toldailytopic: Do you think people are showing less respect to the military and if so

[PureX]

I respectfully disagree. Soldiers (like police officers and fire fighters) work in a profession where part of the job requirement is a willingness to put their lives on the line to serve and protect the rest of us.

People become soldiers for all kinds of reasons. Same as cops or fireman.

 

[lightbringer]

The veterans of my generation didn't "believe."
They were either indoctrinated from day 1 to think of the military as humanity's greatest achievement, or enlisted as a means to an end (free college education, vocational training, etc.)

A sad thing to say about any generation, one that has no belief other than the G.I. Bill? I think you misjudge your generation.

The means to an end (college/vocational training)? No wonder so many are disillusioned, risking their lives for training without the realization they may pay for it with their lives...foolishness, no man would join without the understanding that they may end up in a war.

Both groups have now become disillusioned after multiple fruitless combat deployments and a decade of politically motivated military stupidity.

Multiple deployments are a thing of all modern wars, at least we didn't have to go for the duration as our fore fathers did.

The belief that war is stupid is not isolated to your generation.

Everyone should read Generation Kill by Evan Wright.
Especially anyone who still views American soldiers as extras in a John Wayne movie (whether positively or negatively).

I would not base my beliefs on any single book or a movie?

 

[lightbringer]

Except that police and firefighters generally take up the job because they want to help people.

Of course they do in their local area, the military does so around the world.

Is there some personal reason you are so down and out toward the military?

 

[Quincy]

I'd say because of the unpopularity of the current war the military overall has a disconnect with our population. I don't think the individual soldiers get less support though. People still realize they are part of our families, just following orders and sacrificing a lot. People overall are disconnected with our military but they still support the soldiers.

 

[Buzzword]

Of course they do in their local area, the military does so around the world.

That's putting it in vague, idealistic terms.

A fireman who carries my wife out of a burning building or a police officer who pulls over a drunk driver is NOT the same as a soldier a thousand miles away gunning down this or that group of people because he/she was ordered to by politicians with suspect motives.

Is there some personal reason you are so down and out toward the military?

I have at least two friends in every branch except the Coast Guard, and every one of them joined up for one of the two reasons I listed.

They all started out either humorously idealistic or very practical.

For the idealistic ones (who are all Marines, if that means anything), their tours of duty have left them increasingly cynical about the military, the government, and the country as a whole.
Especially given the indoctrination they received from their parents about the military being God's gift to humanity.

For the practical ones, their tours of duty have left them wondering if the training and help with college was worth the shell-shock (I refuse to use the soft language of PTSD), the injuries, and the increasing cynicism about the military, the government, and the country as a whole.


If I could boil my position down to its utmost simplicity, it would be to say that the federal government has demonstrated a horrific lack of responsibility for the American citizens it puts in harm's way, and a belligerent malevolence toward citizens of any nation which even ATTEMPTS to join the big leagues (militarily or economically).

And it has us ordinary people brainwashed into thinking that this malevolence toward anyone different from us is part of the bedrock of our nation's culture.

 

[lightbringer]

That's putting it in vague, idealistic terms.

Originally Posted by lightbringer
Of course they do in their local area, the military does so around the world

Theres nothing vague in my statement!

Is there some personal reason you are so down and out toward the military?

I have at least two friends in every branch except the Coast Guard, and every one of them joined up for one of the two reasons I listed.

So approximately 8 friends, a book and movies is the basis for your view of the American Armed Forces?

They all started out either humorously idealistic or very practical.

Practical I can buy but funny, sorry that is foolish.

If I could boil my position down to its utmost simplicity, it would be to say that the federal government has demonstrated a horrific lack of responsibility for the American citizens it puts in harm's way, and a belligerent malevolence toward citizens of any nation which even ATTEMPTS to join the big leagues (militarily or economically).

It would have been easier to just say you were anti-establishment!

And it has us ordinary people brainwashed into thinking that this malevolence toward anyone different from us is part of the bedrock of our nation's culture.

Sorry to hear that you think you are brainwashed, but I can agree with you, I'm just not sure by whom!

 

[Zeke]

I've never met a Veteran of War that thought they were sacred.

But, they are not like anyone else...they are men/women that believe strongly enough to risk their lives for that belief.



How about buying a $2 flag and plant it at the end of the drive or better yet spend $20 and hang one from your house, it is after all only one day of the year to show your respect toward those that served.



This is where you are wrong, there is no us, it is a club of participation, let them have this little thing on one day of the year without an attempt to join something that few can claim!

Respect toward the military has increased since the Vietnam conflict, thank goodness, it was not unusual to have protesters throw things at us as we returned nor unusual for a man in uniform to be slapped in public, sad times and difficult for those that experienced it...towards the end of Vietnam I was on recruiting duty, shopping in a grocery store in full dress blues, a woman approached me, I braced for what ever tirade she was about to throw at me, instead she hugged me and said "thank God there are still men willing to stand for what is right!", I couldn't say anything to her for a moment, I was choked up for a second, as she was leaving all that I was able to say was, thank you for your belief in freedom!

Plenty of vets know it wasn't right! And know their brothers and sisters died for nothing, to claim otherwise is a lie.

 

[TomO]

Plenty of vets know it wasn't right! And know their brothers and sisters died for nothing, to claim otherwise is a lie.

ITT Alternate Universe logarithms verify the unknowable. lain:

 

[lightbringer]

Plenty of vets know it wasn't right! And know their brothers and sisters died for nothing, to claim otherwise is a lie.

Are you having difficulty reading my posts?

No where have I made any statement about what opinion all Vets have, that is each individuals right, but you hastily jump right in with calling liar...foolishness!

 

[noguru]

Are you having difficulty reading my posts?

No where have I made any statement about what opinion all Vets have, that is each individuals right, but you hastily jump right in with calling liar...foolishness!

That's Zeke for you. He is not much of a comprehensive thinker.

 

[Buzzword]

Theres nothing vague in my statement!

I've given two examples of how firemen and police officers "help people."

You gave zero examples of soldiers helping people"around the world," simply assuming that all involved in the discussion would automatically known what you meant without further clarification.

Thus, VAGUE.

So approximately 8 friends, a book and movies is the basis for your view of the American Armed Forces?

I never said that movies influence my view of the military.

I don't have any personal experiences with the military EXCEPT through the people I've known who have served.
Why shouldn't I base my opinion on their experiences, given that I trust their judgment?

Practical I can buy but funny, sorry that is foolish.

You apparently missed the actual adjective I used: humorously IDEALISTIC.

It would have been easier to just say you were anti-establishment!

How do you get that from my desire to see the federal government held accountable for its criminal negligence and belligerence?

Sorry to hear that you think you are brainwashed, but I can agree with you, I'm just not sure by whom!

You seriously have issues picking out a few words and judging the entire section by them.

Also, ending your sentences with exclamation marks does not enhance your argument in any way.

P.P.S. - I noticed you didn't respond to the servicemen stories.
Do you agree or disagree with their reaction to being manhandled like pawns in a dime-store chessgame?

 

[lightbringer]

I don't have any personal experiences with the military

Exactly!

 

[Buzzword]

Exactly!

....and? Did you stop reading after that or something?

Got my hopes up when I saw you had posted on the thread.


God forbid you give some actual counterpoints.

 

[Sherman]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 11th, 2012 09:33 AM

toldailytopic: Do you think people are showing less respect to the military and if so, why?

I'll put in my two cents worth as a veteran. Firstly being in the military takes discipline and they answer to authority figures. Many young people and even adults these days are not taught discipline and they disrespect authority. Secondly, young people are bombarded with political correctness--peace at all cost, even if it mean gutting the military. In many movies military people are depicted as bad.Case in point is the film Avatar where there are evil military characters and the scientists and environmentalists are the good guys. Kids are often taught to respect the life of a terrorist while not even caring for the unborn. We have schools teaching kids Muslim culture for crying out loud! The Government hasn't helped either. We've had politicians using the military as a social engineering experiment. First it was 'Don't Ask Don't Tell', then it was perverts serving openly. We now have poor morale and disrespect going rampant within the ranks of the military. Now some extreme conservative groups such as Westboro Baptist don't support the military either.