To be Justified by Faith is to be Justified by Christ

[Robert Pate]

WOW. You're shown to be a fudger at best and a liar at worst and THAT is all that you have to say.

Robert, you just another religious zealous willing to lie to make scripture fit your story instead of letting scripture TELL the story.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Actually I am quite proud of myself. You need to face up to the truth.

The Bible is an honest book, it does not hide the sins or the mistakes of God's people.

FACT: James sent men to spy on Peter and Banabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles, Galatians 2:12.

FACT: James wanted to circumcise Gentile believers, Acts 15:1.

FACT: James imposes the law on the Gentile believers, Acts 15:20, 21.

 

[Right Divider]

Actually I am quite proud of myself. You need to face up to the truth.

The Bible is an honest book, it does not hide the sins or the mistakes of God's people.

FACT: James sent men to spy on Peter and Banabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles, Galatians 2:12.

FACT: James wanted to circumcise Gentile believers, Acts 15:1.

FACT: James imposes the law on the Gentile believers, Acts 15:20, 21.

Lies each and every one. Any you're proud of LYING. That's quite the "Christian" belief system you have there RP.

FACT: It does NOT say that James sent them. YOU made that up, you liar.

FACT: Again, James did NOT say that and James did NOT authorize anyone else to either:

Act 15:24 KJV Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:​

FACT: Acts 15:20-21 is NOT a "law" like you would like it to be.

The Gentiles in ANTIOCH were NOT under ANY authority from JERUSALEM. They were PAUL's disciples and the FIRST one's call CHRISTIANS.

Act 11:26 KJV And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.​

Stop your lying, you give Christ a bad name.

 

[Bradley D]

I understand that, according to what you say above, "ONLY belief in Christ and his sacrifice can get us saved." If that's so, what about repentance? We don't need to repent to be saved? If that's so, you are implying that Prophet Isaiah was lying when he said that the only way to get things right with the Lord so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must repent to be saved.(Isa. 1:18,19)

Now, even if you change your mind and add repentance to belief in Christ alone, what about the Prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel who both declared that no one can die for the sins of another? (Jer. 31:30 and Ezek. 18:20)

BTW, your quote of James 2:25 says nothing about ONLY belief in Christ and his sacrifice can get us saved. James was a Jew and I doubt that he was the author of that message.

It was sorrow of my sins that brought me to Christ. Therefore, I do believe that repentance is very important. I believe that repentance is a change in one's life brought about by acceptance of God and Christ. That change reflects God's commandments.

If no one can die for the sins of another. Why did they have animal sacrifices?

As for James being the author of the message. I still believe that James was the author. There is a belief that James was the half brother of Jesus.

 

[Robert Pate]

Lies each and every one. Any you're proud of LYING. That's quite the "Christian" belief system you have there RP.

FACT: It does NOT say that James sent them. YOU made that up, you liar.

FACT: Again, James did NOT say that and James did NOT authorize anyone else to either:

Act 15:24 KJV Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:​

FACT: Acts 15:20-21 is NOT a "law" like you would like it to be.

The Gentiles in ANTIOCH were NOT under ANY authority from JERUSALEM. They were PAUL's disciples and the FIRST one's call CHRISTIANS.

Act 11:26 KJV And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.​

Stop your lying, you give Christ a bad name.

It is very apparent that you like to find people that disagree with you so that you can condemn them and call them liars.

Wht don't you just add all Forum members to your list?

What does... "Certain men came from James" mean to You?

What does... "Certain men came down from Judea" mean to you?

Why did James say..."For Moses of old time has..."

I think that you are really, really dense.

 

[Right Divider]

It is very apparent that you like to find people that disagree with you so that you can condemn them and call them liars.

You're wrong. I only call liars, liars. If you don't like it stop LYING!

Wht don't you just add all Forum members to your list?

Because they're not all confused liars, like you.

What does... "Certain men came from James" mean to You?

What does... "Certain men came down from Judea" mean to you?

Why did James say..."For Moses of old time has..."

I think that you are really, really dense.

James SPECIFICALLY says that HE gave them NO SUCH INSTRUCTIONS to tell the Gentiles that they NEEDED TO BE CIRCUMCISED.

How stupid do you have to be to continue to claim the EXACT OPPOSITE?

Act 15:24 KJV Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
​

So quit telling this BIG FIB of yours and you won't get called a LIAR!

P.S. I suppose that YOU think that "certain which WENT OUT FROM US" means that James "sent them"?

 

[jamie]

A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:21.

Why didn't you read verse 19 where James said, "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God." (Acts 15:19)

For those wanting to keep the law James said, "For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." (Acts 15:21)

In other words, James suggested that those who wanted to keep the law go a synagogue where Moses' law is taught. The decision of James was not to keep the Law of Moses nor to command circumcision.

 

[Right Divider]

Why didn't you read verse 19 where James said, "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God." (Acts 15:19)

For those wanting to keep the law James said, "For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." (Acts 15:21)

In other words, James suggested that those who wanted to keep the law go a synagogue where Moses' law is taught. The decision of James was not to keep the Law of Moses nor to command circumcision.

Only for Gentiles.

Act 21:17-21 KJV And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. (18) And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. (19) And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. (20) And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: (21) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
​

 

[Robert Pate]

You're wrong. I only call liars, liars. If you don't like it stop LYING!


Because they're not all confused liars, like you.


James SPECIFICALLY says that HE gave them NO SUCH INSTRUCTIONS to tell the Gentiles that they NEEDED TO BE CIRCUMCISED.

How stupid do you have to be to continue to claim the EXACT OPPOSITE?

Act 15:24 KJV Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
​

So quit telling this BIG FIB of yours and you won't get called a LIAR!

P.S. I suppose that YOU think that "certain which WENT OUT FROM US" means that James "sent them"?

You seem to think that by your many, big, colorful and numerous words you will be heard.

Before Jesus ascended into heaven he told the apostles to... "Go into all of the world preach the Gospel". Instead of going into the world to preach the Gospel, James went to Jerusalem and started a church.

Its just as well, because at that time James didn't understand the Gospel and justification by faith.

Acts 15:24 is after the fact. After James and others heard about all of the miracles that God had been doing through the Gentiles, Acts 15:12, the Gentiles were accepted into the church there in Jerusalem. Up until then Gentiles had to be circumcised to become members of the church there in Jerusalem. It was because of Paul's and Barnabas's opposition against James and his Jewish religion that the Gentiles were accepted into the church there in Jerusalem.

The fact that there was contention between James and Paul should tell you that James had some doctrine problems.

You need to stop calling people names. It is very apparent that you think that you are special. You try to raise yourself up and do so by putting others down. Not very Christian.

 

[Robert Pate]

Why didn't you read verse 19 where James said, "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God." (Acts 15:19)

For those wanting to keep the law James said, "For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." (Acts 15:21)

In other words, James suggested that those who wanted to keep the law go a synagogue where Moses' law is taught. The decision of James was not to keep the Law of Moses nor to command circumcision.

Acts 15:19 is after the big disputation as to whether or not Gentiles should be circumcised. See Acts 15:4-19.

There was contention between the doctrine of Paul and the doctrine of James, Galatians 2:11, 12. Peter and Barnabas got caught in the middle of it.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Did you ever noticed how James starts his epistle?

Jas 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
​

James was one of those that lived under the law and that is exactly what he preached.

You can't have it both ways. James says keep the law. Paul says that we are not under the law.

James preached Abraham's obedience AFTER his circumcision.
Paul preached Abraham's faith BEFORE his circumcision.

Rom 4:9-13 KJV Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (10) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (11) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.​

During the dispensation of the grace of God, works have no saving value whatsoever. Works come after salvation, just like Paul says:

Eph 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.​

Good post as usual.

 

[Right Divider]

You seem to think that by your many, big, colorful and numerous words you will be heard.

Yes, because you are the one that keeps ignoring the fact and say the exactly opposite of what scripture shows.

Before Jesus ascended into heaven he told the apostles to... "Go into all of the world preach the Gospel". Instead of going into the world to preach the Gospel, James went to Jerusalem and started a church.

It's no wonder you're so ignorant. Where did you get this story?

James "started" a church? Really?

There was ALREADY a church in Jerusalem. The 12 apostles of the Lamb (which James was NOT a part of) were told by Christ to BEGIN in Jerusalem.

Luk 24:46-49 KJV And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (48) And ye are witnesses of these things. (49) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.​

And there were believing Jews (and proselytes) being ADDED to this church:

Act 2:47 KJV Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
​

You should start believing God's Word.

Its just as well, because at that time James didn't understand the Gospel and justification by faith.

But he certainly understood the gospel of the kingdom which is what the 12 twelve had been preaching for years.

Acts 15:24 is after the fact. After James and others heard about all of the miracles that God had been doing through the Gentiles, Acts 15:12, the Gentiles were accepted into the church there in Jerusalem.

Acts 15 has NOTHING to do with Gentiles in the church at Jerusalem.

It was about "certain men" that went to ANTIOCH (which is NOT in Israel) and them teaching Gentiles THERE that they needed to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.

Up until then Gentiles had to be circumcised to become members of the church there in Jerusalem. It was because of Paul's and Barnabas's opposition against James and his Jewish religion that the Gentiles were accepted into the church there in Jerusalem.

Where did you get this bogus story? It's certainly NOT from the Bible.

The fact that there was contention between James and Paul should tell you that James had some doctrine problems.

Paul said NOTHING about problems with doctrine WITHIN the church that was at Jerusalem.

You need to stop calling people names. It is very apparent that you think that you are special. You try to raise yourself up and do so by putting others down. Not very Christian.

No, RP... you are wrong that one too.

What is not very Christian is your continued, proud, bold-faced LIES.

P.S. It's NOT name calling to call a liar a liar.

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes, because you are the one that keeps ignoring the fact and say the exactly opposite of what scripture shows.


It's no wonder you're so ignorant. Where did you get this story?

James "started" a church? Really?

There was ALREADY a church in Jerusalem. The 12 apostles of the Lamb (which James was NOT a part of) were told by Christ to BEGIN in Jerusalem.

Luk 24:46-49 KJV And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (48) And ye are witnesses of these things. (49) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.​

And there were believing Jews (and proselytes) being ADDED to this church:

Act 2:47 KJV Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
​

You should start believing God's Word.


But he certainly understood the gospel of the kingdom which is what the 12 twelve had been preaching for years.


Acts 15 has NOTHING to do with Gentiles in the church at Jerusalem.

It was about "certain men" that went to ANTIOCH (which is NOT in Israel) and them teaching Gentiles THERE that they needed to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.


Where did you get this bogus story? It's certainly NOT from the Bible.


Paul said NOTHING about problems with doctrine WITHIN the church that was at Jerusalem.


No, RP... you are wrong that one too.

What is not very Christian is your continued, proud, bold-faced LIES.

P.S. It's NOT name calling to call a liar a liar.

Nowhere does it say Jesus told the apostles to start a church in Jerusalem.

Acts 15 has everything to do with Gentiles in Jerusalem. James wanted to circumcise them, Acts 15:1.

What do you think all of the fuss was about in Acts 15:7.

You do seem to be very dense.

 

[Right Divider]

Nowhere does it say Jesus told the apostles to start a church in Jerusalem.

Nowhere does it say that James started a church anywhere.

Jesus started a church in Jerusalem with HIS 12 chosen apostles that will judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

This church was ADDED to daily, just like Acts 2 describes.

This ALL happened before James got involved. James was NOT one of the 12!

Acts 15 has everything to do with Gentiles in Jerusalem. James wanted to circumcise them, Acts 15:1.

Are you really this dense?

Acts 15 is about what was going on in ANTIOCH.

James makes is CLEAR (for about the third time that I have to tell you this) what HE did NOT give them instructions to tell them this ("...to whom we gave no such commandment..." Acts 15:24).

What do you think all of the fuss was about in Acts 15:7.

You do seem to be very dense.

Acts 15:7 is NOT what started the Acts 15 ISSUE.

Peter's going to Cornelius was a SPECIAL case as shown clearly in Acts 10 (which BTW, is AFTER Paul's calling by Christ on the road to Damascus).

What started the ACTS 15 ISSUE was that "certain men" which did NOT have instructions from THOSE in Jerusalem were telling GENTILES in the church at ANTIOCH that they needed to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.

THAT is what the dispute was about.

 

[Robert Pate]

Nowhere does it say that James started a church anywhere.

Jesus started a church in Jerusalem with HIS 12 chosen apostles that will judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

This church was ADDED to daily, just like Acts 2 describes.

This ALL happened before James got involved. James was NOT one of the 12!


Are you really this dense?

Acts 15 is about what was going on in ANTIOCH.

James makes is CLEAR (for about the third time that I have to tell you this) what HE did NOT give them instructions to tell them this ("...to whom we gave no such commandment..." Acts 15:24).


Acts 15:7 is NOT what started the Acts 15 ISSUE.

Peter's going to Cornelius was a SPECIAL case as shown clearly in Acts 10 (which BTW, is AFTER Paul's calling by Christ on the road to Damascus).

What started the ACTS 15 ISSUE was that "certain men" which did NOT have instructions from THOSE in Jerusalem were telling GENTILES in the church at ANTIOCH that they needed to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.

THAT is what the dispute was about.

There is a diffident problem with James that you don't want to address.

Why did James send men to spy on Peter and Barnabas, Galatians 2:12, 13. Could it be to see if Peter and Barnabas were eating with Gentiles?

James was the head of the church in Jerusalem, Acts 21:18. James and his bunch were all zealous of the law, Acts 20:21, Not the Gospel, the law.

 

[Right Divider]

There is a diffident problem with James that you don't want to address.

Why did James send men to spy on Peter and Barnabas, Galatians 2:12, 13. Could it be to see if Peter and Barnabas were eating with Gentiles?

James was the head of the church in Jerusalem, Acts 21:18. James and his bunch were all zealous of the law, Acts 20:21, Not the Gospel, the law.

This is because you reject the FACT that God does NOT change a man's calling.

Where does scripture condemn those in Acts 20-21 that are zealous of the law? Even PAUL says NOTHING about it right there!

 

[Robert Pate]

This is because you reject the FACT that God does NOT change a man's calling.

Where does scripture condemn those in Acts 20-21 that are zealous of the law? Even PAUL says NOTHING about it right there!

Nor does God's word hide the sins and mistakes of God's people.

You see nothing wrong with Christians being zealous of the law?

Poor Paul is trying to be "all things" to all men and it all most gets him killed, Acts 21:32.

 

[Right Divider]

Nor does God's word hide the sins and mistakes of God's people.

So you think that God leaves James in the Bible for what reason?

You see nothing wrong with Christians being zealous of the law?

The first ones called Christians were NOT in Jerusalem, they were in ANTIOCH (Acts 11:26).

Act 11:26 KJV And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.​

You don't suppose God put THAT in the Bible for a reason, do you?

The ones in Jerusalem were under the law of Moses as Jesus taught them! They were called Jews (and proselytes).

Poor Paul is trying to be "all things" to all men and it all most gets him killed, Acts 21:32.

Is there a point here? Almost everyone that God sends gets killed by unbelievers.

 

[Robert Pate]

So you think that God leaves James in the Bible for what reason?


The first ones called Christians were NOT in Jerusalem, they were in ANTIOCH (Acts 11:26).

Act 11:26 KJV And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.​

You don't suppose God put THAT in the Bible for a reason, do you?

The ones in Jerusalem were under the law of Moses as Jesus taught them! They were called Jews (and proselytes).


Is there a point here? Almost everyone that God sends gets killed by unbelievers.

James is in the Bible so that we can understand that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was not accepted by many and not even some of the apostles. Peter was as screwed up as James. Paul had to straighten him out also, Galatians 2:11 also Galatians 2:14.

The Jews may have been under the law of Moses, but that was not a good thing. It was a bad thing. Paul was continually trying to bring them to faith in Christ and his Gospel, not the law.

The book of Acts is about the Gospel going out into the world, but with much opposition.

 

[Interplanner]

Faith can't be a dead corpse.

 

[Right Divider]

James is in the Bible so that we can understand that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was not accepted by many and not even some of the apostles. Peter was as screwed up as James. Paul had to straighten him out also, Galatians 2:11 also Galatians 2:14.

That's a ridiculous theory with NOT scriptural support.

Why did Paul NOT correct James and the gang the they bragged about ALL of the THOUSANDS of Jews that were all zealous of the law?

Not ONE little peep from Paul about that being wrong. Please explain how Paul did NOT correct them.

The Jews may have been under the law of Moses, but that was not a good thing. It was a bad thing. Paul was continually trying to bring them to faith in Christ and his Gospel, not the law.

And yet when Jesus was with them He told them to KEEP the law and there is no scripture that Jesus ever told them otherwise.

The book of Acts is about the Gospel going out into the world, but with much opposition.

No, actually the book of Acts is the story of the downfall of Israel due to their continual rejection of their Messiah.

This is a continuation of Luke's accounts in his other book.

Act 1:1-3 KJV The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, (2) Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: (3) To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
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