toldailytopic: Generally speaking, are the stories in the Bible literal or symbolic?

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GuySmiley

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My standing response to questions like this is pretty much what ghost just wrote. I say: Take it literally unless the text demands otherwise.

So in eloyhim's example, for instance, the text demands that the harlot, etc., be representative of something else, because the text demands (by defining) it. But I will say that sometimes it's not quite so easy. In 2,000 years, if someone reads one of our writings and sees the phrase, "I'm gonna hit the hay", they may be confused. But then they may find out that it means "gonna go to bed". And even then, they may think we slept on hay. So when we're dealing with figures of speech, it can be hard sometimes.

I've mostly found that scripture defines scripture, even with idioms like that. But there are some times when I read a figure of speech and maybe I don't know it's a figure of speech. And I'm okay with that; I'd rather be wrong in taking an obscure figure of speech too literally, than be wrong by taking something that's supposed to be literal and relegating it to "figure of speech" status.

My 2 cents...

Randy

:up: Believe God until He gives us a reason to do otherwise. :)

Psalm 91:4

"He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler."

I'd rather look like a naive child in heaven, having believed that God has feathers by which He protects and comforts me, than being cast from His presence because I appeared smart on earth teaching others that the rocks reveal a multi-million year old earth or dispute a global flood.

That's what I was going to say :) :thumb: (I wish)
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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That would be my answer as well.

If someone asked you.... how can you determine what is symbolic and what is literal? How would you respond?
Knight, symbols used in Scripture are figures of representation in which one thing is used to suggest another. The symbol is some literal object that conveys a lesson or truth, e.g.,

Lev 17:11 - literal blood symbolizing life of a human or animal
Exodus 13:21-22 - literal pillar of cloud and fire symbolizing the glory and presence of God
Amos 8:1 - literal summer fruit basket symbolizing the end that comes in judgment (v. 8:2).

Numbers, colors, and metals are also frequently used as symbols in Scripture.

Types are a form of symbols used in Scripture, too. Types are prophetic symbols, such as Melchizedek, David were types of Christ, the earthly tabernacle, or Adam.

Symbols are but a small aspect of the many literary forms in the Scriptures.

Literalism does not mean we take the words of a passage at their face value while ignoring the underlying sense of the words. If we did, we would be imagining God as having wings, giant hands and feet, eyes, Jesus is a wooden door, etc. For something to be literal it must be as simply (plainly) as the writer intended when it was originally written. Literalism does not mean we ignore the underlying sense of the plain intentions of the author. For example, when we read a passage, say, describing God's hand being extended to Israel, we know this does not mean God possesses some giant hand or something.

Thus, by literalism, we mean: take the text at face value and interpret it in its normal or literal sense.

On the passage related to God's arm and hand extended to Israel, Aquinas noted: "
The parabolical sense is contained in the literal, for by words things are signified properly and figuratively. Nor is the figure itself, but that which is figured, the literal sense. When Scripture speaks of God's arm, the literal sense is not that God has such a member, but only what is signified by this member, namely operative power."

So we read the bible as the literal words of God and understand that these words take on a host of literary forms that we must understand in order to get to the underlying sense of the words used by the writer: simile, metaphor, metonomy, synecdoche, personification, athropomorphism, apostrophe, irony, hyperbole, euphemism, litotes, pleonasm, repetition, climax, ellipsis, zeugma, aposiopesis, parable, allegory, dark sayings, riddles, fables, symbols, types, narrative, epic, law, tragedy, poetry, parallelism, lyric, pastoral, praise, wisdom, prophetic, oratory, and apocalyptic (a tip of the hat goes to Bullinger from whom I extracted but a small portion of his list of various literary forms).

AMR
 

StrivesWithGod

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Naturally, anthropomorphisms and prophecies are not meant to be taken literally. This is inevitably going to turn into a dispensationalism debate.
 

Sherman

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for December 27th, 2010 12:00 PM


toldailytopic: Generally speaking, are the stories in the Bible literal or symbolic?

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I take a literal Biblical Inarrantist position. The Bible is a historical document. There are books that are history and there are prophetic books that use more symbolic language to communicate the truth.
 
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Stripe

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I'm with Inzl. The bible is an accurate historical account. Where it it symbolic or metaphorical that is because history recorded the words of a poet, a prophet or a story-teller.
 

chickenman

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I'd rather look like a naive child in heaven, having believed that God has feathers by which He protects and comforts me, than being cast from His presence because I appeared smart on earth teaching others that the rocks reveal a multi-million year old earth or dispute a global flood.

Love this! :up:
 

taikoo

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:

I'd rather look like a naive child in heaven, having believed that God has feathers by which He protects and comforts me, than being cast from His presence because I appeared smart on earth teaching others that the rocks reveal a multi-million year old earth or dispute a global flood.


Its just so amazing to me still, to find out that there are people who could actually come up with something like that.
 

elohiym

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You don't need the Bible to understand the truth of the immortality of the soul. We have the philosophers. :idunno:

Rather than believe the pagan fables of a bunch of dead guys, I'll stick with the heresy that the living Christ taught, that the souls of wicked are destroyed in Gehenna.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

But maybe you think that's just figurative.
 

elohiym

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I'd rather look like a naive child in heaven, having believed that God has feathers by which He protects and comforts me...

You mean God is not really a giant chicken in the sky and chickenman is not God in the flesh? :shocked:
 

nicholsmom

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for December 27th, 2010 12:00 PM


toldailytopic: Generally speaking, are the stories in the Bible literal or symbolic?


The historical stories are actual history, the parables are analogical, the poetic stories take poetic license, and the prophetic stories are highly symbolic.

"Literal" simply means interpreted according to the rules of literature. So, really, all of the Bible ought to be read "literally" according to the genre being read, using the standard rules of grammar, having a decent understanding of the history and how that affects both grammar and original meaning, and remembering that faith requires that we attribute co-authorship of each book to God so that nothing contradicts unnecessarily nor has error that a perfect and omnipotent God can prevent.
 

nicholsmom

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Myth is always symbolic.

Let's compare:

Óðin, Vili, and Vé took Ymir's body to the center of Ginnungagap. From his body, they made the world. Ymir's flesh became the earth, and his unbroken bones the mountains. From his teeth and bone fragments, they made rocks and stones. They used his blood to make the lakes and ocean encircling the world. They raised Ymir's skull over the earth to make the sky and placed a dwarf at each of the four corners to hold up the sky. Glowing embers from Múspell were thrown into the sky to make the sun and moon and stars and planets. Ymir's brains were thrown into the sky to make the clouds. Ymir's eyebrows were used to make a fortification around the world, to protect against the giants. Inside the fortification is Miðgarð, the realm of man.

One day, Óðin, Vili, and Vé were walking along the land and came across two trees with their roots ripped out of the ground. One was an ash, the other an elm. They fashioned these into the first man and woman. Óðin breathed into them the spirit of life. Vili provided consciousness, wits, and a feeling hearts. Vé gave them the gifts of hearing and sight. The man was called Ask (ash) and the woman Embla (elm), and they were given Miðgarð in which to live. All the races of men are descended from them.

- source




1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

- Genesis 1:1-26, the Bible



:think:
 

Buzzword

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nicholsmom said:
The historical stories are actual history, the parables are analogical, the poetic stories take poetic license, and the prophetic stories are highly symbolic.

"Literal" simply means interpreted according to the rules of literature. So, really, all of the Bible ought to be read "literally" according to the genre being read, using the standard rules of grammar, having a decent understanding of the history and how that affects both grammar and original meaning, and remembering that faith requires that we attribute co-authorship of each book to God so that nothing contradicts unnecessarily nor has error that a perfect and omnipotent God can prevent.


I think you mean literary and literarily here.

But yes, agreed on all points otherwise.
 

chickenman

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and that is why Pi =3

What number could the text have presented in order for it to be accurate to you? He built a basin that was 10 cubits across and 30 cubits circumference. If the text would have said 31 cubits in circumference, it would still be inaccurate. If it would have said 31.4159 cubits in circumference, it would still be inaccurate.

So what would the text be required to say in order to pass your test for accuracy?

Furthermore, is it possible that you're not thinking correctly about it? Is it possible that the circumference could actually be exactly 30 cubits, and the span from brim to brim be exactly 10 cubits, if the span was measured from inside brim to inside brim? Afterall, the thickness of it was a handbreadth (I Kings 7:26), so is it possible that the numbers ARE accurate and you just haven't thought of that possibility?

Thanks,
Randy
 

Stripe

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What number could the text have presented in order for it to be accurate to you? He built a basin that was 10 cubits across and 30 cubits circumference. If the text would have said 31 cubits in circumference, it would still be inaccurate. If it would have said 31.4159 cubits in circumference, it would still be inaccurate.

So what would the text be required to say in order to pass your test for accuracy?

Furthermore, is it possible that you're not thinking correctly about it? Is it possible that the circumference could actually be exactly 30 cubits, and the span from brim to brim be exactly 10 cubits, if the span was measured from inside brim to inside brim? Afterall, the thickness of it was a handbreadth (I Kings 7:26), so is it possible that the numbers ARE accurate and you just haven't thought of that possibility?

Thanks,
Randy
This is one of the dumbest "challenges" to the authority of the bible. :chuckle:

The passage is construction descriptions for a real item that was made. Those instructions were followed and something was constructed. If, today, you don't understand the instructions its kinda silly to suggest that pi wasn't what it is for bible authors.
 
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