toldailytopic: Hate the sin, love the sinner?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Laziness causes one to hate the sinner, not just the sin. That's not the only attribute assigned to such warrant. On the other hands, a false relationship with love causes others to love the sinner because they love sin. Try going only halfway down a water slide: gravity, water, momentum, the slide, the thrill, and everybody else waiting in line, who are next to enjoy this water slide ride, won't let you: neither will sin.
The book of Proverbs will tell you to not let bad company corrupt good morals, because bad friends is like an even bigger water slide. Because you love your sinner friends, you will begin to start liking their sins and join in because everybody's doing it.
On the other hand, some people hate sin so much that they begin hating the sinners, too. They become ineffective at discipleship, evangelism, at living, at encouraging, at teaching, rebuking, in anything, really, because their unbalanced fear for sin has mutated into a type of fear of man, rather than a fear of God.
It is good to hate sin and to love the sinner. However, it is really hard to balance between the two.
The book of Proverbs will tell you to not let bad company corrupt good morals, because bad friends is like an even bigger water slide. Because you love your sinner friends, you will begin to start liking their sins and join in because everybody's doing it.
On the other hand, some people hate sin so much that they begin hating the sinners, too. They become ineffective at discipleship, evangelism, at living, at encouraging, at teaching, rebuking, in anything, really, because their unbalanced fear for sin has mutated into a type of fear of man, rather than a fear of God.
It is good to hate sin and to love the sinner. However, it is really hard to balance between the two.
truthteller86
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Love and hate are not mutually exclusive.
There are many people described in the Bible as being hated by God (You are smart enough to look it up, so I'm not listing them. Plus it would be a good exercise for you). However God still loves the world (i.e. His special creation [er humans]) to the extent that He died for us all, the greatest act of Love. Of course, we have the option to accept or reject His love.
Contrary to popular belief, the opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is apathy.
I hate child molesters (and other despicable people deserving of death), however I love them enough to warn them if they do not repent and ask Jesus Christ to forgive and save them, then they will receive the penalty due. If not in this life, certainly in the next.
There are many people described in the Bible as being hated by God (You are smart enough to look it up, so I'm not listing them. Plus it would be a good exercise for you). However God still loves the world (i.e. His special creation [er humans]) to the extent that He died for us all, the greatest act of Love. Of course, we have the option to accept or reject His love.
Contrary to popular belief, the opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is apathy.
I hate child molesters (and other despicable people deserving of death), however I love them enough to warn them if they do not repent and ask Jesus Christ to forgive and save them, then they will receive the penalty due. If not in this life, certainly in the next.
That is the truth.
Let's be honest, the reason this subject is coming up is because THE BOB has declared that one should hate both sin and sinner. The last time I addressed this notion I was banned.
So, tell me Knight, do you really want our opinion or do you want a gallery of parrots to offer back what THE BOB casts forth?
So, tell me Knight, do you really want our opinion or do you want a gallery of parrots to offer back what THE BOB casts forth?
I think this is a valid question.
Forget "Hate the sin but love the sinner". Conservatives hould just learn to mind their own goddam business !!!!!
I'm sick of self-righteous conservatives busybodies going around and judging everybody.
The Bible also says "Judge not lest ye be judged".
People are always trying to police other people's morality while behaving immorally themselves.
I'm sick of self-righteous conservatives busybodies going around and judging everybody.
The Bible also says "Judge not lest ye be judged".
People are always trying to police other people's morality while behaving immorally themselves.
You're a judgmental little fool aren't ya!?
No, he is not a fool.
coulter4president
New member
coulter4president
New member
it's easy for some to say Love the sinner, hate the sin...
it's easy for any of us...
when the sin is not committed against US
But if we put ourselves in the shoes of those who suffer the evil of others... (abortion).. well, that's the only way we can begin to realiz how awful evil is..
it's interesting that in the OT God didn't SEEM to take into consideration... loving the sinner.. He just got rid of ppl as soon as they sinned..
have to confess i sometimes wish he still did that..
but i can understand why he gives ppl ample time to repents.. .We're kinda slow-witted about giving up sin... giving it once and for all...
it's easy for any of us...
when the sin is not committed against US
But if we put ourselves in the shoes of those who suffer the evil of others... (abortion).. well, that's the only way we can begin to realiz how awful evil is..
it's interesting that in the OT God didn't SEEM to take into consideration... loving the sinner.. He just got rid of ppl as soon as they sinned..
have to confess i sometimes wish he still did that..
but i can understand why he gives ppl ample time to repents.. .We're kinda slow-witted about giving up sin... giving it once and for all...
loving the sinner, hating the sin
loving the sinner, hating the sin
While there are numerous excellent scriptures for this, it strikes me-- from over 3 decades having a real struggle with this concept-- that examples are best.
Ever notice that Jesus is never shown to "be mean" to sinners?
Indeed, he came to call sinners to repentance, and not the righteous. We further see that he came to call the sick, and not the healthy.
With the religious, or self-proclaimed "righteous" Jesus nails them to the wall.
Indeed, at one point he tells them-- go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.
We further see it referenced of him, as a quote out of Isaiah- A smoking flax he will not quench, nor a bent reed will be break.
I get that even if your flame is so low that it's barely letting off smoke, or your life is so overloaded with heartache, and pain, that you've all but snapped off just above the root-- i.e., you're barely hanging on-- God will not Tower over you like some big, mean, loathsome giant, or tyrant, and say-- how dare you.... Why I oughta..... Or for the older among you-- Jackie Gleason's-- To the Moon Alice...... from Honeymooner's.
The past year and a half, I've been involved in an homeless outreach in the town where I live.
We feed the homeless, give them clothing, just sit and talk (we ask how they're doing, what can we do to assist them, general chit chat, let them know they matter, and why we come, etc....) with them, I'm learning to listen more too, etc....
I have to say that while no one has gotten saved yet-- in an outward manner that's clear/obvious to me (I can be really dense when it comes to relationships with people, so I mean that no one has prayed the sinner's prayer, told me they want to follow Jesus, etc...)-- but they have recognized the kindness, compassion, gentleness, and the truth.
I have had them ask- would you give me a ride so I can come to your church?
We have handed out bibles, told them about Jesus, how to be saved, etc....
Yet each and every outreach time, they come back for more.
My pastor has a saying, and I know he got it from someone else-- They do not care how much we know, until they know how much we care.
In all my dealings with these people, Love is key. And for a guy like me-- who's really big on theological discussions, arguing deity of Jesus, necessity of the Blood for salvation, etc..., that's a huge recognition. In fact, I'd call it Grace-- as Paul said in 2 Cor. 12:9, and 1 Cor. 15:10
Christ came to save people whose lives have been destroyed by sin, selfishness, etc....
He came to change their hearts, buy back their lives, and make them whole people.
Love changes lives. My life is a first-class example of that.
Hating the sin to me, is simply not partaking of the sin with the sinner.
I.e., I don't sit down and drink with the drinker. I don't imbibe in a smoke with a smoker (of anything), or have sex with someone who really wants to just have sex. etc.....
I show them mercy, kindness, compassion, the Love of Jesus. I don't condemn them. I don't belittle, or demean them. I just show Love-- as Paul describes it in 1 Cor. 13:1-8
I deal patiently. Kindly, gently. I don't get in their face and tell them what rotten people they are. Nor do I tell them how great I am, and look at what a job I'd done in cleaning my life up.
I don't get all uppity, or up in their face, saying if they just tried harder, they could be as good as me, or Jesus.
When I do share my story, I am honest, real, and share what Jesus has done for me- personally. Not only theologically, but for me, as an individual (I look for opportunity to mingle the theological in with it all).
He loved me when I was ready to destroy myself. He promised me a better life, when I wanted nothing more than death to embrace that final embrace.
He walked with me, each and every single day, and showed me mercy in my failings, compassion in my stupidities, and gentleness in my weaknesses. Each day, he was like a Father, or that ideal parent who would hold out their hands, take a hold of mine, and walk those tiny little steps with me. When I'd fall down and cry, he'd come alongside, pick me up, hold me in his arms, and comfort me. As time would move along, he'd show me what it was like to run, jump, play, and do more complicated things. Not once did he ever berate, or demean me. He'd chasten me more than a few times to be sure (although, never, and no where near as brutally as I'd chasten, berate, or beat up on myself). He never once allowed me to get away with squat. When I'd sin, he'd stand there with that-- why did you do that, pained look of heartache, and ask me to come back. I'd have to work through the issues of accountability, and personal responsibility, and yet.... each and every time, he was there, showing me the same kindness, the same love, the same look of compassion I'd seen that very first day.
Loving the sinner is living out 1 Cor 13, Galatians 5 (fruits of the spirit), and the sermon on the mount, in Matt 5-7
Hating the sin, is not joining with their antics.
It's recognizing Galatians 6:1-3.
Moreover, it's recognizing that God's Grace is so ever much more than capable of keeping you from sin. Titus 2:11-14.
Oh.... and above all else-- it's spending time in prayer. This is the one that kept me from recognizing it before. I would talk to God, sure, but I was too stuck on myself, and what I thought it should look like, instead of admitting to God that I had no clue, and needed him to show me what he wanted it to be.
God knows we don't know how his work should/would/could appear. We're the one's who've for some reason gotten it in our heads that we should automatically know these things, and respond with-- Hey God. I'm good here. I can handle this. Thanks. Or, perhaps it really is just me, because I grew up having to figure it all out for myself, and never letting anyone in to help-- when help really was needed.
So, now-- I am honest with God. Sorry God. I've got no clue. Please show me.
According to Titus 2:11-14-- God's Grace teaches us all we need to know.
According to 2 Peter 1:2-4-- God's Grace has provided everything we need to live the godly life, in Christ.
Well, that's my two bits, from my 32+ years of experience....
Grace be with you....
loving the sinner, hating the sin
While there are numerous excellent scriptures for this, it strikes me-- from over 3 decades having a real struggle with this concept-- that examples are best.
Ever notice that Jesus is never shown to "be mean" to sinners?
Indeed, he came to call sinners to repentance, and not the righteous. We further see that he came to call the sick, and not the healthy.
With the religious, or self-proclaimed "righteous" Jesus nails them to the wall.
Indeed, at one point he tells them-- go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.
We further see it referenced of him, as a quote out of Isaiah- A smoking flax he will not quench, nor a bent reed will be break.
I get that even if your flame is so low that it's barely letting off smoke, or your life is so overloaded with heartache, and pain, that you've all but snapped off just above the root-- i.e., you're barely hanging on-- God will not Tower over you like some big, mean, loathsome giant, or tyrant, and say-- how dare you.... Why I oughta..... Or for the older among you-- Jackie Gleason's-- To the Moon Alice...... from Honeymooner's.
The past year and a half, I've been involved in an homeless outreach in the town where I live.
We feed the homeless, give them clothing, just sit and talk (we ask how they're doing, what can we do to assist them, general chit chat, let them know they matter, and why we come, etc....) with them, I'm learning to listen more too, etc....
I have to say that while no one has gotten saved yet-- in an outward manner that's clear/obvious to me (I can be really dense when it comes to relationships with people, so I mean that no one has prayed the sinner's prayer, told me they want to follow Jesus, etc...)-- but they have recognized the kindness, compassion, gentleness, and the truth.
I have had them ask- would you give me a ride so I can come to your church?
We have handed out bibles, told them about Jesus, how to be saved, etc....
Yet each and every outreach time, they come back for more.
My pastor has a saying, and I know he got it from someone else-- They do not care how much we know, until they know how much we care.
In all my dealings with these people, Love is key. And for a guy like me-- who's really big on theological discussions, arguing deity of Jesus, necessity of the Blood for salvation, etc..., that's a huge recognition. In fact, I'd call it Grace-- as Paul said in 2 Cor. 12:9, and 1 Cor. 15:10
Christ came to save people whose lives have been destroyed by sin, selfishness, etc....
He came to change their hearts, buy back their lives, and make them whole people.
Love changes lives. My life is a first-class example of that.
Hating the sin to me, is simply not partaking of the sin with the sinner.
I.e., I don't sit down and drink with the drinker. I don't imbibe in a smoke with a smoker (of anything), or have sex with someone who really wants to just have sex. etc.....
I show them mercy, kindness, compassion, the Love of Jesus. I don't condemn them. I don't belittle, or demean them. I just show Love-- as Paul describes it in 1 Cor. 13:1-8
I deal patiently. Kindly, gently. I don't get in their face and tell them what rotten people they are. Nor do I tell them how great I am, and look at what a job I'd done in cleaning my life up.
I don't get all uppity, or up in their face, saying if they just tried harder, they could be as good as me, or Jesus.
When I do share my story, I am honest, real, and share what Jesus has done for me- personally. Not only theologically, but for me, as an individual (I look for opportunity to mingle the theological in with it all).
He loved me when I was ready to destroy myself. He promised me a better life, when I wanted nothing more than death to embrace that final embrace.
He walked with me, each and every single day, and showed me mercy in my failings, compassion in my stupidities, and gentleness in my weaknesses. Each day, he was like a Father, or that ideal parent who would hold out their hands, take a hold of mine, and walk those tiny little steps with me. When I'd fall down and cry, he'd come alongside, pick me up, hold me in his arms, and comfort me. As time would move along, he'd show me what it was like to run, jump, play, and do more complicated things. Not once did he ever berate, or demean me. He'd chasten me more than a few times to be sure (although, never, and no where near as brutally as I'd chasten, berate, or beat up on myself). He never once allowed me to get away with squat. When I'd sin, he'd stand there with that-- why did you do that, pained look of heartache, and ask me to come back. I'd have to work through the issues of accountability, and personal responsibility, and yet.... each and every time, he was there, showing me the same kindness, the same love, the same look of compassion I'd seen that very first day.
Loving the sinner is living out 1 Cor 13, Galatians 5 (fruits of the spirit), and the sermon on the mount, in Matt 5-7
Hating the sin, is not joining with their antics.
It's recognizing Galatians 6:1-3.
Moreover, it's recognizing that God's Grace is so ever much more than capable of keeping you from sin. Titus 2:11-14.
Oh.... and above all else-- it's spending time in prayer. This is the one that kept me from recognizing it before. I would talk to God, sure, but I was too stuck on myself, and what I thought it should look like, instead of admitting to God that I had no clue, and needed him to show me what he wanted it to be.
God knows we don't know how his work should/would/could appear. We're the one's who've for some reason gotten it in our heads that we should automatically know these things, and respond with-- Hey God. I'm good here. I can handle this. Thanks. Or, perhaps it really is just me, because I grew up having to figure it all out for myself, and never letting anyone in to help-- when help really was needed.
So, now-- I am honest with God. Sorry God. I've got no clue. Please show me.
According to Titus 2:11-14-- God's Grace teaches us all we need to know.
According to 2 Peter 1:2-4-- God's Grace has provided everything we need to live the godly life, in Christ.
Well, that's my two bits, from my 32+ years of experience....
Grace be with you....
So you consider it wise to use the Lord's name in vain?
Did I say that?
If not a fool, if not wise...what then?
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
God must have loved us even while we were still sinners, otherwise He never would have sent His Son to die for us.
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