How? Who would represent the defence? :idunno:
toldailytopic: Animal Rights. What rights (if any) should animals have?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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How? Who would represent the defence? :idunno:
Tyrathca
New member
*Pictures a dolphin in a suit cross-examining a comically bandaged seal while a shark looks on from the defendants seat...* "Mr Seal, could you please point out to me who bit you?"
:doh:
ragTagblues
New member
Someone may have already said this as I kinda skipped ahead a few posts . . .
I am all for treating animals with decency, there is no point in putting any animal through meaningless suffering . . . . although I do really enjoy veal and foi grass!
Shouldn't treating animals decently already be there? It is proven free range animals give a better produce both flavour wise and nutrients wise, so by treating animals well are own diets can only improve. So surely the only way to go for the betterment of mankind is to treat those that feed us well?
I am all for treating animals with decency, there is no point in putting any animal through meaningless suffering . . . . although I do really enjoy veal and foi grass!
Shouldn't treating animals decently already be there? It is proven free range animals give a better produce both flavour wise and nutrients wise, so by treating animals well are own diets can only improve. So surely the only way to go for the betterment of mankind is to treat those that feed us well?
I guess what gets me confused is the attitude that since we don't "have" to treat animals decently we should treat them poorly in turn.
When it comes to veal, foie gras, and the like: I enjoy both foods an awful lot. But, again--it's possible to get them without being a sadist. As for an animal having "rights"? I'm not sold on the idea, but as caretakers of this planet I'd say we have a duty to treat them well.
BabyChristian
New member
Does God hear the cries of those who do not communicate in human language? Does His heart respond to the fearful mewing of a motherless kitten or the exhaustion of a donkey staggering under a load far too heavy for it? Does He care about the animals that are bred in cramped quarters and exploited for profit? Does He care about animals who are made to fight to the death, as men watch and gamble on which one will win? Does God approve of men who race dogs until they drop dead of exhaustion? What about spearing a bull to death after it performs before a blood thirsty crowd? Did He create animals to be used in such a way?
We know from scripture that God was so interested in the welfare of the animal kingdom that He created, that He even commanded Noah, in the time of judgement on the earth, to make the ark big enough to hold two of every kind of animal that existed.
The Bible actually has much to say in regard to animal abuse. In the beginning, God created the earth and all the creatures on it to be under the authority of humanity. He entrusted these beautiful elements of His creation to our care (Genesis 1:26). Our sinful nature causes us to abuse the animal kingdom, sometimes without even realizing it. Yet, God expects the Christian, above all others, to be sensitive to all of His creation, knowing that exploiting or abusing it shows a disrespect for God Himself. Abuse of anything that God made is not the character of God, but rather of the Evil One.
Domestic Animals: "A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel" (Proverbs 12:10). Throughout the Bible, God shows how He expects us to care for our animals in practical ways. In the Law of the Israelites, for example, one of the purposes of the Sabbath year of rest for the land, was to let the land lie fallow--and so that the poor as well as livestock and wild animals could eat from it (Exodus 23:11 and Leviticus 25:7). The Sabbath day itself was not only for humans to rest. God also commanded us to give our animals rest on the same day. (Exodus 20:10). He also commanded the Israelites to help both their friends and enemies when their ox or donkey had fallen over, or was carrying a burden too heavy for it to bear (Exodus 23:5 and Deuteronomy 22:4). In addition, livestock were also allowed to eat as they worked (Deuteronomy 25:4). Finally, God says to us in Proverbs 27:23: "Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds."
Part of the reason that God anointed young David to be king over Israel, was that he was a good shepherd and could be trusted with the sheep under his care, even risking his life for them when they were attacked by lions or bears (1 Samuel 17:34). God knew that if David had this sort of heart for his sheep, he would be a faithful shepherd over an even greater treasure--the people of Israel.
Wild Animals--His eye is on the sparrow: In addition to domesticated animals, God also watches over wild animals and commands us to do the same. In Deuteronomy 22:6-7, God promises a long life to those who will watch over wild birds. If we rape the land or the creatures in it, what will sustain us in the future? He allows for the taking of eggs, but commands that we release the mother bird to continue living in the wild and reproducing as He intended. In Job 38:41, God says that He hears the cries of newborn ravens crying to Him for food. Jesus went on to say that God supplies food for the wild birds and that not one of them falls to the ground without Him knowing it.
Matthew 6:26: "Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?"
These small, but kind and practical commands written throughout the Bible give us good insight into how God expects us to treat animals. Surely we will have to answer to Him for any abuse that we have committed against them. God created animals for us to love and to learn from. In them, we see our own dependance upon God illustrated in their dependance upon us. We can also see elements of our foolishness manifested in them (who has not seen a crowing rooster and laughed at the comic caricature of ourselves crowing to all the world in our foolish pride at times?) In addition, God also tells us to learn from their wisdom:
"Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest" (Proverbs 6:6-8).
(Job 12:7-10 KJV) "But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind."
Although worship of animals as deities is strictly forbidden in Scripture, we are to respect them as a part of God's creation. Some believe that because only humans were created in God's image, they alone are worthy of respect and care. Yet, the Bible tells us that even the angels were not created in God's image, yet we are to respect them! We are to respect all of God's created order, not to worship facets of it, but to see in it the same call that we ourselves have, which is to glorify God. All of God's creation was made with the ability and the power to glorify Him, each in different ways. In this, animals, as well as humans, share a common element with the rest of creation. Perhaps the words from these Psalms say it best of all (emphasis added):
Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him from the heights above.
Praise him all his angels, praise him, all his heavenly hosts.
Praise him, sun and moon, praise him all you shining stars.
Praise him, you highest heavens and you waters above the skies.
Let them praise the name of the Lord, for he commanded and they were created.
He set them in place forever and ever; he gave a decree that will never pass away.
Praise the Lord from the earth, you great sea creatures and all ocean depths, lightening and hail, snow and clouds, stormy winds that do his bidding, you mountains and all hills, fruit trees and all cedars, wild animals and all cattle, small creatures and flying birds kings of the earth and all nations, you princes and all rulers on earth young men and maidens, old men and children.
Let them praise the name of the Lord, for His name alone is exalted;
His splendor is above the earth and the heavens (Psalm 148: 1-13).
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord (Psalm 150:6).
Some people don't abuse animals, but go to the opposite extreme and place animals above human life. This was not God's intention either, but rather that He wanted to bless mankind with a wonderful world of creatures that we could enjoy and with that enjoyment, He also holds us responsible, as to how we treat and care for them. May we all take that responsibility seriously, as we shall be judged for the way we treat animals and all of God's creation.
http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=212
We know from scripture that God was so interested in the welfare of the animal kingdom that He created, that He even commanded Noah, in the time of judgement on the earth, to make the ark big enough to hold two of every kind of animal that existed.
The Bible actually has much to say in regard to animal abuse. In the beginning, God created the earth and all the creatures on it to be under the authority of humanity. He entrusted these beautiful elements of His creation to our care (Genesis 1:26). Our sinful nature causes us to abuse the animal kingdom, sometimes without even realizing it. Yet, God expects the Christian, above all others, to be sensitive to all of His creation, knowing that exploiting or abusing it shows a disrespect for God Himself. Abuse of anything that God made is not the character of God, but rather of the Evil One.
Domestic Animals: "A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel" (Proverbs 12:10). Throughout the Bible, God shows how He expects us to care for our animals in practical ways. In the Law of the Israelites, for example, one of the purposes of the Sabbath year of rest for the land, was to let the land lie fallow--and so that the poor as well as livestock and wild animals could eat from it (Exodus 23:11 and Leviticus 25:7). The Sabbath day itself was not only for humans to rest. God also commanded us to give our animals rest on the same day. (Exodus 20:10). He also commanded the Israelites to help both their friends and enemies when their ox or donkey had fallen over, or was carrying a burden too heavy for it to bear (Exodus 23:5 and Deuteronomy 22:4). In addition, livestock were also allowed to eat as they worked (Deuteronomy 25:4). Finally, God says to us in Proverbs 27:23: "Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds."
Part of the reason that God anointed young David to be king over Israel, was that he was a good shepherd and could be trusted with the sheep under his care, even risking his life for them when they were attacked by lions or bears (1 Samuel 17:34). God knew that if David had this sort of heart for his sheep, he would be a faithful shepherd over an even greater treasure--the people of Israel.
Wild Animals--His eye is on the sparrow: In addition to domesticated animals, God also watches over wild animals and commands us to do the same. In Deuteronomy 22:6-7, God promises a long life to those who will watch over wild birds. If we rape the land or the creatures in it, what will sustain us in the future? He allows for the taking of eggs, but commands that we release the mother bird to continue living in the wild and reproducing as He intended. In Job 38:41, God says that He hears the cries of newborn ravens crying to Him for food. Jesus went on to say that God supplies food for the wild birds and that not one of them falls to the ground without Him knowing it.
Matthew 6:26: "Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?"
These small, but kind and practical commands written throughout the Bible give us good insight into how God expects us to treat animals. Surely we will have to answer to Him for any abuse that we have committed against them. God created animals for us to love and to learn from. In them, we see our own dependance upon God illustrated in their dependance upon us. We can also see elements of our foolishness manifested in them (who has not seen a crowing rooster and laughed at the comic caricature of ourselves crowing to all the world in our foolish pride at times?) In addition, God also tells us to learn from their wisdom:
"Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest" (Proverbs 6:6-8).
(Job 12:7-10 KJV) "But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind."
Although worship of animals as deities is strictly forbidden in Scripture, we are to respect them as a part of God's creation. Some believe that because only humans were created in God's image, they alone are worthy of respect and care. Yet, the Bible tells us that even the angels were not created in God's image, yet we are to respect them! We are to respect all of God's created order, not to worship facets of it, but to see in it the same call that we ourselves have, which is to glorify God. All of God's creation was made with the ability and the power to glorify Him, each in different ways. In this, animals, as well as humans, share a common element with the rest of creation. Perhaps the words from these Psalms say it best of all (emphasis added):
Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him from the heights above.
Praise him all his angels, praise him, all his heavenly hosts.
Praise him, sun and moon, praise him all you shining stars.
Praise him, you highest heavens and you waters above the skies.
Let them praise the name of the Lord, for he commanded and they were created.
He set them in place forever and ever; he gave a decree that will never pass away.
Praise the Lord from the earth, you great sea creatures and all ocean depths, lightening and hail, snow and clouds, stormy winds that do his bidding, you mountains and all hills, fruit trees and all cedars, wild animals and all cattle, small creatures and flying birds kings of the earth and all nations, you princes and all rulers on earth young men and maidens, old men and children.
Let them praise the name of the Lord, for His name alone is exalted;
His splendor is above the earth and the heavens (Psalm 148: 1-13).
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord (Psalm 150:6).
Some people don't abuse animals, but go to the opposite extreme and place animals above human life. This was not God's intention either, but rather that He wanted to bless mankind with a wonderful world of creatures that we could enjoy and with that enjoyment, He also holds us responsible, as to how we treat and care for them. May we all take that responsibility seriously, as we shall be judged for the way we treat animals and all of God's creation.
http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=212
:up:
BabyChristian
New member
Tza'ar Ba'alei Chayim: Cruelty to Animals
Judaism places great stress on proper treatment of animals. Unnecessary cruelty to animals is strictly forbidden, and in many cases, animals are accorded the same sensitivity as human beings. This concern for the welfare of animals is unusual in Western civilization. Most civilized nations did not accept this principle until quite recently; cruelty to animals was not outlawed until the 1800s, and even now it is not taken very seriously.
The primary principle behind the treatment of animals in Jewish law is preventing tza'ar ba'alei chayim, the suffering of living creatures. Judaism expresses no definitive opinion as to whether animals actually experience physical or psychological pain in the same way that humans do; however, Judaism has always recognized the link between the way a person treats animals and the way a person treats human beings. A person who is cruel to a defenseless animal will undoubtedly be cruel to defenseless people. Modern psychology confirms this understanding, with many studies finding a relationship between childhood animal cruelty and adult criminal violence. Sadly, the converse is not always true, and those who love animals do not always value human life: Hitler loved animals; the animal rights group PETA wrote a letter to Arafat telling him, when he blows up a bus full of Israelis, could he please not hurt a donkey to do it.
In the Bible, those who care for animals are heroes, while those who hunt animals are villains. Jacob, Moses and King David were all shepherds, people who cared for animals (Gen. 30, Ex. 31, I Sam. 17). The Talmud specifically states that Moses was chosen for his mission because of his skill in caring for animals. "The Holy One, Blessed Be He, said 'Since you are merciful to the flock of a human being, you shall be the shepherd of My flock, Israel.'" Likewise Rebecca was chosen as a wife for Isaac because of her kindness to animals. When Abraham's servant asked for water for himself, she volunteered to water his camels as well, and thereby proved herself a worthy wife (Gen. 24).
On the other hand, the two hunters in the Bible, Nimrod and Esau, are both depicted as villains. The Talmud tells the story of a great rabbi, Judah Ha-Nasi, who was punished with years of kidney stones and other painful ailments because he was insensitive to the fear of a calf being led to slaughter; he was relieved years later when he showed kindness to animals. (Talmud Baba Metzia 85a)
In the Torah, humanity is given dominion over animals (Gen. 1:26), which gives us the right to use animals for legitimate needs. Animal flesh can be consumed for food; animal skins can be used for clothing. The Torah itself must be written on parchment (animal hides), as must mezuzah scrolls, and tefillin must be made out of leather.
However, dominion does not give us the right to cause indiscriminate pain and destruction. We are permitted to use animals in this way only when there is a genuine, legitimate need, and we must do so in the manner that causes the animal the least suffering. Kosher slaughtering is designed to be as fast and painless as possible, and if anything occurs that might cause pain (such as a nick in the slaughtering knife or a delay in the cutting), the flesh may not be consumed. Hunting for sport is strictly prohibited, and hunting and trapping for legitimate needs is permissible only when it is done in the least painful way possible.
Under Jewish law, animals have some of the same rights as humans do. Animals rest on Shabbat, as humans do (Ex. 20:10). We are forbidden to muzzle an ox to prevent it from eating while it is working in the field (Deut. 25:4), just as we must allow human workers to eat from the produce they are harvesting (Deut. 23:25-26). Animals can partake of the produce from fields lying fallow during the sabbatical year (Ex. 23:11).
Several commandments demonstrate concern for the physical or psychological suffering of animals. We may not plow a field using animals of different species (Deut. 22:10), because this would be a hardship to the animals. We are required to relieve an animal of its burden, even if we do not like its owner, do not know its owner, or even if it is ownerless (Ex. 23:5; Deut. 22:4). We are not permitted to kill an animal in the same day as its young (Lev. 22:28), and are specifically commanded to send away a mother bird when taking the eggs (Deut 22:6-7), because of the psychological distress this would cause the animal. In fact, the Torah specifically says that a person who sends away the mother bird will be rewarded with long life, precisely the same reward that is given for honoring mother and father (Ex. 20:12; Deut. 5:16), and indeed for observing the whole Torah (Deut. 4:40). This should give some indication of the importance of this law.
We are permitted to violate Shabbat to a limited extent to rescue an animal in pain or at risk of death. For example, we can move them if they are in pain, move objects that we would not otherwise be permitted to touch to relieve their pain, we may give them medicine, and we may ask non-Jews to do things that would violate Shabbat to help a suffering animal.
In the Talmud, the rabbis further dictated that a person may not purchase an animal unless he has made provisions to feed it, and a person must feed his animals before he feeds himself (interpreting Deut. 11:15).
http://www.jewfaq.org/animals.htm
I know we're not Jews but there were many laws given about the treatment of animals.
Judaism places great stress on proper treatment of animals. Unnecessary cruelty to animals is strictly forbidden, and in many cases, animals are accorded the same sensitivity as human beings. This concern for the welfare of animals is unusual in Western civilization. Most civilized nations did not accept this principle until quite recently; cruelty to animals was not outlawed until the 1800s, and even now it is not taken very seriously.
The primary principle behind the treatment of animals in Jewish law is preventing tza'ar ba'alei chayim, the suffering of living creatures. Judaism expresses no definitive opinion as to whether animals actually experience physical or psychological pain in the same way that humans do; however, Judaism has always recognized the link between the way a person treats animals and the way a person treats human beings. A person who is cruel to a defenseless animal will undoubtedly be cruel to defenseless people. Modern psychology confirms this understanding, with many studies finding a relationship between childhood animal cruelty and adult criminal violence. Sadly, the converse is not always true, and those who love animals do not always value human life: Hitler loved animals; the animal rights group PETA wrote a letter to Arafat telling him, when he blows up a bus full of Israelis, could he please not hurt a donkey to do it.
In the Bible, those who care for animals are heroes, while those who hunt animals are villains. Jacob, Moses and King David were all shepherds, people who cared for animals (Gen. 30, Ex. 31, I Sam. 17). The Talmud specifically states that Moses was chosen for his mission because of his skill in caring for animals. "The Holy One, Blessed Be He, said 'Since you are merciful to the flock of a human being, you shall be the shepherd of My flock, Israel.'" Likewise Rebecca was chosen as a wife for Isaac because of her kindness to animals. When Abraham's servant asked for water for himself, she volunteered to water his camels as well, and thereby proved herself a worthy wife (Gen. 24).
On the other hand, the two hunters in the Bible, Nimrod and Esau, are both depicted as villains. The Talmud tells the story of a great rabbi, Judah Ha-Nasi, who was punished with years of kidney stones and other painful ailments because he was insensitive to the fear of a calf being led to slaughter; he was relieved years later when he showed kindness to animals. (Talmud Baba Metzia 85a)
In the Torah, humanity is given dominion over animals (Gen. 1:26), which gives us the right to use animals for legitimate needs. Animal flesh can be consumed for food; animal skins can be used for clothing. The Torah itself must be written on parchment (animal hides), as must mezuzah scrolls, and tefillin must be made out of leather.
However, dominion does not give us the right to cause indiscriminate pain and destruction. We are permitted to use animals in this way only when there is a genuine, legitimate need, and we must do so in the manner that causes the animal the least suffering. Kosher slaughtering is designed to be as fast and painless as possible, and if anything occurs that might cause pain (such as a nick in the slaughtering knife or a delay in the cutting), the flesh may not be consumed. Hunting for sport is strictly prohibited, and hunting and trapping for legitimate needs is permissible only when it is done in the least painful way possible.
Under Jewish law, animals have some of the same rights as humans do. Animals rest on Shabbat, as humans do (Ex. 20:10). We are forbidden to muzzle an ox to prevent it from eating while it is working in the field (Deut. 25:4), just as we must allow human workers to eat from the produce they are harvesting (Deut. 23:25-26). Animals can partake of the produce from fields lying fallow during the sabbatical year (Ex. 23:11).
Several commandments demonstrate concern for the physical or psychological suffering of animals. We may not plow a field using animals of different species (Deut. 22:10), because this would be a hardship to the animals. We are required to relieve an animal of its burden, even if we do not like its owner, do not know its owner, or even if it is ownerless (Ex. 23:5; Deut. 22:4). We are not permitted to kill an animal in the same day as its young (Lev. 22:28), and are specifically commanded to send away a mother bird when taking the eggs (Deut 22:6-7), because of the psychological distress this would cause the animal. In fact, the Torah specifically says that a person who sends away the mother bird will be rewarded with long life, precisely the same reward that is given for honoring mother and father (Ex. 20:12; Deut. 5:16), and indeed for observing the whole Torah (Deut. 4:40). This should give some indication of the importance of this law.
We are permitted to violate Shabbat to a limited extent to rescue an animal in pain or at risk of death. For example, we can move them if they are in pain, move objects that we would not otherwise be permitted to touch to relieve their pain, we may give them medicine, and we may ask non-Jews to do things that would violate Shabbat to help a suffering animal.
In the Talmud, the rabbis further dictated that a person may not purchase an animal unless he has made provisions to feed it, and a person must feed his animals before he feeds himself (interpreting Deut. 11:15).
http://www.jewfaq.org/animals.htm
I know we're not Jews but there were many laws given about the treatment of animals.
I enjoy eating meat ... but I believe that animals deserve to be treated humanely until death... and that death should come as humanely as possible.
People should be held accountable for the torture and neglect of animals, but certainly not as severe as the consequences for harming humans.
One good reason for holding them accountable is that they may have personality disorders, which may ultimately become a threat to human beings - or - they may need help for their "hoarder-type" disorders.
I do think that people can over-do the laws and consequences for protecting animals, so a healthy balance of rights is important.
... and I must laugh when I think about of 19 year old kitty, who died not too many years ago. I had not been around vets who did dentistry for most of her life and had never thought of taking a pet for dental check ups. In her later years I became afraid to take her to the vet because I was concerned that I was going to get into some sort of terrible situation for not ever having had dental work done on her.
I don't think people should be fearful of the law because of any sort of authoritative pet patrol ... but that the pet patrol people should be more for educating people ... or for simply removing abused pets from incapable or mean owners.
He did allow for them to be the foreshadow of our Lord being sacrificed unto death by allowing them to be sacrificed unto death.
God does allow us to consume their bodies for food - since the 'fall.' IOW, their death was to provide something good for man's nourishment and was not done in vain.
Animals are under the same curse as men ... IOW, they die anyway, whether we kill them for food or just allow them to die of old age.
Our divine Lord Jesus ate fish and meat... so he has the best understanding of what is acceptable regarding animals and food.
I love animals!
People should be held accountable for the torture and neglect of animals, but certainly not as severe as the consequences for harming humans.
One good reason for holding them accountable is that they may have personality disorders, which may ultimately become a threat to human beings - or - they may need help for their "hoarder-type" disorders.
I do think that people can over-do the laws and consequences for protecting animals, so a healthy balance of rights is important.
... and I must laugh when I think about of 19 year old kitty, who died not too many years ago. I had not been around vets who did dentistry for most of her life and had never thought of taking a pet for dental check ups. In her later years I became afraid to take her to the vet because I was concerned that I was going to get into some sort of terrible situation for not ever having had dental work done on her.
I don't think people should be fearful of the law because of any sort of authoritative pet patrol ... but that the pet patrol people should be more for educating people ... or for simply removing abused pets from incapable or mean owners.
He did allow for them to be the foreshadow of our Lord being sacrificed unto death by allowing them to be sacrificed unto death.
God does allow us to consume their bodies for food - since the 'fall.' IOW, their death was to provide something good for man's nourishment and was not done in vain.
Animals are under the same curse as men ... IOW, they die anyway, whether we kill them for food or just allow them to die of old age.
Our divine Lord Jesus ate fish and meat... so he has the best understanding of what is acceptable regarding animals and food.
I love animals!
lightbringer
TOL Subscriber
Veal? :jawdrop:
Baby calf killer! :rotfl:
Treat'em right, fatten'em up, kill'em humanely...the Bar-B-Que grill is ready. :nori:
I look at animals this way. They are a blessing from God for us. They were not the appropriate 'help meet' for mankind ... so female was manifested out of Adam for that purpose.
Here are some questions to ponder:
Is it humane to allow a lion to kill a gazelle and eat it while its still alive? Or a cat to eat a mouse? etc.
With the increase in multiplying and reproducing that came along at the same time as the curse of death upon the world (Gen.3), would it be humane to allow animals to reproduce without any controls regarding it and then watch them stave to death?
Is it wise and humane to regard animals so highly that we would watch people starve while watching the protected cattle roam among the starving?
Is it logical for men to highly regard the life of an animal while turning a blind eye to the genocide taking place within the womb of women today?
With the increase in multiplying and reproducing that came along at the same time as the curse of death upon the world, would it be humane to allow animals to reproduce without any control upon the earth and then see them stave to death?
There has to be a logical humane balance... and allowing men to eat animals may very well be one humane solution.
But I do believe that caring for animals while alive ... and humanely killing them is important to me ... and to God.
God even made a few rules about such things ... one I remember is that if a calf is cooked ... do not boil it in it's mother's milk. Even the thought of that just seemed too inhumane to God.
Personally, I have trouble dipping chicken livers into beaten eggs before seasoning and flouring them. I admit that if I personally had to kill an animal for my food ... I'd eat less meat.
Here are some questions to ponder:
Is it humane to allow a lion to kill a gazelle and eat it while its still alive? Or a cat to eat a mouse? etc.
With the increase in multiplying and reproducing that came along at the same time as the curse of death upon the world (Gen.3), would it be humane to allow animals to reproduce without any controls regarding it and then watch them stave to death?
Is it wise and humane to regard animals so highly that we would watch people starve while watching the protected cattle roam among the starving?
Is it logical for men to highly regard the life of an animal while turning a blind eye to the genocide taking place within the womb of women today?
With the increase in multiplying and reproducing that came along at the same time as the curse of death upon the world, would it be humane to allow animals to reproduce without any control upon the earth and then see them stave to death?
There has to be a logical humane balance... and allowing men to eat animals may very well be one humane solution.
But I do believe that caring for animals while alive ... and humanely killing them is important to me ... and to God.
God even made a few rules about such things ... one I remember is that if a calf is cooked ... do not boil it in it's mother's milk. Even the thought of that just seemed too inhumane to God.
Personally, I have trouble dipping chicken livers into beaten eggs before seasoning and flouring them. I admit that if I personally had to kill an animal for my food ... I'd eat less meat.
So then the Bible contradicts itself. Ok.
He created them to show his glory. They are a part of the creation.
But he put them in our hand to use as we please. And he says to be smart about it. You won't get much out of a cow you eat if you starved it for 10 years first.
I think she is stupid! Shooting it with a 22, what a little dope she must be, her and her wacky, whatever one shall call them!:madmad:
Keep in mind that animals die anyway ... and what makes us different from other creatures/animals is that we humans were created in the likeness of God. Killing a human is an assault on the original image of God. God created us for a higher purpose than he did animals. There was no animal that was a appropriate HELP MEET for man ... so woman was taken out of man for his special partner.
As much as I love animals and won't even smush a bug ... I understand that they are not equal with humanity.
Sure God does not want us to be cruel and inhumane to animals, but he does allow us to eat them - since they now (since the fall) die naturally anyway.
God will even hold an animal accountable for killing a person ... by demanding that its life should be taken.
But if a person steals or kills an animal belonging to someone else ... he is only required to provide reasonible retribution to its owner. The man is not killed for killing or steal the animal.
As much as I love animals and won't even smush a bug ... I understand that they are not equal with humanity.
Sure God does not want us to be cruel and inhumane to animals, but he does allow us to eat them - since they now (since the fall) die naturally anyway.
God will even hold an animal accountable for killing a person ... by demanding that its life should be taken.
But if a person steals or kills an animal belonging to someone else ... he is only required to provide reasonible retribution to its owner. The man is not killed for killing or steal the animal.
How?
Lon
Well-known member
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal,
but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.
Mat 6:26 Look at the birds in the sky: They do not sow, or reap, or gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them.
Mat 10:29 Aren't two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will.
Act 10:11 He saw heaven opened and an object something like a large sheet descending, being let down to earth by its four corners.
Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth and wild birds.
Act 10:13 Then a voice said to him, "Get up, Peter; slaughter and eat!"
Gen 3:21 The LORD God made garments from skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
My take: Use, don't abuse.
but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.
Mat 6:26 Look at the birds in the sky: They do not sow, or reap, or gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them.
Mat 10:29 Aren't two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will.
Act 10:11 He saw heaven opened and an object something like a large sheet descending, being let down to earth by its four corners.
Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth and wild birds.
Act 10:13 Then a voice said to him, "Get up, Peter; slaughter and eat!"
Gen 3:21 The LORD God made garments from skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
My take: Use, don't abuse.
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