toldailytopic: How do you feel about building a mosque at ground zero?

[Non-Excluvistic]

irrational fear band wagon jumping.
It doesn't matter about existing mosques and it doesn't matter that other insensitivies have occurred. We are attempting to deal with this issue. The building of a mosque is obviously not the issue. As you have pointed out other mosques already exist. The issue, right or wrong, is sensitivity to the feelings of one's neighbors.

Ummm, people who attended the mosque builders current mosque 5 blocks away died on 911. So are they being insensitive for wanting to build a mosque 3 blocks away from where there family and religious brothers and sisters died?

You are presenting it as if Muslims and other religious members didn't die that day too. The argument does not make any sense. Americans died and Americans are building a mosque. If it is not about religion then why are you singling Americans who had nothing to do with the 911 hijackers out? This all stems from irrational fear and arrogance. It is just another chance to use something to justify dislike and irrational hate of another based on their religion. it is no different than the same fear and irrational hatered many have towards African-Americans. Mexicans and other minorities; people will always use things to jusitfy their wrong feelings.

 

[bybee]

Well

Well

Ummm, people who attended the mosque builders current mosque 5 blocks away died on 911. So are they being insensitive for wanting to build a mosque 3 blocks away from where there family and religious brothers and sisters died?

You are presenting it as if Muslims and other religious members didn't die that say too. The argument does not make any sense. Americans died and Americans are building a mosque. If it is not about religion then why are you singling Americans who had nothing to do with the 911 hijackers out?

I am advocating consideration for the feelings of one's neighbors.
And I repeat, it is legal, go ahead and build the mosque!
For the record, human beings died that day. Peoples family members died that day. Beloved person's died that day. New York City lost many people who fight fires and maintain law and order.
Those people who survived this blood bath and those who witnessed the carnage are left with intense grief. It will take years for this to subside.
I ask you a Muslim, is it asking too much that, in view of the obvious and widely held pain over the use of this site for a mosque, that
another site be chosen?
bybee

 

[fool]

I am advocating consideration for the feelings of one's neighbors.
And I repeat, it is legal, go ahead and build the mosque!
For the record, human beings died that day. Peoples family members died that day. Beloved person's died that day. New York City lost many people who fight fires and maintain law and order.
Those people who survived this blood bath and those who witnessed the carnage are left with intense grief. It will take years for this to subside.
I ask you a Muslim, is it asking too much that, in view of the obvious and widely held pain over the use of this site for a mosque, that
another site be chosen?
bybee

The "pain" over the site of this Mosque exists only in the mind of bigots.
The congregation at this Mosque lost people on that day, they ARE the victims families, if people REALLY wanted to be sensitive to the victims families they would push the Mosque thru.
It's a betrayal to those victims that 9 years later their Mosque is being targeted by a nationwide campaign against them.
It's a betrayal of every soldier who fought and died for our freedom across our entire history.
It's a betrayal of every Muslim soldier and cop in Iraq and Afganistan that have fought along side us all these years.
It's a betrayal of our very core values that have made us a nation.
"Land of the Free" (just don't be building a Mosque in lower Manhattan) doesn't quite sound right.

 

[firon]

Outlaw Islam in America

Outlaw Islam in America

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for August 16th, 2010 11:23 AM

toldailytopic: How do you feel about building a mosque at ground zero?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

Islam adheres to a form of law which is not legal in America. Not only do they adhere to a dreadful code, but they believe that we who love America are obligated to accept their laws. Therefore, send them back to where they came from. They have no legal right to live in America under the ghastly form of law which is so contrary to American law. They have their Sharia. Let them live it in the country from which they came. They want to live under their own laws, which is to live in America as outlaws. Do not allow such foolishness. Deportation is the only proper measure for those who will bnot willingly live in accord with American law.

 

[Non-Excluvistic]

I am advocating consideration for the feelings of one's neighbors.
And I repeat, it is legal, go ahead and build the mosque!
For the record, human beings died that day. Peoples family members died that day. Beloved person's died that day. New York City lost many people who fight fires and maintain law and order.
Those people who survived this blood bath and those who witnessed the carnage are left with intense grief. It will take years for this to subside.
I ask you a Muslim, is it asking too much that, in view of the obvious and widely held pain over the use of this site for a mosque, that
another site be chosen?
bybee

Again, you aren't answering what I posted, and choosing to ignore it.

What about the Muslim families who are members of the current Mosque which is owned by the builders of the new mosque? They are families of those who died on 911 too. They support the mosque. Why are you hand waving them and their feelings? Are you not sensitive to them, just because they are Muslim? They surely felt the lose that day, and they support it, so are they being insensitive or disrespectful to themselves? Is this some form of self hate? You are only presenting one portion of the people who died on 911. Christians aren't the only ones. Americans died that day, and Americans are building the mosque.

How are those who lost lives on that day being insensitive for supporting the new mosque?

 

[bybee]

Pay attention

Pay attention

Again, you aren't answering what I posted, and choosing to ignore it.

What about the Muslim families who are members of the current Mosque which is owned by the builders of the new mosque? They are families of those who died on 911 too. They support the mosque. Why are you hand waving them and their feelings? Are you not sensitive to them, just because they are Muslim? They surely felt the lose that day, and they support it, so are they being insensitive or disrespectful to themselves? Is this some form of self hate? You are only presenting one portion of the people who died on 911. Christians aren't the only ones. Americans died that day, and Americans are building the mosque.

How are those who lost lives on that day being insensitive for supporting the new mosque?

People died. I am a nurse. I never look at an injured or hurting person to find out what religion he/she is! That doesn't matter.
I am deeply respectful of all persons who experienced loss on 9/11.
It is you who represents only a portion of the people who suffered on 9/11. Sorrow is sorrow.
I am not opposed to the building of the mosque. I am respectful of houses of worship and the people who dedicate much of their time, talent and money to support them.
Christians build churches. Jewish people build synagogues. Muslims build mosques. This is quite separate from being an American.
I did not say that those who wish to build this mosque on this site were being insensitive. I don't believe it entered their consideration that it was insensitive nor was it mean to be insensitive.
But, I ask them to reconsider the site in view of their neighbors voiced pain.
bybee

 

[Nick M]

A great deal of you are flaming idiots. Building this is akin to Israel allowing a shrine to be built honoring Auschwitz in the old city. It has nothing to do with wanting to worship. Get your brains out of neutral. Or leave them there, I don't really care as long as you don't vote.

 

[Non-Excluvistic]

But, I ask them to reconsider the site in view of their neighbors voiced pain.
bybee

But the supporters that are currently members of the mosque builders current mosque have the same pain and loss from 911. They lost people on 911 and they are Muslims in support of the new mosque. Your leaving out the main ingredient in the protest against the new mosque. We know what that is, and I don't know why people are so disingenuous about it.

Muslims who are families of those who died on 911 support the mosque. None Muslim people who didn't even have family die on that day and some who did, oppose it.

:think: wonder why it's this way. This is simply religious bigotry that lies at the the heart of this opposition. Muslim terrorist attacked us on 911, so we are against Muslims building the mosque. That is the only real argument. The sad part is, is that is the stuff bigotry is made of.

 

[bybee]

My young friend

My young friend

But the supporters that are currently members of the mosque builders current mosque have the same pain and loss from 911. They lost people on 911 and they are Muslims in support of the new mosque. Your leaving out the main ingredient in the protest against the new mosque. We know what that is, and I don't know why people are so disingenuous about it.

Muslims who are families of those who died on 911 support the mosque. None Muslim people who didn't even have family die on that day and some who did, oppose it.

:think: wonder why it's this way. This is simply religious bigotry that lies at the the heart of this opposition. Muslim terrorist attacked us on 911, so we are against Muslims building the mosque. That is the only real argument. The sad part is, is that is the stuff bigotry is made of.

I am afraid you are displaying a bit of bigotry yourself by stating that it is only religious bigotry which is against the building of that mosque in that place. Not so. There are many reasons within the opposition.
We shall never be free of religious bigotry. It exists and reasonable people of good will fight it when they encounter it.
I believe it would be better for all concerned if this mosque would be built elsewhere.
I respect the right of others to feel differently.
bybee

 

[Town Heretic]

The "pain" over the site of this Mosque exists only in the mind of bigots.

I disagree, though I support the construction of a house of worship as being an essential American right to both property and the free exercise of religious belief. The response to this is, perhaps, more a matter of poorly reasoned conclusion laced with fear and paranoia, and driven by the media's exclusive focus on celebratory elements within the Muslim community in the wake of 911, along with a declaration by that same media that American Islam was insufficiently outraged and vocal in its condemnation of the atrocity.

There is a measure of truth in the criticism, though there are understandable reasons why a community looked upon prior to that with suspicion and, often enough, hostility might be reticent to antagonize those capable of that sort of devastating violence. A bit like poking the tiger when the trees are filled with people disinclined to give you a hand up.

The congregation at this Mosque lost people on that day, they ARE the victims families, if people REALLY wanted to be sensitive to the victims families they would push the Mosque thru.

I think that, coupled with a public recognition/reminder by those building it would be a fine thing for the city and the nation. Were it my building I'd have a commemoration of the event in some form...perhaps a plaque decrying the cowardice of violence against the innocent in the name of God and a dedication to the principles of justice and of peace...could be quite a moment.

It's a betrayal to those victims that 9 years later their Mosque is being targeted by a nationwide campaign against them.

I think it is, rather, emblematic of the great ethnocentric chasm in America separating those who readily assimilate and/or demonstrably respect the traditions and institutions of the dominant culture and those who both are and are widely considered/identified as being more resistant to it.

...It's a betrayal of our very core values that have made us a nation. "Land of the Free" (just don't be building a Mosque in lower Manhattan) doesn't quite sound right.

Where I see it as a mostly curable state driven by the moment. We should remember our response to Americans of Japanese descent and strive to distance ourselves from even the appearance of a similarly singular and ill considered mindset.

 

[Non-Excluvistic]

I am afraid you are displaying a bit of bigotry yourself by stating that it is only religious bigotry which is against the building of that mosque in that place.
bybee

But it is motivated by that Bybee. Muslims were involved in 911, so why are they building a mosque to rub it in our face. People are associating all Muslims and Islam in general as the offender and considering it disrespectful for the offender to build over what they have done to us. That's what it is.

If it was a Muslim building a coffee shop no one would care. it is religious bigotry plain and simple. If not, what does the mosque builder have to do with 911 other than he wants to build a Muslim mosque?

 

[fool]

People died. I am a nurse. I never look at an injured or hurting person to find out what religion he/she is! That doesn't matter.
I am deeply respectful of all persons who experienced loss on 9/11.
It is you who represents only a portion of the people who suffered on 9/11. Sorrow is sorrow.
I am not opposed to the building of the mosque. I am respectful of houses of worship and the people who dedicate much of their time, talent and money to support them.
Christians build churches. Jewish people build synagogues. Muslims build mosques. This is quite separate from being an American.
I did not say that those who wish to build this mosque on this site were being insensitive. I don't believe it entered their consideration that it was insensitive nor was it mean to be insensitive.
But, I ask them to reconsider the site in view of their neighbors voiced pain.
bybee

They should ignore their neighbors pain as the whining of bigots.
Blocking these peoples Mosque from being built where ever they can secure property and permits is bigotry.
Trying to block their permit based on the fact that they're a Mosque is bigotry.

My cousin was murdered by a black man, should black people be "sensitive to my pain" and not buy the house next to me?
Of course not.
Should people of the same religion as is murderer not move in next to me?
Of course not.
Wat if they drive the same car?
None of this would ever enter my head, and it's quite telling which heads it was not only allowed to enter but how voiciforously it was espoused.

 

[bybee]

So

So

They should ignore their neighbors pain as the whining of bigots.
Blocking these peoples Mosque from being built where ever they can secure property and permits is bigotry.
Trying to block their permit based on the fact that they're a Mosque is bigotry.

My cousin was murdered by a black man, should black people be "sensitive to my pain" and not buy the house next to me?
Of course not.
Should people of the same religion as is murderer not move in next to me?
Of course not.
Wat if they drive the same car?
None of this would ever enter my head, and it's quite telling which heads it was not only allowed to enter but how voiciforously it was espoused.

Anyone who doesn't agree with your take on this situation is to be branded a bigot?
Very interesting....

 

[madman]

How about a statue of Timothy McVeigh in downtown OKC?
Perhaps we could carve the faces of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold at Red Rocks.
Subway could create a Jeffrey Dahmer special meat sandwich in Milwaukee
Or better yet, we could construct an Obama library anywhere in America

 

[fool]

We should remember our response to Americans of Japanese descent and strive to distance ourselves from even the appearance of a similarly singular and ill considered mindset.

So you agree.

 

[fool]

Anyone who doesn't agree with your take on this situation is to be branded a bigot?
Very interesting....

Based on the soundness of my reasoning of course.
Which each partaker will have to assess for themselves.

 

[bybee]

Well

Well

But it is motivated by that Bybee. Muslims were involved in 911, so why are they building a mosque to rub it in our face. People are associating all Muslims and Islam in general as the offender and considering it disrespectful for the offender to build over what they have done to us. That's what it is.

If it was a Muslim building a coffee shop no one would care. it is religious bigotry plain and simple. If not, what does the mosque builder have to do with 911 other than he wants to build a Muslim mosque?

What you say has truth in it. Under the circumstances I have counseled a compromise.
But if compromise cannot be worked out then according to law the mosque will be built. And I worry about repercussions against every day people going to worship. This should not be.
I personally do not have an interest in whether this mosque is built or not. Better a mosque than many other unworthy kinds of places.
Perhaps Muslims must stand their ground on this situation. I had hoped that an arrangement could be worked out that would save face all way round. For this reason mainly, little children will have to walk the streets to get to that mosque. I pray that they will be safe.
bybee

 

[Town Heretic]

So you agree.

With the right, certainly. With the rightness of it even, unquestionably. It is a very American notion, though one we've failed often enough in the past for want of a thorough self examination...That said, we differ in terms of the framing in both how I hope to see the construction and spirit of address and in how I view many of those whose voices are raised in objection. I firmly believe that a response of the sort I suggested would salvage the moment from an element long accustomed to using the worst in us to fuel their agenda.

 

[bybee]

Amen

Amen

With the right, certainly. With the rightness of it even, unquestionably. It is a very American notion, though one we've failed often enough in the past for want of a thorough self examination...That said, we differ in terms of the framing in both how I hope to see the construction and spirit of address and in how I view many of those whose voices are raised in objection. I firmly believe that a response of the sort I suggested would salvage the moment from an element long accustomed to using the worst in us to fuel their agenda.

Agreed.
bybee

 

[fool]

How about a statue of Timothy McVeigh in downtown OKC?
Perhaps we could carve the faces of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold at Red Rocks.
Subway could create a Jeffrey Dahmer special meat sandwich in Milwaukee
Or better yet, we could construct an Obama library anywhere in America

You got anything not flamingly stupid to say?
No?
Is there still an arcade for the kids to go play in?