeply troubling." Newt Gingrich accused him of "pandering to radical Islam." (Are there a lot of votes there?)

All this posturing is getting tiresome. The "mosque" controversy isn't about property rights or religious freedom. It's a bogus issue seized by the GOP establishment to distract the rank-and-file from the party's reluctance to shrink government.

From all the caterwauling, you'd think the Park51 group planned to fashion a mock Kaaba out of trade center ashes and mount it atop the wreckage. But you can't see Ground Zero from the Park51 site — it's separated by two canyonlike city blocks, occupying the former site of a Burlington Coat Factory. "Hallowed ground," indeed.

The plans include building a large mosque — and a 500-seat theater, swimming pool and food court — which makes calling it a "mosque" just slightly more accurate than calling a YMCA a "church."

Republicans pose as the party of decentralization, yet here they are reversing Tip O'Neill's dictum, insisting that "all politics is national."

There's plenty of hypocrisy to go around, though. It's insulting to hear New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg, who has persecuted bar owners for the crime of displaying ashtrays, wax rhapsodic about private property.

Apparently, if you want to pray to Mecca, your rights are sacrosanct, but if you'd like a cigarette at the bar after a hard day's work, then head on out to the stoop, peasant.

And while Obama pats himself on the back for defending religious freedom and private property, it's not clear who he's arguing with. The mainstream Right has renounced "using the machinery of government to stop this project," as National Review's editors put it.

You don't need to buy amateur theologian George W. Bush's line that Islam is "a religion of peace" to recognize that the Park51 controversy is a red herring. With Muslims making up 0.8 percent of the U.S. population, dhimmitude seems a more remote threat than national bankruptcy.

In a recent (pre-campaign?) appearance in Des Moines, Iowa, Newt Gingrich denounced Obama's "secular socialist machine," but, when asked, he declined to specify federal programs he would cut.

You see, cutting government is hard, and often unpopular. No surprise, then, that Boehner would rather play urban planner than embrace Wisconsin Republican Rep. Paul Ryan's "road map" for shrinking middle-class entitlements.

Faced with difficult choices, the alleged party of small government always retreats to the lazy politics of Kulturkampf. Hey, that guy's a "card-carrying member" of the ACLU! Ask me about my flag-burning amendment!

John Cornyn, R-Texas, head of GOP efforts to take back the Senate this fall, plans to make the Park51 "mosque" a major campaign issue. It's all too typical: Feed the rubes conservative identity politics, and, with luck, they'll be too distracted to notice you've grafted a Republican "K Street Project" atop the same old edifice of Big Government.

The establishment Right wants to play the Tea Party movement for suckers. It remains to be seen whether they'll play along.
 

Non-Excluvistic

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Banned
Did you forget who you were talking to?
What's concerning is how many people on here like what madman says undercover. How is it possible to have that many rep bars with his amount of comments if there aren't people reppin the heck out of this guys hateful talk.
 
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